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View Poll Results: Will Donald Trump be Impeached or will this blowback on Biden
Orange Trump bad. Trump gone. 84 32.43%
Trump Trump-umphant. 88 33.98%
Inclusive 18 6.95%
Biden C4'd to oblivion. 75 28.96%
Biden grows in strength and gets shot in the arm for nomination. 10 3.86%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 259. You may not vote on this poll

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      02-10-2020, 01:30 PM   #7217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
They rushed because Trump was trying to cheat to win in 2020.
"Cheat" is funny word in this context. Rooty Tooty Rudy is still going to smear Biden with enough "maybe" to put Biden in the same league as Hillary was in 2016, i.e. would-be voters will have sufficient reason not to trust him should they want it. Was "crooked Hillary" also "cheating"?
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      02-10-2020, 01:37 PM   #7218
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"Cheat" is funny word in this context. Rooty Tooty Rudy is still going to smear Biden with enough "maybe" to put Biden in the same league as Hillary was in 2016, i.e. would-be voters will have sufficient reason not to trust him should they want it. Was "crooked Hillary" also "cheating"?
You look to much in the past......the real question is: What does Mayor Pete need to be investigated for?

2 grooms on the wedding cake?
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      02-10-2020, 01:44 PM   #7219
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Originally Posted by wdb View Post
"Cheat" is funny word in this context. Rooty Tooty Rudy is still going to smear Biden with enough "maybe" to put Biden in the same league as Hillary was in 2016, i.e. would-be voters will have sufficient reason not to trust him should they want it. Was "crooked Hillary" also "cheating"?
Biden is done as a candidate, if I'm a betting man.
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      02-10-2020, 03:07 PM   #7220
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Not going down this road...
If the case was strong, why were additional witnesses required at the 11th hour? Why does the case hinge on Bolton's testimony?
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      02-10-2020, 03:13 PM   #7221
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There were a lot more witnesses from the administration in addition to Bolton that needed to be called who could either corroborate his testimony or deny it. Trump administration denied and attempted to block subpoena requests from the House and the Senate could have likely circumvented the obstruction.
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      02-10-2020, 03:17 PM   #7222
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Or congress could have done it themselves instead of ramming thru because was crap case anywaynand objective was to throw shade.
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      02-10-2020, 03:20 PM   #7223
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Quote:
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There were a lot more witnesses from the administration in addition to Bolton that needed to be called who could either corroborate his testimony or deny it. Trump administration denied and attempted to block subpoena requests from the House and the Senate could have likely circumvented the obstruction.
Happy VD week!!

The House had every opportunity to call any witness they wanted, even the ones in the executive branch. And Mr. Trump denying subpoena requests is THE EXACT SAME PRIVILEGE exercised by Mr. Obama and nearly every other president who ever took the oath of office. It isn't wrong or illegal, it's in The Constitution.

Were you up in arms when Mr. Obama ignored subpoena requests from The House during his presidency? This isn't a rhetorical question.
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      02-10-2020, 03:35 PM   #7224
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Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
If the case was strong, why were additional witnesses required at the 11th hour? Why does the case hinge on Bolton's testimony?
They weren't required - Bolton suddenly was willing to testify and was a first-hand witness to much of this scheme. I thought everyone was super eager to see Hunter on the stand... turns out Bolton would have probably been very effective while Hunter would have just been a showpiece.

You guys are probably right though... it's likely a vast government conspiracy to take down Trump. The witnesses all gathered together in secret to plot his downfall. Decorated and respected public servants risked their entire careers to make something up about Trump. Forget every other piece of evidence corroborating the "drug deal" and the rather interesting timeline of the funds bring thrown out the door the second the scheme was revealed publicly. Forget that it looks *exactly* like what has been alleged. It's probably all above board and wasn't at all the work of an insanely insecure president using his power to stop congress-approved funds as leverage for something that would benefit him politically while completely circumventing our own agencies. Nothing to see here...
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      02-10-2020, 03:41 PM   #7225
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Happy VD week!!



