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      04-25-2021, 02:26 AM   #1
MBan
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Can you still hear the intake with a full exhaust? (Z4M)

Hi all,

I recently installed Supersprint V1 stepped headers and cat'd s-pipe on a Euro-spec car. I noticed the volume of the exhaust increased from inside the car and has made it harder to hear the intake.

I would like to deepen the tone of the exhaust, so I'm considering either completing the exhaust (rear mufflers and x-pipe), or adding mufflers or x-pipe alone. However, I'm worried that I won't be able to hear the intake at all.

I will almost certainly be putting on an Eventuri intake, which should increase the volume.

So, can I expect to clearly hear the intake (with Eventuri) with a full exhaust?

It'd be great hear from people with experience with this setup, or people with an educated opinion.

Thanks in advance
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      04-25-2021, 08:01 AM   #2
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Here my experience... my car has a CSL intake and Euro headers and aftermarket s-pipe with 300 cell Cats.

I originally had the SS X-Pipe and OE mufflers and the sound was as you described, a bit deeper in tone. Then I added Remus cans and it was so loud I could not hear the CSL box as before, plus it drone very much. So I went back to the OE X-pipe and this gave right combination.

So if you just want a deeper sound try the X-Pipe first with the eventuri

Adding aftermarket mufflers really make these cars loud, those that say otherwise are deaf or just too young compared to me.

I currently have remus cans and they are borderline too loud but since is a weekend toy I am hanging to them.
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      04-25-2021, 05:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maupineda View Post
Here my experience... my car has a CSL intake and Euro headers and aftermarket s-pipe with 300 cell Cats.

I originally had the SS X-Pipe and OE mufflers and the sound was as you described, a bit deeper in tone. Then I added Remus cans and it was so loud I could not hear the CSL box as before, plus it drone very much. So I went back to the OE X-pipe and this gave right combination.

So if you just want a deeper sound try the X-Pipe first with the eventuri

Adding aftermarket mufflers really make these cars loud, those that say otherwise are deaf or just too young compared to me.

I currently have remus cans and they are borderline too loud but since is a weekend toy I am hanging to them.
That's great information - thank you. Remus was my first choice of muffler but they don't make them anymore, so it probably would have been Supersprint Powerloops if I went with aftermarket mufflers. Hearing that even the Remus mufflers made the system too loud is a bit of a shock given they are supposed to be close to stock volume-wise.

How was the level of rasp with the full aftermarket system except with stock rear mufflers?
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      04-25-2021, 08:53 PM   #4
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I think you would be happy with Supersprint X-pipe and Powerloops. Here's mine for reference:



I am fully catless and there is some rasp under hard acceleration, but not much. I imagine that with a catted setup you would be nearly rasp-free.
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      04-25-2021, 09:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
I think you would be happy with Supersprint X-pipe and Powerloops. Here's mine for reference:



I am fully catless and there is some rasp under hard acceleration, but not much. I imagine that with a catted setup you would be nearly rasp-free.
Thanks, Josh - your car does sound really good. With the supercharger, can you still hear the intake from inside the car? I know there is a special intake manifold for supercharger setups but I'm not sure how that affects intake volume and tone?
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      04-25-2021, 10:56 PM   #6
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The supercharger does muffle the resonance/S54 intake "brap" a bit, but it still sounds good. It's probably a bit louder with the supercharger, both intake and exhaust. I just got back from a drive, and I remember consciously running through the gears and thinking about how loud/great the engine sounded.
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      04-26-2021, 02:53 AM   #7
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Agreed - the S54 sounds great (albeit mine is a pretty modest version in comparison to yours), which is why I'm keen to get the balance between exhaust and intake just right.

So, minimal rasp with a full exhaust when the Powerloops are used but based on maupineda's experience, it may still drown out the intake.

Does anyone else have experience with this kind of setup?
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      04-26-2021, 09:54 AM   #8
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I don't think the Remus is as quiet as it's been made out to be.
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      04-26-2021, 04:46 PM   #9
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Maybe on an otherwise stock setup it's quiet?

In any event, I've tried quite a few places now and none can get the Remus mufflers anymore.

That really leaves the SS Powerloops, as far as I'm aware, as the mildest off the shelf option. I may have to buy a set anyway and tuck them away. There may be no options still for sale in another few years.

