BMW Z4 M Brake Cooling Kit

[Westersund]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

I'm in, as I now have a car to put these on again!

Nice! The first kit is soon done. Unless the print fails somehow I will send it tomorrow.

[Barryb97]

Interested. Sent PM.

[Westersund]

So several prints have failed, probably due to the size of the ducts and the fluctuation of heat causing the prints to lift in the same corner. The new printer coming in uses another type of base plate which is better and the print won't lift and get ruined. We've never had this problem with the smaller ducts, trail and error I guess.

[Finnegan]

I expected the few odd issues. No problem, keep us updated. The efforts are appreciated!

Originally Posted by Westersund

So several prints have failed, probably due to the size of the ducts and the fluctuation of heat causing the prints to lift in the same corner. The new printer coming in uses another type of base plate which is better and the print won't lift and get ruined. We've never had this problem with the smaller ducts, trail and error I guess.

[Westersund]

The new printer arrived today and is already printing, I will keep you updated during the weekend.

[Westersund]

So we've had some issues with the new printer, the heat bed/base plate isn't 100% straight. But we've spent many hours fine tuning it to get the desired result, it's looking promising now.

[eggman51]

I'm not in a hurry for mine, so take your time to get it right from my perspective.

Cheers,
Eamonn

[Westersund]

Originally Posted by eggman51

I'm not in a hurry for mine, so take your time to get it right from my perspective.

Cheers,
Eamonn

Thank you! A little bit more trouble with this one than expected. As I said before, never had any issues with any of the other kits before. It's most likely the size of this that makes it troublesome.

[Westersund]

Checked on the print an hour ago and it's looking promising, half a cooling duct have been printed without any lifting from the base plate. Seems like the fine tuning is paying off, but we're not out of the woods yet! Hope I didn't jinx it.

[Westersund]

So the print turned out eh... not 100%. It's possible to use it but it needs some work to get the finish were I want it. However it's important to know that a 3D printed part will never be perfect, it's not cast or thermoformed. But this print didn't live up to my requirements. Considering the size of the duct one option is to apply a layer of epoxy resin on the backside of the duct to reinforce it more, shouldn't be needed but it can applied free of charge. If anyone wants it.

And about that base plate/heat bed that isn't straight, we've ordered a new CNC milled base plate from Germany that is thicker and guaranteed 100% straight. That will help a ton as well. I'll keep you posted.

[Residentj3553]

Originally Posted by Westersund

So the print turned out eh... not 100%. It's possible to use it but it needs some work to get the finish were I want it. However it's important to know that a 3D printed part will never be perfect, it's not cast or thermoformed. But this print didn't live up to my requirements. Considering the size of the duct one option is to apply a layer of epoxy resin on the backside of the duct to reinforce it more, shouldn't be needed but it can applied free of charge. If anyone wants it.

And about that base plate/heat bed that isn't straight, we've ordered a new CNC milled base plate from Germany that is thicker and guaranteed 100% straight. That will help a ton as well. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the update buddy!
Keep it going!

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Westersund

or thermoformed.

Wouldnt having it thermoformed be an option (external company).
I mean can you thermoform on a 3d printed mold? (heatwise)

Thermoforming is a very inexpensive process, also in low numbers if a 3d printed mold works (manual termoforming machine), there are lots of companies around that do that.

You already have the computer model measurements, for thermoforming it just needs little alterations: make a negative copy with maybe some alterations required by the process.

[eggman51]

There is a community member on here - great guy and local to me - named ZeD4Mr who has a line on carbon fiber manufacturing. I dunno if it's in any way feasible to see if they can be done in carbon fiber.

That said, I'm happy to wait, and happy to recognize that you are doing R&D for a small niche market and shit happens... if it takes more time or if you identify reasonable additional costs are required to meet your original quality standards, I think we can all be adults about that

eg

[Residentj3553]

Originally Posted by eggman51

There is a community member on here - great guy and local to me - named ZeD4Mr who has a line on carbon fiber manufacturing. I dunno if it's in any way feasible to see if they can be done in carbon fiber.

That said, I'm happy to wait, and happy to recognize that you are doing R&D for a small niche market and shit happens... if it takes more time or if you identify reasonable additional costs are required to meet your original quality standards, I think we can all be adults about that

eg

+1
We're all just appreciative of you guys giving us these options!

[Westersund]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Wouldnt having it thermoformed be an option (external company).
I mean can you thermoform on a 3d printed mold? (heatwise)

Thermoforming is a very inexpensive process, also in low numbers if a 3d printed mold works (manual termoforming machine), there are lots of companies around that do that.