Were you up in arms when Mr. Obama ignored subpoena requests from The House during his presidency? This isn't a rhetorical question.
Sure it is. Obama was never impeached. He didn't attempt to extort a nation dependent on our aid.
Imagine the outrage if Obama had done this to, say.....Israel?
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      02-10-2020, 03:42 PM   #7226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
They weren't required - Bolton suddenly was willing to testify and was a first-hand witness to much of this scheme. I thought everyone was super eager to see Hunter on the stand... turns out Bolton would have probably been very effective while Hunter would have just been a showpiece.
Only thing he cares about is money and selling his book. That whole bullshit 'story' that CNN broke the story about Bolton having dirt he now wants to share.

Why does he not come out and say it now? What is he waiting for? Oh, because it is in his 'tell all' book.

PAHlease.
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      02-10-2020, 03:46 PM   #7227
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Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Only thing he cares about is money and selling his book. That whole bullshit 'story' that CNN broke the story about Bolton having dirt he now wants to share.

Why does he not come out and say it now? What is he waiting for? Oh, because it is in his 'tell all' book.

PAHlease.
That's a pretty big gamble. If they had allowed witnesses, which was a 50/50 shot, he could have had to make that case under oath. Forget the book deal. That was an entirely possible outcome of his coming forward.
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      02-10-2020, 03:47 PM   #7228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
If the case was strong, why were additional witnesses required at the 11th hour? Why does the case hinge on Bolton's testimony?
They weren't required - Bolton suddenly was willing to testify and was a first-hand witness to much of this scheme. I thought everyone was super eager to see Hunter on the stand... turns out Bolton would have probably been very effective while Hunter would have just been a showpiece.
That may very well have been the case, but it doesn't answer the question of why additional witnesses were required to substantiate an already winning argument. Even before the Bolton revelation, the Democrats were decrying the republicans for not calling for more witnesses. But why would additional
witnesses be required, for an already winning case? At the end of this, the Democrats faulted the absence of any additional witnesses as the reason for why they didn't win.

The burden of proof was with the Democrats, they didn't meet the burden, so they either shouldn't have brought the case to begin with or not expected the defense to make the for them. The fact that they were so convinced of it being a winning case that they brought it just indicates to me they were grasping at straws trying to create the appearance of impropriety by the republicans when they lost.
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      02-10-2020, 03:51 PM   #7229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
That may very well have been the case, but it doesn't answer the question of why additional witnesses were required to substantiate an already winning argument. Even before the Bolton revelation, the Democrats were decrying the republicans for not calling for more witnesses. But why would additional
witnesses be required, for an already winning case? At the end of this, the Democrats faulted the absence of any additional witnesses as the reason for why they didn't win.

The burden of proof was with the Democrats, they didn't meet the burden, so they either shouldn't have brought the case to begin with or not expected the defense to make the for them. The fact that they were so convinced of it being a winning case that they brought it just indicates to me they were grasping at straws trying to create the appearance of impropriety by the republicans when they lost.
Let's be honest... regardless of the amount of proof provided, the senate was always going to acquit. It didn't matter how strong the case was.
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      02-10-2020, 04:12 PM   #7230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Sure it is. Obama was never impeached. He didn't attempt to extort a nation dependent on our aid.
Imagine the outrage if Obama had done this to, say.....Israel?
Are you deliberately being obtuse?
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      02-10-2020, 04:17 PM   #7231
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If Bolton had the nail in the coffin so to speak. The president can be impeached again for the same reason. Double jeopardy does not apply.

His testimony is irrelevant as is the fact it his information can only be found in his book.
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      02-10-2020, 04:18 PM   #7232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Sure it is. Obama was never impeached. He didn't attempt to extort a nation dependent on our aid.
Imagine the outrage if Obama had done this to, say.....Israel?
Obama had a more reasonable and rational house at the time, unlike Trump where the house is filled with irrational, belligerent, overly emotional, tamper tantrums prone, and blantly partisan house.
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      02-10-2020, 04:21 PM   #7233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Blood View Post
Sure it is. Obama was never impeached. He didn't attempt to extort a nation dependent on our aid.
Imagine the outrage if Obama had done this to, say.....Israel?
Obama had a more reasonable and rational house at the time, unlike Trump where the house is filled with irrational, belligerent, overly emotional, tamper tantrums prone, and blantly partisan house.
Wrong.
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      02-10-2020, 04:28 PM   #7234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Let's be honest... regardless of the amount of proof provided, the House was always going to Impeach. It didn't matter how strong the case was.
FIFY

