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      12-16-2013, 01:21 PM   #1
rjj
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Troubleshooting Soft Top - Sensor/Wiring Issues? ***SOLVED***

Hi all,

I was wondering if anybody has any experience troubleshooting non-motor related soft top issues. The symptoms are:
  • Top doesn't go down at all (windows don't even roll down)
  • Top goes up only 1/3 of the way and then stops (this is the only motion I get from it)
  • Motor is new, including housing. Fluid is sufficient, no leaks.
  • Top moves properly, on its own, with 12V applied directly, in either direction (on the garage floor)
  • Front cowl lock motor moves (locks) in either direction with 12V applied directly
  • Rear-shelf sensor (in trunk) tested and works properly
  • Red-light blinks constantly
  • Rear-window defroster doesn't work (indicating that the car thinks the top isn't closed???)
  • I checked as much wiring as I could for shorts, broken wires etc... I didn't check the wiring to the top locked/unlocked sensors but did check wiring to locking motor. I checked the wiring to the open/closed sensors on the driver's side pivot... but did not remove the sensors.

It sounds like a wiring problem somewhere or some other electrical sensor issue that causes the top control module to interrupt all movement above 1/3 the way up. It looks very similar to this issue:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=719790

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated as I am pretty much stuck now...
Thanks!
Rick


SEE SOLUTION BELOW IN POST #9

Last edited by rjj; 12-22-2013 at 10:56 PM.. Reason: found a solution
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      12-17-2013, 11:20 PM   #2
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It does sound like a wiring issue similar to the bimmerfest post.
The control module sees something it doesn't like, so it quits to be safe.
Can you scan it with DIS and see if there's a clue to be had?
Something's shorting or opening between fully closed and 2/3 open.
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      12-18-2013, 12:25 AM   #3
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I had a similar experience with mine, and it turned out that the manual pull switch had been pulled out slightly and turned in the little housing area where the ring tab rests. Fiddle with that and see if it resets itself.

John
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      12-18-2013, 11:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StickMon View Post
It does sound like a wiring issue similar to the bimmerfest post.
The control module sees something it doesn't like, so it quits to be safe.
Can you scan it with DIS and see if there's a clue to be had?
Something's shorting or opening between fully closed and 2/3 open.
Yeah, I kinda gave up until I can scan the codes... On a sidenote, do you know if INPA would be sufficient to read those soft top codes? It's supposed to read K+CAN bus and that's where the soft top codes are stored apparently... I just don't know anything about those scanners so I'm still trying to piece things together in my head.

Antennahead, thanks for the thought. I'll check it again but I think I actually have an opposite situation... I have to pull the manual switch further than the position where it locks in order to release the hydraulic pressure.
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      12-19-2013, 12:41 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj View Post
... On a sidenote, do you know if INPA would be sufficient to read those soft top codes?
Not sure about INPA. I've only used it for engine diagnostics.
DIS probably can. Every time I do a scan with it it's on about the stereo and the lights and the bluetooth, so it probably can scan the top module.
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      12-19-2013, 01:10 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj View Post
Yeah, I kinda gave up until I can scan the codes... On a sidenote, do you know if INPA would be sufficient to read those soft top codes? It's supposed to read K+CAN bus and that's where the soft top codes are stored apparently... I just don't know anything about those scanners so I'm still trying to piece things together in my head.

Antennahead, thanks for the thought. I'll check it again but I think I actually have an opposite situation... I have to pull the manual switch further than the position where it locks in order to release the hydraulic pressure.
My top would also move part of the way and stop. I'd hit the button and it would move a little more. I "thought" the pull switch was situated properly, but it was turned 180 degrees and not quite all the way in the housing where it rests...... pulled it out a little and got it in correctly, and the top started working again properly. I hope you can get to the bottom of it. These types of things frustrate the hell out of me
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      12-20-2013, 09:49 PM   #7
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So, I did the whole INPA install and pulled the codes:

"VSW 4.1, Short circuit to GND"

Any tips on finding this? Does that mean that:
  1. a + wire is stripped and touching the ground somewhere?
  2. Or does it mean that a wire is simply broken?

If it's #2, I can check for resistance... if it's #1, I guess I can also check for resistance, but between + and -?

BTW, the top open/closed sensors seem to work as I could read the correct state in INPA when the top was closed/opened by hand.
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      12-21-2013, 01:19 AM   #8
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"Short circuit to GND" is scenario #1.
There's a wire pinched somewhere.
Based on your symptom, it gets pinched when the top is 1/3 up, but is OK below that.
I would look for a wire caught in the linkage.

Of course it would help if we knew exactly what VSW 4.1 was.
Maybe "Verdeck SWitch"?
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Last edited by StickMon; 12-21-2013 at 01:27 AM..
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      12-22-2013, 10:53 PM   #9
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FIXED!!!

One of the wires going up to the hall sensors (at the front of the roof) broke. It broke near the front of the roof, right where the first fold is (see pictures). I needed to take the plastic panel off in order to get to the wire (it's hanging in the pictures below). Also, I had to cut that braided sleeve that holds the wires together. You won't be able to see anything without cutting it... it looks perfect on the outside. This is the second time I've seen that the break happened at the same location. I hope this helps someone and saves them some time


The plastic panel hanging in order to get access to the wiring (hanging):





The break in the wire is to the right of my hand here (you can see where I cut wiring sleeve):




You can clearly see the broken wire... it was one of the thin ones naturally.
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      12-23-2013, 12:57 AM   #10
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Good work!! Nice addition to the database.
The bare end of the wire probably contacted the grounded metal of the linkage when the top got 1/3 of the way up, triggering the fault.
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      02-24-2014, 07:06 PM   #11
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My top is doing the exact same thing. How did you check the sensor/wiring? Did you do it from under the panel or did you need to disconnect this wiring harness from the main harness and check from there? if the latter, where is the connector located?

Thanks in advance. HOpefully you just saved me a bunch of money. I was beginning to search for a new hydraulic unit....
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      02-24-2014, 09:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaiman View Post
My top is doing the exact same thing. How did you check the sensor/wiring? Did you do it from under the panel or did you need to disconnect this wiring harness from the main harness and check from there? if the latter, where is the connector located?

Thanks in advance. HOpefully you just saved me a bunch of money. I was beginning to search for a new hydraulic unit....
Just look in the pictures above. I took off that plastic cover, spliced open the wire cover/protection and saw the broken wire.
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      02-25-2014, 08:34 AM   #13
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This was done after reading the code, just saying thaiman.
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      06-15-2019, 01:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjj View Post
FIXED!!!

One of the wires going up to the hall sensors (at the front of the roof) broke. It broke near the front of the roof, right where the first fold is (see pictures). I needed to take the plastic panel off in order to get to the wire (it's hanging in the pictures below). Also, I had to cut that braided sleeve that holds the wires together. You won't be able to see anything without cutting it... it looks perfect on the outside. This is the second time I've seen that the break happened at the same location. I hope this helps someone and saves them some time


The plastic panel hanging in order to get access to the wiring (hanging):





The break in the wire is to the right of my hand here (you can see where I cut wiring sleeve):




You can clearly see the broken wire... it was one of the thin ones naturally.
Hi rjj. The photos you posted no longer appear on the post. Do you happen to still have those photos available and can re-post or send? I have the same problem, and I would very much appreciate the photos. Thank you in advance.
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