We don't have a "detailing" sub section?

[The HACK]

I guess there isn't enough demand or traffic for such subtopics. Anyway.

Got a bunch of Griot's Garage products between X'Mas and my birthday a few weeks ago. Tried out their new Liquid Gloss Polymer Wax and was very VERY happy with the result on the 335D. Finally took some time after the MZ4 Coupe got rained on (driving on slick race tires in the wet is not fun. Even if the drive was only about 7 miles) to clean it.

Some of you may have seen what the 335D looked like after the Liquid Gloss Polymer Wax:



For about a week, the MZ4 Coupe was no longer the cleanest car in the garage. That got remedied quick. These are the products (Griot's Car Wash not shown) that was applied to the MZ4 Coupe to bring back a brilliant shine:



From left to right, Synthetic Clay, Machine Polish 4, BOSS Finishing Sealant, Paint Glaze, and Liquid Gloss Poly Wax. Applied in that order.

DISCLAIMER: I am a big fan of Griot's Garage products. So big that at one point my wife complained about the $$$ I spent on their stuff. There's a shelf full of their products in the garage. I've been using it since 2000. Yes it's expensive. Yes you can probably find cheaper version of most of the stuff they sell somewhere else. No I don't care, I love their products and am willing to pay a little extra for it, and the shine/protection it provides to my cars.

I realize car care product preference are like @ssholes, everyone's got one...Mine is Griot's Garage.

First up is the Synthetic Clay Bar:



Claying has never been one of my favorite activities post wash. It just isn't. I mean, the results are STUNNING, but the process itself is a pain in the @ss. You have to lubricate it constantly either with water, soapy water, or using a lubricant like quick detailer. And you have to kneed and turn the clay bar constantly after each panel, especially if the car's paint has been neglected like MOST cars. In fact, a lot of times I get lazy and skip the clay and go straight to polish, using one of the more abrasive machine polishes to remove surface impurities.

The paint on the MZ4 Coupe is well cared for enough where I could probably have skipped claying this time, but since I got the Synthetic Clay Bar I figured I give it a shot.

The Synthetic Clay Bar appears to be a foam pad with some sort of rubber surface for the "clay" portion. The rubber surface has a mild tack to it, with small bumps collecting the surface impurities off of your paint. It is simply everything that is good about clay bar, NONE of the drawbacks. It's easier to grip with the foam backing, no need to constantly turn and kneed it, and cuts the entire clay process down by 1/2 the time. I simply use my pressure washer to rinse, then the foam cannon to blast detergent on the car, followed up by a nice scrub with a microfiber wash mitt, then rinse off the dirty soapy water with the pressure washer again, then foam up the car with the foam cannon for the second time, then went to work with the Synthetic Clay while the entire car is still covered with soapy foam.

Since the MZ4 Coupe's paint was already well cared for, the clay bar didn't do much. You can tell if the clay bar is working when you glide it across the paint. If it's picking up surface impurities you'll feel a slight resistance or tug. The only difference between the Synthetic Clay Bar and the normal clay bar, is that you can't see the dirt and impurities picked up. When you finish a panel with traditional clay bar, you can see how much gunk is in it, since you have to turn it over and kneed it for some fresh clay. On the Synthetic Clay Bar, it's a black rubber, so you don't see anything. But you can assume it's doing its job because it will only glide smoothly across the lubricant when the paint surface is clean.

And the foam backing holds enough soapy water, when the foam has dripped off the side of the car, I can just squeeze the foam a little to release some more soapy water for lubricant. This truly has made claying the surface of the paint a breeze, and far more enjoyable. I may start claying more, and polishing less.

The ONLY issue I had with it, is the product left some weird oily residue that I can see when reflected on the right angle on the first two panel I applied it to. I would suggest washing it in soapy solution thoroughly before first application.

Next up, Machine Polish 4.



This is a tried and true product I've been using for years. On a well cared for paint surface, it will remove light contaminant and chemical residue. It does very little polishing, the particles are so fine that it doesn't take off any clear coat unless you lean into the machine at the highest speed settings. I love using this with and/or without clay, because it removes most of the very fine water marks left behind during the drying process. Especially with the claying process requiring wiping off the lubricant, or washing off with more water, either way, you have to "dry" the surface and no matter how good and clean your chamois is, it WILL leave drying marks after unless you use de-ionized, distilled water to wash. And I don't have that.

I also love the fact that a little goes a very long way. I've had this bottle for about 4 years now, and Griot has stopped selling the fine Machine Polish 4 in favor of their BOSS Perfecting Cream. And since you only need very little of the product, wiping it off is simple too. The residue left behind also doesn't clump into a dusty mess, so it's perfect to prep the paint surface after a wash to accept a sealant or wax without leaving the car semi-covered in a fine dust.