It would still be great to hear from someone who has an Eventuri?
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      04-26-2021, 06:11 PM   #10
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Actually, another thread I had saved about the SS Powerloops said:

This is most likely due to NA headers vs Euro headers? Most people in Europe appeared to say Remus sounds much louder than stock while NA people say it's barely louder.

https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1321994

I would assume Powerloops would also be louder on Euro cars?
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      04-26-2021, 09:13 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBan View Post
That's great information - thank you. Remus was my first choice of muffler but they don't make them anymore, so it probably would have been Supersprint Powerloops if I went with aftermarket mufflers. Hearing that even the Remus mufflers made the system too loud is a bit of a shock given they are supposed to be close to stock volume-wise.

How was the level of rasp with the full aftermarket system except with stock rear mufflers?
No rasp at all with all aftermarket except for the mufflers, way less than what you would hear in an M3 which is very tiny and raspy.

With the remus and SS X-Pipe the volume and rasp was offensive 😳

And yes, having cats in the headers muffle sound a bit more compared to the EU cars. If you can afford it just buy the X-Pipe and powerloops as they are not long from being not available anymore

Last edited by maupineda; 04-26-2021 at 09:20 PM..
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      04-27-2021, 02:53 AM   #12
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I love rasp!! sounds like an angry wasp trying to get out... ;P
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      04-27-2021, 04:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maupineda View Post
No rasp at all with all aftermarket except for the mufflers, way less than what you would hear in an M3 which is very tiny and raspy.

With the remus and SS X-Pipe the volume and rasp was offensive 😳

And yes, having cats in the headers muffle sound a bit more compared to the EU cars. If you can afford it just buy the X-Pipe and powerloops as they are not long from being not available anymore
Thanks. Keeping the stock mufflers with the SS x-pipe could be a could solution, then. Buying the Powerloops would mean delaying the Eventuri but, as you say, it may be better to just get the Powerloops now even if I don't fit them right away.

Vanne - I don't mind a little rasp either but E46 M3 levels are too much. I've heard some Z4Ms with too much rasp as well (on Youtube, though, so may not have been as bad in real life). A little rasp is good, too much sounds like something is broken!
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      05-15-2021, 12:02 PM   #14
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On my car I could barely barely here the intake sound. Only heard it at high rpm and wide open throttle.

With the turner csl style intake now the sounds are amazing at both ends

Edit for details:
Previous intake was eventuri
Exhaust is fabspeed headers, modified oem section 1 with resonators in place of cats which is what really kills the raspiness off the s54. BMS section 2 and stromung mufflers.

Also I have not sold the eventuri intake yet if you're interested in it.
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      05-21-2021, 12:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRedman45 View Post
On my car I could barely barely here the intake sound. Only heard it at high rpm and wide open throttle.

With the turner csl style intake now the sounds are amazing at both ends

Edit for details:
Previous intake was eventuri
Exhaust is fabspeed headers, modified oem section 1 with resonators in place of cats which is what really kills the raspiness off the s54. BMS section 2 and stromung mufflers.

Also I have not sold the eventuri intake yet if you're interested in it.
Thanks for the feedback - it's great to have a few perspectives. A couple of weeks' ago I ordered the Supersprint x-pipe and Powerloops. I ordered the x-pipe with a flange on the downstream end and the adapters for the mufflers so I can mix and match between stock and SS parts. Hopefully I'll be able to get the right balance.

I'm definitely interested in the Eventuri intake but I'm in Australia, so postage costs may be a killer and a pain for you. Feel free to PM me if you think it could work though.
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      09-15-2021, 09:39 AM   #16
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I have an eventuri intake and RPi exhaust. Definitely can't hear the intake until about 6500 rpm under WOT
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      09-15-2021, 03:09 PM   #17
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I'll report in, if only to show that sound observed is not a one size fits all solution.

Eventuri intake, European BMW CSL (OEM) headers, Stromung cat back. I can still hear the intake when it really comes on in higher RPM, otherwise the exhaust noise can be overpowering. According to the wife the car is much louder inside than out.

I had the Eventuri and Stromung on for ~2 years prior to the CSL addition. Much quieter, tons of intake noise. Eventually I will replace the Eventuri with a a CSL airbox and potentially return to stock mufflers.
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      09-17-2021, 12:28 AM   #18
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Thanks, TurboDream and 86Zed.

I realise I probably should update this properly but the short summary is that I installed the Eventuri and SS X-pipe and Powerloops a few months ago. The mid-range 'fizz' of the SS V1 stepped headers still drowns out a fair bit of the Eventuri's sound but you can hear it. It's interesting the character the X-pipe adds. Last week I took out the X-pipe but left the Powerloops on and the result is... the car sounds a lot flatter and more monotone. I may try SS X-pipe with stock mufflers as well.

