What would you upgrade to after a Z4MR?

[WeekendWarriorz]

As the title states what's the next upgrade/car you'd get coming from a Z4MR. Having sold my roadster a few years ago and looking to get into the market again it seems like there's very few options to replace the experience with. Seems like most people go to Porsches (911, GT3, etc) if they had a Z4MC but what about the manual/top down experience?

My list of cars seems to go as follows and seems limited:

-991.1 Carrera S cabriolet (N/A 7mt)
-991.2 Carrera S cabriolet (twin turbo 7mt)
-C7 corvette (z51, GS, Z06) (all targa top)

List feels pretty limited and would love to hear what others have added to their stable.
For anyone who has moved on to a coupe after driving their roadster, do you miss the experience?

[grannyknot]

Z4M Coupe with the windows down.

[kyriian]

Lotus Evora S, 400.
A90 Supra with a 6 speed
981 Boxster Spyder
NA2 NSX

Pretty much in this order, with #1 much higher on the ranking

[racerbruce]

2008 Lotus Exige S

[F360C]

Boxster Spyder or 911 GTS cab if you're looking for the top down experience, an engine that screams and a manual. These cars can make big power NA too... Deman Motorsport is putting out 500+ hp on their 4.5l spyder/gt4 motors.

[86Zed]

Hard to beat a Boxster GTS or Spyder - that is where I would put my money. Still a 2X+ price shift over the aging BMW

[bagekko]

A long time ago SO had a Chrysler Sebring convertible (Yeah its blah) but that gave me the vert bug, over the past 15 years I have had a convertible. Z3 2.8 5spd, 135i DCT, M4 6spd, and now I have two Z4M 6spd and M4 DCT Comp. I got the Z4 cause I missed my Z3 so much. Only other thing maybe in the cards next 2-5 yrs is a 911 cab cause the wife wants one, but the Z4M is never going anywhere, would get a non-vert M4 if got the 911.

The only thing thats realistic comparable to Z3/4 roadster is the boxster. Lotus's are great but since rare in the US they are pricey. Plus the Lotus's are not really daily drivers like the Z4, would never do a road trip in one.

[Piper1]

Originally Posted by bagekko

A long time ago SO had a Chrysler Sebring convertible (Yeah its blah) but that gave me the vert bug, over the past 15 years I have had a convertible. Z3 2.8 5spd, 135i DCT, M4 6spd, and now I have two Z4M 6spd and M4 DCT Comp. I got the Z4 cause I missed my Z3 so much. Only other thing maybe in the cards next 2-5 yrs is a 911 cab cause the wife wants one, but the Z4M is never going anywhere, would get a non-vert M4 if got the 911.

The only thing thats realistic comparable to Z3/4 roadster is the boxster. Lotus's are great but since rare in the US they are pricey. Plus the Lotus's are not really daily drivers like the Z4, would never do a road trip in one.

So how long ago are we talking? Traded my 98 avenger for my 03 Z4 had a 99 avenger that got totaled before that and was a member of asec and asog back in the day.

[Lucky1]

Audi R8 V10, Porsche 911 Speedster w/ manual trans or nothing for me

[wdb]

If you don't mind an older flavor, 996 cabs are the cheapest 911 you can get. I don't think it will give the same thrills as a Z4MR but it might be close on a track. Practical too.

The newest 911 I would buy is a 997. I simply don't like the big, fat, newer ones.

Lotus as a weekend toy, yes. Taking a trip in a Lotus, hmmm.

[pyshin]

My vote would be for a 997.1/.2 Turbo Cab.

[Coi]

I can't imagine getting hard top car after having my roadster. I recent had a fair bit of seat time in an F90 M5 Competition and found it less exciting than my Z4, even on straighter roads. Once you get over the initial acceleration, so much of the experience of driving is lost without the wind and noise of a convertible. Sure, it's cool how the M5 pulls above 100 mph, but I'd rather be doing 80 mph with the roof down. Convertibles feel faster and more exciting even when they're way slower. With how low speed limits are I'd rather have the former.

I drove a 997.1 Carrera S Cabrio 6MT and found it far less engaging than the Z4MR. It's definitely an upgrade in terms of comfort and interior room but the driving experience is not as exciting as I thought it would be. The steering has nice feel but is quite light and the shifter doesn't feel that good. The engine has more character than newer cars but doesn't build excitement like the S54. The handling is definitely more compromised as a convertible versus an E85. 997S Cab was my "practical" dream car for the longest time so I was deeply disappointed. I do have an intake, exhaust, and short shifter on my Z4M, so maybe some subtle mods on the 997 would wake it up a bit. However, modding Porsches quickly gets complicated and costs far, far more than with BMWs.