Once this bottle runs dry I will have to give their BOSS Perfecting Cream a shot. However, I did try their new BOSS Finishing Sealant:



I had Griot's original Paint Sealant, and have used it for maybe 7 or 8 years. The 16 ounce bottle finally ran dry, and they (Griots) stopped selling the sealant. Before I get into the new BOSS Finishing Sealant, I have to say, I LOVED their original Paint Sealant. It was long lasting, a single application can protect for months, again, very little goes a long, LONG way, and it was easy to take off. The sealant was my go-to for cars other than the MZ4 Coupe, since it gives excellent protection, decent shine, and if I use any "wax as you dry" type products in-between I can get a decent shine without a ton of elbow grease. And it is by far the easiest application of any type of wax or sealant I've ever used, up to this point.

So I had high, HIGH hopes for the BOSS Finishing Sealant. Because their Best of Show wax, which the Best of Show System derived their name from, is a top-notch, fantastic carnauba based wax.

I don't want to say I feel let down, but their original formulation for their Paint Sealant was such a great product. Application of the BOSS Finishing Sealant was straight forward with a random orbital machine. Removing the residues was another matter. It's a lot more like the Best of Show Wax. I mean, I love the BOS Wax, for it's shine, durability, and incredible depth when you layer it. But the BOS Wax was a major pain-in-the-@ss to remove. It takes a ton of elbow grease in buffing it out with a microfiber cloth. You almost have to use a product like a quick detailer (their Speed Shine works well) or sprits some water on the surface to make it easier to remove, and when you do that, there's a chance of introducing a lot of swirl or removing more of the product than necessary.

While the BOSS Finishing Sealant isn't as tough to remove as BOS Wax, it required a lot more elbow grease and buffing than the original Paint Sealant. Whether or not the new BOSS Finishing Sealant will last longer than the original formula remains to be seen, but at this point I have to say I prefer the original. Had the BOSS Finishing Sealant provided better shine than the original formulation I probably wouldn't mind the elbow grease as much, but at this point, especially considering on the MZ4 Coupe I intend to layer glaze and wax on top of the sealant, I was not as wildly satisfied as I was with the Synthetic Clay for sure.

Which leads me to the Paint Glaze:



I used to have a love/hate relationship with glazes. I love the incredible wet, deep look a good glaze gives you. I HATE applying it. I used to use 3M's Imperial Hand Glaze. A fantastic product, and a must if you want a truly fantastic shine. But the application of the hand glaze is a day long project, because you have to do it to small sections at a time, you can't get a good result with a machine and you have to do it by hand, and the process to take off the residue requires Karate Kid level "wax on, wax off" training. It would leave me sore all over and drained after each glazing session, if I choose to do it. And this was back when I was a strapping young buck. I used to dread the annual "the car has to look at it's best" detailing session when I would break out the 3M IHG.

So with all that. I am going to tell you the Griot's Paint Glaze is the greatest glaze in the world. Bar none. And they don't make/sell it anymore. so everything I can tell you about how it is a fantastic glaze that offers the same level of depth and deep penetrating oil to bring out the pop of darker paint like the best hand glazes in the world had to offer, none of that matter because you can't get it. But it is a glaze unequal in ease of application and rivals all other hand glazes. The results are stunning to say the least. That picture of the 335D with the Liquid Gloss Polymer Wax up top? That's what the Paint Glaze gives you. That deep, lustrous, wet/just washed like look with a great shine because the glaze fills in all the micro surface scratches. It makes a good paint great, and a great paint just incredible.

Sadly, glazes don't last more than a week. I don't know what it is, it either evaporates into the air, or just magically disappears. Typically the glazed look is gone after your first wash. It's just inevitable, even if you cover up the glaze with a good wax, which I used to. Because the Griot's Paint Glaze is so easy to apply with machine, and residue removal was reasonably easy, I used to apply the glaze 2-3 times a year just so I can feel good about the paint, since I don't go to shows. IF you go to shows, like to show off the paint, a good glaze is a must have. Nothing compares with a nice glaze.

Not even the Liquid Gloss Polymer Wax.