However, I still want more intake sound and am seriously considering the full CSL-style inbox despite the alpha-n limitations (and legal issues around removing the MAF).
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      10-14-2021, 12:05 PM   #19
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There are legal issues with removing the MAF? Sounds like a tough state mate. CSL intake /does/ sound like the ducks nuts though. I have a spare race one available if your keen?
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      10-14-2021, 11:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanne View Post
There are legal issues with removing the MAF? Sounds like a tough state mate. CSL intake /does/ sound like the ducks nuts though. I have a spare race one available if your keen?
Anything involved in emissions control cannot be legally modified in Western Australia, which would (I think) include removing the MAF. At least that's my understanding of the Australian Design Rules.

Severn Tuning has also recommended against alpha-n... but it's still tempting!

Which brand of intake do you have? I was horrified reading about Eggman's Evolve intake failing! I could almost justify the cost of going OE.
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      10-15-2021, 08:34 AM   #21
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Sounds like you already pulled the trigger, but I have a euro setup (euro header/euro section 1), rogue engineering x pipe, and I've paired it with both SS race cans and RPI cans. This was both with stock intake and with AFE intake.

With RPI, can't hear anything but exhaust.
With SS Race, agreed with the comment that I can hear intake >7k at WOT, but barely. I think with powerloops, you'lll hear a bit more intake.

My prior setups involved euro header, DKF Section 1 with 300 cell cats, stock xpipe/RE xpipe, and SS powerloops/race with AFE intake. I could hear intake >7k at WOT, but barely with all these setups. SS powerloops vs. race made the most difference in hearing intake sound. Then I installed the euro section 1 and it got notably quieter, so intake was more audible. I think if you leave your section 1, you should hear some intake unless you go with a LOUD muffler. Using something like eventuri should help vs. stock/AFE as well.

Regarding tone, powerloops were deeper than race by far. RPI are deepest under 2.5k rpm; beyond that, they are the least deep of the 3.
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      10-15-2021, 08:29 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reborn_ View Post
Sounds like you already pulled the trigger, but I have a euro setup (euro header/euro section 1), rogue engineering x pipe, and I've paired it with both SS race cans and RPI cans. This was both with stock intake and with AFE intake.

With RPI, can't hear anything but exhaust.
With SS Race, agreed with the comment that I can hear intake >7k at WOT, but barely. I think with powerloops, you'lll hear a bit more intake.

My prior setups involved euro header, DKF Section 1 with 300 cell cats, stock xpipe/RE xpipe, and SS powerloops/race with AFE intake. I could hear intake >7k at WOT, but barely with all these setups. SS powerloops vs. race made the most difference in hearing intake sound. Then I installed the euro section 1 and it got notably quieter, so intake was more audible. I think if you leave your section 1, you should hear some intake unless you go with a LOUD muffler. Using something like eventuri should help vs. stock/AFE as well.

Regarding tone, powerloops were deeper than race by far. RPI are deepest under 2.5k rpm; beyond that, they are the least deep of the 3.
Thanks - you've really tried a few combinations!

I tried full Supersprint (V1 stepped headers, cat'd S1, X-pipe and Powerloops) with an Eventuri and I reckon it sounded pretty epic but droned and in some scenarios (particularly when cold) it buzzed / rasped through the mid-range. While it was hard with this setup to hear the intake separately, it had a complex, rich sound when you were really on it. Playing with the throttle was great fun just to bring out different tones... but it was a bit much, so I swapped back to the stock X-pipe. This is the right balance for me: drone is decreased (not eliminated, though), you can hear the intake reasonably clearly and at low revs it has a deep burble.

I think you're right re the stock section 1. I noticed when I put on the SS headers and Section 1 with stock everything else, it made a fizz through the mid-range that obscured the intake.

I'm still curious what it would sound like with the SS X-pipe and stock mufflers but I suspect the undesirable (to me) features like rasp would come back and it would lose the burble of the Powerloops, so not really a win.

I was reading MattWalters' thread again this week (such an amazing project) and he suggested that the stock X-pipe and mufflers would be a significant restriction. I didn't really see that with mine (+6-8hp from adding X-pipe, mufflers and Eventuri), but maybe once you get into cams and a proper CSL-style airbox the effect would be more pronounced. So, who knows - maybe I'll go back to the SS X-pipe at some stage!
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