They started before he was sworn in, and 19 minutes into his Presidency it was announced that the the process of impeachment has begun
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      02-10-2020, 04:38 PM   #7235
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FIFY

They started before he was sworn in, and 19 minutes into his Presidency it was announced that the the process of impeachment has begun
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      02-10-2020, 05:05 PM   #7236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfJericho View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by e90335e36m3 View Post
That may very well have been the case, but it doesn't answer the question of why additional witnesses were required to substantiate an already winning argument. Even before the Bolton revelation, the Democrats were decrying the republicans for not calling for more witnesses. But why would additional
witnesses be required, for an already winning case? At the end of this, the Democrats faulted the absence of any additional witnesses as the reason for why they didn't win.

The burden of proof was with the Democrats, they didn't meet the burden, so they either shouldn't have brought the case to begin with or not expected the defense to make the for them. The fact that they were so convinced of it being a winning case that they brought it just indicates to me they were grasping at straws trying to create the appearance of impropriety by the republicans when they lost.
Let's be honest... regardless of the amount of proof provided, the senate was always going to acquit. It didn't matter how strong the case was.
Agreed with you but it doesn't answer the question. The problem is now this charade is in the court of public opinion and the tide has turned against the Democrats precisely for this reason.

A reasonable person/trier of fact concludes that when you bring something as serious as impeachment your case is properly substantiated. In this case the Democrats toured it as such, they screamed it through every media outlet. When push came to shove they basically said, Republicans make the case for us.

To me the conclusion is, the Democrats are either incompetent or they are liars, or both. Since we have enough instances dating back to Trump's election that Democrats have done everything possible to subvert the will of the people, how can any reasonable person trust them?

You'll have people at both ends of the spectrum arguing ad nauseam that the other side is full of it. In this particular situation I'd consider myself an independent. I subscribe to a conservative ideology generally, but strongly dislike Trump. He shouldn't be representing us as a people.

Notwithstanding, in my opinion (which I believe is a reasonable one), our unpresidential President was undermined by elected officials since day 1. He was digging his own grave and the people would've seen him for what he was, but for the Democrats and mass media's attempt to overturn the 2016 election for absolutely asinine reasons for 4 years!!!

Had the Democratic Party not turned to a bunch of radicalized extremist liars, I would have voted for someone on their side.

Now I will vote for Trump because I genuinely believe he is the lesser of the two evils.
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      02-10-2020, 05:19 PM   #7237
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Did they? Why?

It felt like it took way longer than it should to get to the senate and get shot down. But maybe that is just me.
the vote to impeach was quick. they then sat on the articles for a little bit.

the vote to impeach was Dec 18. they didnt send the article to the senate till mid january.

the whistleblower came out in mid sept. so 3 month 'investigation", 1 month trying to get their ducks in a row for the senate.

Shit, the mueller report took longer than 3 months.

They rushed because they needed this to happen prior to campaigns starting the beginning of this year. Cant campaign and claim a victory by impeaching trump, when youre still investigating.
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      02-10-2020, 05:35 PM   #7238
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Quote:
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There were a lot more witnesses from the administration in addition to Bolton that needed to be called who could either corroborate his testimony or deny it. Trump administration denied and attempted to block subpoena requests from the House and the Senate could have likely circumvented the obstruction.
that is how the process goes. the house subpeonas everyone they want, some come in without a fight, some deny and it goes to the courts and they decide if its a valid subpeona or not.

the house didnt want to risk this lasting deep into the campaign trail, or worst case, past the election, so they went to the senate with what they told us was a strong case. Once it was apparent it wasnt that strong, and Bolton's book transcripts became public, they threw the hail mary for new witnesses.
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