But it comes very close. That 335D picture up top has ONLY the LGP Wax applied after a Machine Polish 3 post wash. The shine and depth comes close to rivaling the result I'd get post glaze on the MZ4 Coupe. Very close. In fact, when I was doing the MZ4 Coupe I contemplated skipping the glaze knowing what sort of results I can expect from the LGP Wax. I probably could have skipped it and it would have saved me about 1.5 hour of work. But by the time I was ready to start the glaze, my back was already killing me after the unexpected amount of elbow grease required for the BOSS Finishing Sealant. So at that point, it wasn't like the back was going to hurt MORE with the extra step of the glaze, and I suspect the result might be worth it, layering the Glaze and LGP Wax.

And I was right.



When I was done wiping off the Liquid Gloss Polymer Wax, I was floored. Not because it's the end of a fairly long process, but the result is STUNNING. In my "past" live working in the Marketing department of a variety of automotive aftermarket companies, I look at, handle, and deal with show cars all the time. Not just car show show cars. I touch and handle 6-7 figure, concours level cars often. I've driven a few that can be considered museum level cars. Those cars gets handled with a white glove, and gets worked on and cared for like few others. And their paint is immaculate. If you ever get a chance to be up close at a concours (not a car show), take a close look at the paint finish. It is amazing.

And were it not for the factory orange peel, I'd say the MZ4 Coupe comes very close. It is that shine-y. I can glide my finger across the paint surface and it feels like I'm gliding over butter. The best I can describe the paint, is like it's on HDR mode. The darks are darker, the reflected light (specular) are brighter, the pop and the depth is about as good as the MZ4 Coupe has seen. It's not concours level, where the paint's quality will take your breath away, but I actually walked away PROUD. It's THAT good.

Now, I don't attend car shows, so I know what the missus is going to say. "Why put all that work, suffer back pains for 2-3 days, if the car is just going to sit in the garage and no one sees it?" To that, I say, it puts a damn smile on my face every time I look at the car and that is all that matters.

And it sure puts a smile on my face.

[steffenme1]

Thanks for writing this up! You mentioned polishing and I was wondering what polisher you use specifically, I'm going to take a wild guess and say it's the Griots 6" RO but maybe I'll be surprised.

https://www.griotsgarage.com/product...dom+orbital.do

I'm not sure why by the idea of using a power tool on my paint gives me the willies, like I'm somehow going to burn a giant hole in the paint and my car will forever be resigned to the scrap heap.

[The HACK]

My "detailing" habits go back 18+ years, and I've been using the same Porter Cable Random Orbital Polisher for that duration. I'm not sure if they still make it, but it looks like this one:



It's got a 6" hook/velcro disc adapter from AutoGeek, since the original 6" adapter disintegrated over time. 18+ years and still running strong, it's one of the more durable power tools I use in the garage. Heck it's so durable I even use it to polish/clean the glass stove-top and clean the counter-top in the kitchen when it's dirty enough for the missus to start complaining.

What I've found over time, is with the right foam pads machine polishing is quite safe. With the Porter Cable Random Orbital Polisher (Model #7336) and a good orange polish pad, I can be on speed 6 (the highest speed) and lean my weight into it, and it will still take minutes to burn through the top clear coat with a moderate polish like Griot's old Machine Polish 3. At that point the foam pad is likely to disintegrate first due to the heat.

Like everything in life though, practice makes perfect, and with experience comes knowledge and skill. And read the instructions that came with the product thoroughly, as well as do research up front using the vast knowledge base called the Internet.

That, and it didn't hurt that I had a 1991 E30 318is with a horribly mis-treated paint from the previous owner to experiment with. Someone had taken a scuff pad to the paint to try and create that "matte" finish (at least, that's what I suspect). I had tried a variety of polishes using a whole bunch of different settings to try and revive that paint to no avail, but it gave me valuable experience with the polisher and how much force, time, and speed before it will start irreversibly damage the paint using each different Machine Polish with different abrasive level.

At the end I had to use a rubbing compound to make the paint semi-presentable. That car needed to be repainted IMO. Live and learn.

[elerner61]

Nice work!

Oh yeaahhhh. Getting into a good day or so of long paint cleansing and correction is therapeutic for me as well. I've got the same early Porter Cable but with the extremely hard clear coat on the Z4M I'm just not getting enough drive out of it to correct everything. I've got a Flex or something similar on the buy list (but it's been on there for two years now, damn Mountain Bike stuff is expensive!).

Here's a situation many will appreciate...and laugh..and maybe cry at. My Mom was visiting us for a week this past June (she's 83 and a tough lady). We didn't end the week on good terms. As we're leaving the house for me to drive her to the train station...and arguing...she has to look for her phone in her pocketbook to make sure she has it. To do this she has to put her pocketbook on a flat surface to rifle through it. What flat surface does she choose to set it down on....MY TRUNK. My trunk that I had spent about 45 minutes correcting earlier in the week. Were there rivets or other doo-dads on the bottom of her pocket book?? I had no idea. I very calmly asked her to not "do that", and she didn't instantly slice me in half with laser beams out of her eyes for caring for my car more than I care for her. So I escaped that one.