Maybe the 997 GTS would be better and I'm sure the GT3 is next level, though the latter especially gives up a lot of manners on the street. The GT3 is very stiff and pretty low.

They 987 Cayman/Boxster have better steering feel than the Z4M but the engines and shifters leave something to be desired and personally I find the ergonomics of those cars very odd. I think the 987 Boxster Spyder is probably one of the most underrated driving experiences out there right now, but the fact that the roof doesn't even seal against the side windows really hurts the practicality. That's not an issue on later Spyder models.

I haven't driven a 991 but I rode in one and it seemed even more like a luxury car than the 997. Far nicer to cruise on the highway but not as willing to be tossed around. It's extremely capable but seems more suited for flying down the highway than tight canyon roads. I'm sure the 991 S could whip my Z4M on those tight roads, but the driver won't be having as much fun as me. The 991.2 is surprisingly quick in a straight line, much quicker than the power numbers suggest. Off the line there is lag unless you use launch control though. That said, I would take a 981 Boxster GTS over the 991.1 for driving engagement and take a 991.2 over the 991.1 for performance.

The normal 981 Boxster has pretty numb steering. I had a base as a rental car and it felt slow as well. I'm sure the engine in the 981 Spyder is awesome, so maybe that's worth a look. It has a slightly different steering rack than the base too. The convertible top on the Spyder might be a bit of a pain, but I'm sure it's not as bad to use as reviewers suggest. My main issue with most modern Porsches is that the manual transmission gearing is way too long; can't even use half of 3rd unless you're on the freeway and have no regard whatsoever for the limit. I love shifting and heel-toe so I prefer shorter gearing over more performance. It's fun to just be driving at a normal speed then do a 4>3>2 heel toe up to a red light. The 981 Spyder is also really rare, so selection is low and values are high.

So I would say the more direct next steps up after a Z4MR would have to be a 981 GTS, 981 Spyder, or C7 Corvette Grand Sport 6MT (targa or convertible). With a higher budget could consider a 718 Spyder or R8 Spyder V10 6MT. Dropping the requirement of a manual trans and not caring about repair costs opens up options like the 458 Spyder or Gallardo Spyder. With any of those options you're giving up fun at lower speeds.

If you don't need a roadster but want an awesome driving experience look at a 997 GT3. Maybe the 991 GTS is fun? I would assume the GTS is more engaging than the S.

If you want straight line speed but with a stick then could get a 997 Turbo Cab 6MT or C7 Z06 7MT.

If you don't mind giving up engagement for the sake of straight line speed then look at the 991.2 C2S/C4S and Mercedes AMG GT are cool. 991 Turbos are super overvalued right now but are total rockets.

I really arrived at the Z4M because I wanted a relatively light, naturally-aspirated, manual transmission, hydraulic-steering, engaging convertible/roadster that isn't so fast you can't use the performance on the street. The fact that it was under $20k to buy and honesty isn't that expensive to mod or repair is icing on the cake. Even if I was spending way more on a car I'm not sure what I would go for.

[WeekendWarriorz]

Originally Posted by Coi

I can't imagine getting hard top car after having my roadster. I recent had a fair bit of seat time in an F90 M5 Competition and found it less exciting than my Z4, even on straighter roads. Once you get over the initial acceleration, so much of the experience of driving is lost without the wind and noise of a convertible. Sure, it's cool how the M5 pulls above 100 mph, but I'd rather be doing 80 mph with the roof down. Convertibles feel faster and more exciting even when they're way slower. With how low speed limits are I'd rather have the former.

I drove a 997.1 Carrera S Cabrio 6MT and found it far less engaging than the Z4MR. It's definitely an upgrade in terms of comfort and interior room but the driving experience is not as exciting as I thought it would be. The steering has nice feel but is quite light and the shifter doesn't feel that good. The engine has more character than newer cars but doesn't build excitement like the S54. The handling is definitely more compromised as a convertible versus an E85. 997S Cab was my "practical" dream car for the longest time so I was deeply disappointed. I do have an intake, exhaust, and short shifter on my Z4M, so maybe some subtle mods on the 997 would wake it up a bit. However, modding Porsches quickly gets complicated and costs far, far more than with BMWs.

Maybe the 997 GTS would be better and I'm sure the GT3 is next level, though the latter especially gives up a lot of manners on the street. The GT3 is very stiff and pretty low.