You already have the computer model measurements, for thermoforming it just needs little alterations: make a negative copy with maybe some alterations required by the process.

I don't know what kind of temperature used with thermoforming, but I believe the 3D printed ducts would go too soft to keep it's shape 100%. Making CNC milled tools/negatives is expensive as fuck, would cost me way more money than I would ever get back. With that said, I'm not in this for the money but I guess you guys have figured that out already.

[Westersund]

Originally Posted by eggman51

There is a community member on here - great guy and local to me - named ZeD4Mr who has a line on carbon fiber manufacturing. I dunno if it's in any way feasible to see if they can be done in carbon fiber.

That said, I'm happy to wait, and happy to recognize that you are doing R&D for a small niche market and shit happens... if it takes more time or if you identify reasonable additional costs are required to meet your original quality standards, I think we can all be adults about that

eg

I'm sure they could be done in carbon, but strength wise it's not needed. For what it is a 3D print is very strong and with a layer of epoxy resin on the backside you'd have to use an unreasonable amount of voilence to break one during installation. As for the finish, I'll take some close up pictures today and post it up so you guys can see for yourself.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by Westersund

I don't know what kind of temperature used with thermoforming, but I believe the 3D printed ducts would go too soft to keep it's shape 100%. Making CNC milled tools/negatives is expensive as fuck, would cost me way more money than I would ever get back. With that said, I'm not in this for the money but I guess you guys have figured that out already.

I have seen moulds used for thermoforming been miiled out of some plasticky foam kind of material I believe, so it doesnt need metal cnc milled precision moulds per se.
Maybe it also depends on what kind of plastic you want to have thermoformed and how thick the sheets are. I'm sure a thermoforming company can tell you that. I'm sure they've researched the possibility to make moulds for thermoforming by means of 3d printing.
But I think thermoforming usually is a very cheap production process, also in smaller batches (less than 50pcs). Its just not engineering wise very precise, but I think this part doesnt need to be I reckon.
If you have problems with the production volume wise or timespan wise and cost is a real issue it's I think the first alternative to at least look into.
I only dont know if your cones have protrusions at the back, for maybe clips to clip into or screws to screw into. Thats of course not possible with thermoforming (assuming we talk about the same process here; thermoforming by means of heating a sheet and vacuumsucking it over a mould), and desired sheet thickness might also be a limitation.

Carbon fiber would be awesome aestetically. But carbon manufacturing obviously is also very very time consuming and therefore very expenisve.
But making it out of carbon would sure be an eye catcher

[Westersund]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I have seen moulds used for thermoforming been miiled out of some plasticky foam kind of material I believe, so it doesnt need metal cnc milled precision moulds per se.
Maybe it also depends on what kind of plastic you want to have thermoformed and how thick the sheets are. I'm sure a thermoforming company can tell you that. I'm sure they've researched the possibility to make moulds for thermoforming by means of 3d printing.
But I think thermoforming usually is a very cheap production process, also in smaller batches (less than 50pcs). Its just not engineering wise very precise, but I think this part doesnt need to be I reckon.
If you have problems with the production volume wise or timespan wise and cost is a real issue it's I think the first alternative to at least look into.
I only dont know if your cones have protrusions at the back, for maybe clips to clip into or screws to screw into. Thats of course not possible with thermoforming (assuming we talk about the same process here; thermoforming by means of heating a sheet and vacuumsucking it over a mould), and desired sheet thickness might also be a limitation.

Carbon fiber would be awesome aestetically. But carbon manufacturing obviously is also very very time consuming and therefore very expenisve.
But making it out of carbon would sure be an eye catcher

I see, I might look into it more. We're thinking about the same kind of thermoforming. My ducts have hole on top for the mounting bracket so that would have to be done by hand with thermoforming.

I've just messed around a little with glasfiber and I don't think it would be able to make it good looking enough in carbonfiber. We do offer the ducts in CFRP.

[Westersund]

As promised, some pictures. The quality isn't 100% on this one, it can be a little better with some fine tuning. We've built an enclosure for the printer now to slow down the cool down process and to keep heat around the part for longer. When the part is done it will cool down slowly instead of cooling down faster bit by bit as the printing progresses. We're hoping this will yield a better end result.

[rockstar93]

Well I'm sold. Those look great and I love how many people are stepping up to develop for this platform.

Regarding the CFRP, any benefits other than aesthetic? Stiffer, lighter, etc?

[Residentj3553]

Is there a picture of the CFRP material and how it would look when finished?

[eggman51]

Looks awesome! Appreciate the progress reports. Wondered if these could be made into a mold, then use other material to manufature them?

If you are planning to reinforce these, I would definitely go for that, let me know if there is any additional costs.