Oh boy.

[coh661]

Great write up. I've had my Z for a couple years now and I'm finally ready to delve deep into detailing. As with anything else, I read as much as I can before I dive in. This is great info for me. Amazing how much goes into detailing.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by elerner61

Nice work!

Oh yeaahhhh. Getting into a good day or so of long paint cleansing and correction is therapeutic for me as well. I've got the same early Porter Cable but with the extremely hard clear coat on the Z4M I'm just not getting enough drive out of it to correct everything. I've got a Flex or something similar on the buy list (but it's been on there for two years now, damn Mountain Bike stuff is expensive!).

Here's a situation many will appreciate...and laugh..and maybe cry at. My Mom was visiting us for a week this past June (she's 83 and a tough lady). We didn't end the week on good terms. As we're leaving the house for me to drive her to the train station...and arguing...she has to look for her phone in her pocketbook to make sure she has it. To do this she has to put her pocketbook on a flat surface to rifle through it. What flat surface does she choose to set it down on....MY TRUNK. My trunk that I had spent about 45 minutes correcting earlier in the week. Were there rivets or other doo-dads on the bottom of her pocket book?? I had no idea. I very calmly asked her to not "do that", and she didn't instantly slice me in half with laser beams out of her eyes for caring for my car more than I care for her. So I escaped that one.

Oh boy.

Bwahahaha. I laugh because I know exactly how you feel.

Father-in-law came over to stay with us for a week a few years ago. Picked him up from the airport, and as we pulled into the garage he proceeds to open the passenger door WIDE. Right into the Coupe. Right on the crease above the side signal Roundel.

For about 1/10th of a second I considered ripping him a new one. Then I looked over at my wife and she gave me the DEATH RAY STARE. I had to swallow my pride and take the car to a paintless dent removal guy, and he did an amazing job of minimizing the dent. But I know it's there, there's a small nick left behind by the door from the E60.

Supposedly she talked to him later and explain to him how much I "loved" the Coupe. But he never apologized for the ding and it's minimized to a point where if I don't look for it I can't find it. Some people just don't understand the obsession I guess.

But on the paint front, I've had the MZ4 Coupe for almost 12 years now, and it's gotten at least 2x per year polish. The first few years it's gotten the thorough treatment, starting with clay, then Machine Polish 1, then Machine Polish 3, then Best of Show or the Griot's Paste Wax on top. After that it's at least an annual polish with Machine Polish 4. I find that it's not the polisher's speed, but the amount of cut and abrasive that's present in the polish that will do the most correcting work. Once the paint is in good shape, the actual polishing gets decreased and you can just skip the polish and clay then sealant on top.

[Kenneth Carroll]

No one will ever treat your car like you will treat your car, and even wives rarely understand it. However, my wife does know what will happen if anyone in her family dents my car. The whole damn thing gets painted, and not by MAACO either! I don't ask for much, but I will not overlook that. And yes, I've seen the Death Ray Stare, and in most circumstances, I respect it like a lion respects the tamer's whip! Just not when the car is concerned and she understands it. It has worked for 38 years, three Porsches, two BMW's, and one Triumph TR4A which showed up in the garage after what can only be described as a bout of temporary insanity on my part, damn Lucas electrics!

[KevinM]

Nice job! You've given me the courage to try the "fake clay." I agree with you, that is my least favorite part of detailing.

True confession - my PorterCable is still in it's brand-new box 2 years later. I had good intentions, but I don't see any swirls, so i've just been using sealants.

[Hedward]

Griot's Paint Prep
Iron X decontaminant
Clay bar
Griot's corrective cream
Wolfgang finishing glaze
P21-S Paintwork cleanser
Wolfgang deep gloss paint sealant
P21-S 100% carnauba wax

Five Advil for sore back.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by The HACK

My "detailing" habits go back 18+ years, and I've been using the same Porter Cable Random Orbital Polisher for that duration. I'm not sure if they still make it, but it looks like this one:



It's got a 6" hook/velcro disc adapter from AutoGeek, since the original 6" adapter disintegrated over time. 18+ years and still running strong, it's one of the more durable power tools I use in the garage. Heck it's so durable I even use it to polish/clean the glass stove-top and clean the counter-top in the kitchen when it's dirty enough for the missus to start complaining.