They 987 Cayman/Boxster have better steering feel than the Z4M but the engines and shifters leave something to be desired and personally I find the ergonomics of those cars very odd. I think the 987 Boxster Spyder is probably one of the most underrated driving experiences out there right now, but the fact that the roof doesn't even seal against the side windows really hurts the practicality. That's not an issue on later Spyder models.

I haven't driven a 991 but I rode in one and it seemed even more like a luxury car than the 997. Far nicer to cruise on the highway but not as willing to be tossed around. It's extremely capable but seems more suited for flying down the highway than tight canyon roads. I'm sure the 991 S could whip my Z4M on those tight roads, but the driver won't be having as much fun as me. The 991.2 is surprisingly quick in a straight line, much quicker than the power numbers suggest. Off the line there is lag unless you use launch control though. That said, I would take a 981 Boxster GTS over the 991.1 for driving engagement and take a 991.2 over the 991.1 for performance.

The normal 981 Boxster has pretty numb steering. I had a base as a rental car and it felt slow as well. I'm sure the engine in the 981 Spyder is awesome, so maybe that's worth a look. It has a slightly different steering rack than the base too. The convertible top on the Spyder might be a bit of a pain, but I'm sure it's not as bad to use as reviewers suggest. My main issue with most modern Porsches is that the manual transmission gearing is way too long; can't even use half of 3rd unless you're on the freeway and have no regard whatsoever for the limit. I love shifting and heel-toe so I prefer shorter gearing over more performance. It's fun to just be driving at a normal speed then do a 4>3>2 heel toe up to a red light. The 981 Spyder is also really rare, so selection is low and values are high.

So I would say the more direct next steps up after a Z4MR would have to be a 981 GTS, 981 Spyder, or C7 Corvette Grand Sport 6MT (targa or convertible). With a higher budget could consider a 718 Spyder or R8 Spyder V10 6MT. Dropping the requirement of a manual trans and not caring about repair costs opens up options like the 458 Spyder or Gallardo Spyder. With any of those options you're giving up fun at lower speeds.

If you don't need a roadster but want an awesome driving experience look at a 997 GT3. Maybe the 991 GTS is fun? I would assume the GTS is more engaging than the S.

If you want straight line speed but with a stick then could get a 997 Turbo Cab 6MT or C7 Z06 7MT.

If you don't mind giving up engagement for the sake of straight line speed then look at the 991.2 C2S/C4S and Mercedes AMG GT are cool. 991 Turbos are super overvalued right now but are total rockets.

I really arrived at the Z4M because I wanted a relatively light, naturally-aspirated, manual transmission, hydraulic-steering, engaging convertible/roadster that isn't so fast you can't use the performance on the street. The fact that it was under $20k to buy and honesty isn't that expensive to mod or repair is icing on the cake. Even if I was spending way more on a car I'm not sure what I would go for.

One of the most elegant write ups on this forum! Thank you sir

[deemo319]

My client asked if I would buy his 997.1 Turbo Cabriolet when he wants to sell it.

He ordered it new and added a couple nice bits like custom 3-piece wheels from HRE and an exhaust system and it's a 6-speed manual. If I recall it may have 10,000 miles on it.

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Coi

I drove a 997.1 Carrera S Cabrio 6MT and found it far less engaging than the Z4MR. It's definitely an upgrade in terms of comfort and interior room but the driving experience is not as exciting as I thought it would be. The steering has nice feel but is quite light and the shifter doesn't feel that good. The engine has more character than newer cars but doesn't build excitement like the S54. The handling is definitely more compromised as a convertible versus an E85. 997S Cab was my "practical" dream car for the longest time so I was deeply disappointed. I do have an intake, exhaust, and short shifter on my Z4M, so maybe some subtle mods on the 997 would wake it up a bit. However, modding Porsches quickly gets complicated and costs far, far more than with BMWs.

I've had a 996.2 targa for about a year. The steering is the most communicative I have experienced in decades. Yes it is light, so is the nose of a 911. But it transmits so much information into the driver's hands! As good as the Z4M's steering is, it doesn't compare.

I agree completely on the shifter. I've thrown some money at mine and it is now tolerable, but when I get back in my M and that Autosolutions gem of a shifter I know I will never be able to make a cable rig feel *that* good. There is a Numeric Racing shifter which would probably add some precision; they make hefty cables too, and they did help, but they transmitted so much noise into the cabin I had to take them out. In short, my 996 shifter is still a work in progress. My Z4 shifter is perfect.

