setting ride height sucks! big time.

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by seank

What got you so upset?

Read the first post where I quoted you... You posted a link to an article and ignored the end of it as you came to your conclusion that dubsesd's car handles poorly. If by poorly, you really meant better than stock suspension then you should choose another word; if not, then you're just wrong.

[Beedub]

ok guys, sean K, i know alot of you run low low suspension, my concern is for 100% performance from the car, when i swap over to my Cups i need room in the fenders, anyhow i know my car is higher than most and not that lower than stock, but heres some better daylight pics... Kw did express to me that in order to have a setup that works 100% as THEY intend, you dont want it to low.....

anyhow heres some better daylight shots i took on alittle ride out, the car is approx 12mm lower than stock....

ive never been a fan of the slammed car and more to the point i dont want to prematurely wear my extremely expensive clubsport coilovers.... all this led me to the decision to leave the car where it is... the clubsports with the linear springs are incredibly stiff and roll seems non existant!! will be adding my turner bush limiters next week :-)

[inTgr8r]

That looks pretty close to stock height to me....

spec =
front 607 +-10mm bottom of wheel to fender
rear 594 +-10mm

what does yours measure?

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by inTgr8r

That looks pretty close to stock height to me....

spec =
front 607 +-10mm bottom of wheel to fender
rear 594 +-10mm

what does yours measure?

its around 12-13mm lower.... another angle

[seank]

Originally Posted by Beedub

its around 12-13mm lower.... another angle

The car looks at a good PERFORMANCE height. The rear suspension geometry on these cars are very different from the front. You can probably drop the rear a 10mm, which will give you rear squat and lower center of gravity. It also increases caster which is a good thing.

Other than that, it looks great and will probably handle amazing. Now you get to play with spring rates and sway bar adjustments on the track, which is the fun part.

[inTgr8r]

looks good to me!

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by seank

The car looks at a good PERFORMANCE height. The rear suspension geometry on these cars are very different from the front. You can probably drop the rear a 10mm, which will give you rear squat and lower center of gravity. It also increases caster which is a good thing.

Other than that, it looks great and will probably handle amazing. Now you get to play with spring rates and sway bar adjustments on the track, which is the fun part.

thanks sean, thats all i want PERFORMANCE!!!!

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by dubsesd

I did? I was just at a gt3 cup race, and all those cars were lower than mine and had factory original suspension points. The gt3 cup is about 2-2.5" lower than a gt3

I highly doubt it. Factory original suspension mounting, but a lot of non-factory parts to reduce the roll coupling. Most of those race cars that run on factory suspension mounting points most likely run with ball-joint extenders to relocate the roll center.

In addition, these race car chassis has been completely stripped and have a much lower center of gravity relative to the chassis, thus allowing further lowering of roll center to keep the roll coupling close to reduce roll AND improve camber curve. You can't really compare a RACE CAR to a street car and say, hey, if THEY can get that low, so can I.

Well, yes you can. If you're willing to go the steps of converting your car to a race car.

[Gt4]

Originally Posted by seank

Hi Beedub, I would not lower the car anymore than you need to for performance. The control arms should never be more than horizontal to the ground EVER because it decreases the camber and will actually cause more roll. That is why very low track cars run 1000lb spring rates. I can not type out large excerpts from suspension books to give you more info since I am typing on my phone. I have attached a good read from a well known bmw, car geek.

http://www.e30m3project.com/e30m3per...t_transfer.htm

Dubsesd car is beautiful and looks great but will handle poorly unless the suspension points have been modified as they do to ALL dtm cars.

I agree with seank on low car vs suspension geometry.

On my ex E46 M3 race car, I installed GC adjustable tie-rods and BMW Motorsport control arms to readjust the roll center and get proper front suspension geometry. I think the lowest you can go with an E46 M3 is 13'' from the center of the wheel to the fender.

If you go too low, it might feel better than OEM because you feel a lot less body roll but you might have less front grip in reality. You would just raise the front by 1/2'' and it would help to regain front grip.


http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36-wid...arms-p995.aspx
http://store.bimmerworld.com/ground-...rods-p979.aspx

[Beedub]

GT4 thats a SERIOUS setup!!!!

seank no's his shit it seems ;-)

[inTgr8r]

Good info here!

[Gt4]

The roll center adjustment changes can also be done for the rear, like on the BMW Motorsport setup.

You need to change the roll center by adjusting the height of the inner control arm mount heights. I also saw some E36 with the top of the subframe bushings grind.

[Beedub]

Also, adjust the camber on these plates that come with the clubsports is a pain in the ass, you have to loosen the nuts, remove them, lift the car, lower the strut, ect ect the opening on the bmw strut top is sadly just to small, im thinking of having the strut top professionally modified, then repainted properly to allow my to do this without having to keep removing everything, its a pain in the ass and worried ill damage something eventually.....

i want to add a touch more camber, i also installed my camber shims to the bottom of the strut to allow me to dial in more camber with less increments on the plate..... from what i can guess each hash mark on the kw plates equates to .40 of camber.

The car FEELS great, so pleased with it.... will get camber to -2.5 and leave it their!! the clubsports feel fantastic imo... so pleased with them and the quality is just second to none.