What I've found over time, is with the right foam pads machine polishing is quite safe. With the Porter Cable Random Orbital Polisher (Model #7336) and a good orange polish pad, I can be on speed 6 (the highest speed) and lean my weight into it, and it will still take minutes to burn through the top clear coat with a moderate polish like Griot's old Machine Polish 3. At that point the foam pad is likely to disintegrate first due to the heat.

Like everything in life though, practice makes perfect, and with experience comes knowledge and skill. And read the instructions that came with the product thoroughly, as well as do research up front using the vast knowledge base called the Internet.

That, and it didn't hurt that I had a 1991 E30 318is with a horribly mis-treated paint from the previous owner to experiment with. Someone had taken a scuff pad to the paint to try and create that "matte" finish (at least, that's what I suspect). I had tried a variety of polishes using a whole bunch of different settings to try and revive that paint to no avail, but it gave me valuable experience with the polisher and how much force, time, and speed before it will start irreversibly damage the paint using each different Machine Polish with different abrasive level.

At the end I had to use a rubbing compound to make the paint semi-presentable. That car needed to be repainted IMO. Live and learn.

And this is why, up till now, I've resisted the temptation to buy a Porter Cable random. I care about the cars I have too much to risk learning on them.

But my beat to sh** truck, with rust beginning due to an evaporating clear coat on the roof, is the perfect learning tool.

I'm going to learn on it. Worst I can do is accelerate the decay. I'll give these products a whirl .

I'll also note that reading your posts is largely what got me interested in going to the track. Which comes with a learning curve, is fun and highly addictive, and costs a lot of money. Detailing appears to be much the same. I see several patterns here...

[HTM101]

Father-in-law came over to stay with us for a week a few years ago. Picked him up from the airport, and as we pulled into the garage he proceeds to open the passenger door WIDE. Right into the Coupe. Right on the crease above the side signal Roundel.

I cringed when I read that. I used a piece of MDF, approx. 48" x 10" x 1/2" and wrapped it with a piece of old blanket. Its suspended from the ceiling with small dia. cord and hangs between my wife's daily driver and the Z4. Both of us like having the ding protection hanging there.

I'm a Griot's user, too. About 20 years now.

David

[racerbruce]

Greetings HACK,
I live in the land of Griot's Garage that is locatedin Tacoma, WA....I live north of there in a suburb on the east side of Lk Washington (appx 40 miles from the Griot's mother ship). Griot's has awesome car days and product demonstrations (that I haven't been to and MUST go).

My beloved Z4M Red Roadster was mine in early 2010 and didn't receive machine polishing until this year. My first immersion in this process has been using Chemical Guys products. I've used the four different polishing compounds (#32 is aggressive and #38 is optical grade). While it has helped to make my Imola Red look much better, I still see a need for further refinement. I have not taken the steps you took (clay bar, etc).

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/sgmuofevz...48H6jb0Ha?dl=0

So, would you recommend I try the five Griot's steps?

Your car looks AWESOME!

[The HACK]

racerbruce my Z4 M Coupe has been in my possession since new and parked indoors the majority of its life. Plus I’ve maintained it since new, so the paint is in good condition and require little to no correction. It does get an annual polishing with Machine 4 (Griot’s least abraisive compound) and in 12 years has had maybe a full polish AND sealant at least 8 or 9 times, and bi-annual clay religiously. It’s a little over the top but I like my car’s CLEAN.

If you don’t know the car’s history, and not the first owner, it simply takes time to correct the paint, as I had an okay experience doing that for our 545i and the 335d. I would recommend you use whatever product you’re familiar and comfortable with, with new products sometimes you just don’t know the nuances of application. Although, I think, wax is wax and polish is polish, how they’re applied aren’t THAT different from brand to brand.

If you still have some swirl marks or scratches that chemical guys product won’t fix, you can always keep going back with their milder polish until you’re happy with the result. The only thing I will add, is the CLAY is very important to the process, you want the surface to be free of contaminant before you polish, otherwise you’re just dragging that contaminant across the paint along with the polish at high speed. I normally clay before I polish, unless I’m super lazy and know the paint is relatively defect and contaminant free.

Keep in mind what you see on my Coupe is 12 years worth of elbow grease too...

[elerner61]

I jumped into the "fake clay" water last week. I used a Speedy fine grain surface prep cloth (online reviews and a friend had just used this cloth). Overall very satisfied. I don't think it does as good a job as clay (been claying for 15 years+ now) but it get's close enough that for a non-show car it is certainly good enough. And you can't beat the convenience/speed over traditional clay.

[racerbruce]

Thank you HACK,
I'll stay w/Chemical Guys and will CLAY the Red Roadster as my next step.