My car has the factory "sport" exhaust, PSE for short. It has a switch which opens a bypass and makes the exhaust louder. The sound is intoxicating. I wish I could hear more of my Z4's Eisenmann exhaust, but I have a coupe. I'd have to give this one to the Porsche.

Driving experience is quite a bit different between the cars. I like them both but for different reasons. The 996 is old enough that it has no nannies, and it still has a very analog feel to it. So does the Z4 so that's a wash. The big six in front and my butt sitting on top of the rear wheel is such a fun combination, I love it! But so is the feathery front end and serious amount of rear traction in the Porsche -- with that little voice always reminding me that if the back end does go, DO NOT LIFT. Adds spice. I really enjoy them both.

The Porsche is so practical it's ridiculous. I would think a cab would be nearly the same; although it wouldn't have the clever rear hatch and space behind the seats, it would make up for it with super easy access the the back seat area when the top is down. And they both have that wonderful frunk.

The view outwards in the targa is exceptional in every direction; the car is small and drives even smaller, and even has some ground clearance. The look and feel of the interior does not come up to Z4M standards, but both are pretty decent places to spend time from a driving practicality standpoint. Ingress/egress is easier in the Porsche. It wins this round too.

The Z4MC is muscular, direct, and deeply engaging. It is extraordinarily competent and tells you so with every movement. It. Wants. To. Go. The targa is friendlier, more accommodating; it doesn't mind trundling through the mall parking lot. It will also put giant smiles on your face when you reach for more. The fun thing about owning both is that I can pick the one that suits my mood.

[Spaceman Spiff]

If you're looking for a more refined and precise car with better performance but very different driving experience, any 911 from 996 on.

If you want a pcar that's closer to the MR's feel (but still not the same), any 987+, S or above.

But if you're looking to replicate the experience, there is only one answer: Split the budget and get another MR + a 996.

[ZStig]

Originally Posted by F360C

Boxster Spyder or 911 GTS cab if you're looking for the top down experience, an engine that screams and a manual. These cars can make big power NA too... Deman Motorsport is putting out 500+ hp on their 4.5l spyder/gt4 motors.

this is the way and in my 3 year plan

[Coi]

Originally Posted by F360C

Boxster Spyder or 911 GTS cab if you're looking for the top down experience, an engine that screams and a manual. These cars can make big power NA too... Deman Motorsport is putting out 500+ hp on their 4.5l spyder/gt4 motors.

The gearing so long on these cars though. Boxster Spyder 1st goes to 52 mph, 2nd to 85 mph, and 3rd to 121 mph. That mean on a tight road you're just sitting in 2nd almost the whole time because 3rd is too long. Maybe it's worth dropping $10k to get some of the ratios swapped out in the transmission from Sharkwerks or Deman rather than going for more power.

Z4M by comparison 1st goes to ~40 mph, 2nd to ~70 mph, 3rd to ~100 mph, and 4th to ~140 mph. The car isn't nearly as quick as a Boxster Spyder, to be fair, but even with the stock rear gears this is pretty short for a car with an 8k rpm redline. The means that fun roads have lots of shifting between 2nd and 3rd, with maybe a little 4th on straights (don't have to always redline 3rd before upshifting).

[Coi]

Originally Posted by wdb

I've had a 996.2 targa for about a year. The steering is the most communicative I have experienced in decades. Yes it is light, so is the nose of a 911. But it transmits so much information into the driver's hands! As good as the Z4M's steering is, it doesn't compare.

I agree completely on the shifter. I've thrown some money at mine and it is now tolerable, but when I get back in my M and that Autosolutions gem of a shifter I know I will never be able to make a cable rig feel *that* good. There is a Numeric Racing shifter which would probably add some precision; they make hefty cables too, and they did help, but they transmitted so much noise into the cabin I had to take them out. In short, my 996 shifter is still a work in progress. My Z4 shifter is perfect.

My car has the factory "sport" exhaust, PSE for short. It has a switch which opens a bypass and makes the exhaust louder. The sound is intoxicating. I wish I could hear more of my Z4's Eisenmann exhaust, but I have a coupe. I'd have to give this one to the Porsche.

Driving experience is quite a bit different between the cars. I like them both but for different reasons. The 996 is old enough that it has no nannies, and it still has a very analog feel to it. So does the Z4 so that's a wash. The big six in front and my butt sitting on top of the rear wheel is such a fun combination, I love it! But so is the feathery front end and serious amount of rear traction in the Porsche -- with that little voice always reminding me that if the back end does go, DO NOT LIFT. Adds spice. I really enjoy them both.

The Porsche is so practical it's ridiculous. I would think a cab would be nearly the same; although it wouldn't have the clever rear hatch and space behind the seats, it would make up for it with super easy access the the back seat area when the top is down. And they both have that wonderful frunk.

The view outwards in the targa is exceptional in every direction; the car is small and drives even smaller, and even has some ground clearance. The look and feel of the interior does not come up to Z4M standards, but both are pretty decent places to spend time from a driving practicality standpoint. Ingress/egress is easier in the Porsche. It wins this round too.

The Z4MC is muscular, direct, and deeply engaging. It is extraordinarily competent and tells you so with every movement. It. Wants. To. Go. The targa is friendlier, more accommodating; it doesn't mind trundling through the mall parking lot. It will also put giant smiles on your face when you reach for more. The fun thing about owning both is that I can pick the one that suits my mood.

Yeah, I drove a 987.2 and found the steering feel significantly better than my Z4M. Probably the best of any car I've been in. That said, even my old E93 was better so my Z probably needs new FCABs and an alignment. My Z's steering does lighten up in corners more than the E93 did and isn't quite as heavy at low speeds, but the car is also nearly 900 lbs lighter. I haven't been in a 996 but it's probably a little more raw than the 997. I think the 997S Cab I drove might've also had all season tires (albeit performance all-seasons), so that's why it didn't match the 987.

My Z4M came with the UUC shifter (which I've heard is inferior to Autosolutions) but I put a super lightweight bmw motorsports shift knob and I'm pretty happy with it. It did come installed backwards though (leaning towards the passenger side). It's the best shifter I've ever felt in a bmw and maybe getting close to what my old NC Miata was like. I've actually grown to appreciate some of the heft and notchiness of my Z4M compared to Miatas or Porsches.

I'm sure the exhaust makes the Porsches more exciting, but I just don't find the character of their motors as 'frantic' as the S54, for better and for worse. I have a Stromung exhaust and Eventuri intake on my Z4M and I find it quite loud and very exciting. Even with the roof up it's a bit noisy. The intake sound is more pleasing than the exhaust, but they really go well together. Induction is something I miss when I drive other people's modified cars with just exhausts on them. I don't know if there's a way to get more intake noise out of Porsches, but if there is I'm sure it's very expensive and might even perform worse than probably-excellently-designed factory airbox. When I briefly considered a 997 I was looking into the Gundo exhaust hack which apparently sounds similar to the PSE.

I find the interiors of the 987.1 and 997.1 extremely outdated. Those center consoles and some of the steering wheels are pretty ugly. The 987.1 even uses some parts (like sunvisors and certain interior plastics) from the 986 and they're really not acceptable. The Z4M has a much nicer design despite the plastics being super brittle and often cracking. I have nav but I always keep the screen folded so it doesn't feel like a super outdated car. The Boxster is ridiculously practical for a 2 seater with the both the front and rear trunks. 911 is pretty good too if you fold the rear seats and use that area as a second trunk. The 997 feels like a bigger car than the Z4M all the time, but that's because it is. Being able to shove a 3rd or maybe even 4th person in there for short trips isn't to be underestimated.

[F360C]

Originally Posted by Coi

The gearing so long on these cars though. Boxster Spyder 1st goes to 52 mph, 2nd to 85 mph, and 3rd to 121 mph. That mean on a tight road you're just sitting in 2nd almost the whole time because 3rd is too long. Maybe it's worth dropping $10k to get some of the ratios swapped out in the transmission from Sharkwerks or Deman rather than going for more power.

Z4M by comparison 1st goes to ~40 mph, 2nd to ~70 mph, 3rd to ~100 mph, and 4th to ~140 mph. The car isn't nearly as quick as a Boxster Spyder, to be fair, but even with the stock rear gears this is pretty short for a car with an 8k rpm redline. The means that fun roads have lots of shifting between 2nd and 3rd, with maybe a little 4th on straights (don't have to always redline 3rd before upshifting).

You're preaching to the choir here.. I have 4.10 gears in my Z4 and I love it because I am constantly rowing through the gears! If I got a GT4 gears would be first thing on my lists.

[WAGMI]

Looking to get on the waitlist for a Lotus Emira, probably won't get one until early 2025 lol

[bwright657]

Originally Posted by WAGMI

Looking to get on the waitlist for a Lotus Emira, probably won't get one until early 2025 lol

I'm thinking the same thing. The last hydraulic steering, manual Lotus should pair nicely with the last naturally aspirated, inline 6, manual ///M car.