GB PENDING!: The ULTIMATE Strut Bar Solution: Mason Engineering - POSSIBLE GROUP BUY!

[wspohn]

Originally Posted by Vanne

It's also not just /if/ the addition of the STB adds functionality, but I know for a fact that for me it adds confidence. And that confidence turns into a better, faster ride for me.

Fair comment!

Is cracking of the towers a common issue with the Z? I've seen pics of the top holes cracking out. Reminds me of Mk 1 Cortinas that rusted until the front shocks punched through the bonnet......

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by wspohn

Fair comment!

Is cracking of the towers a common issue with the Z? I've seen pics of the top holes cracking out. Reminds me of Mk 1 Cortinas that rusted until the front shocks punched through the bonnet......

On a stock setup, not really.
But when you start running coilovers with stiffer springs and then add some track time, it does happen, though not as prevalent as other series.

[tominizer]

Ok, going to come off sounding like a cheap bastard, but I have to be the one to say it. That's ridiculous money for THAT. Really !??!?! Talk about taking a hosing from that company. They are going to be laughing all the way to the bank. If that same product was for a Honda, and I mean the "EXACT" same piece, half that price and they'd still be making money.

[wspohn]

Thanks for the feedback.

As a long time road racer, I like to justify the mods I do to my cars with hard data about whether they do what they are supposed to do.

I added three different chassis stiffening devices to my Solstice simply because they work and eliminated some handing quirks in the stock car.

I am a bit surprised that people want to add strut bars just for appearance. Cluttering up my rather nice looking engine bay with what sometimes looks like a Mechano set gone mad is about the last thing I would do as an appearance mod, but to each his own.

I am considering whether or not to replace the stock shocks and springs in my Z4 (I strongly favour BC Racing based on previous experience) and if I do, I'll certainly give consideration to possibly adding a strut bar to deal with any added forces across the strut mounts due to stiffer springs.

I gather that substituting coil-overs on the rear so that both the shock forces and the springs operate on the top mounts can also cause some concerns - something else to worry about.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by tominizer

Ok, going to come off sounding like a cheap bastard, but I have to be the one to say it. That's ridiculous money for THAT. Really !??!?! Talk about taking a hosing from that company. They are going to be laughing all the way to the bank. If that same product was for a Honda, and I mean the "EXACT" same piece, half that price and they'd still be making money.

With our low production numbers, it's difficult to recoup R&D costs. So for this, I'm just glad companies are producing parts for our cars.

It's easier to justify making lower priced products for a Honda as they can sell 50x more in volume.

[tiltmode43]

I'm a little surprised this thread got this much convo going, but that is good! All respectable points.

Originally Posted by angelr

http://news.bimmerworld.com/is-a-strut-brace-worth-it/

A test measuring tower deflection with and without a front brace.

This is a cool test! I don't doubt their findings at all, but wish they wouldn't have performed the test in something that appears to be a stripped out race car with full cage welded in. I would have even loved it more if they did it on a roadster, but one can only wish.

Originally Posted by AriuSen

The real truth? I'll let you know once I get hands of one strut bar lol
I never thought of getting one because I always thought the z4m lacks in roll compared to m3s. And making the car stiffer, with a sway bar + strut bar could give me mass understeer and lack of grip.
I added hotchkis sway bar and I tried two options. First softest. Didn't feel a single difference from oem. Then I changed to medium, felt much much better. Definitely for me is a plus. A lot of people get the sway bar and says car feels sharper, which makes them conclude that sway bar is a good beneficial mod. Be careful with that conclusion. Sharper, more nimble, or stiffer, doesn't mean faster. Those things really really make you think you are driving faster and getting better laptimes, but they can be deceiving. for me a beneficial mod is something that helps me lower my laptime. When I had e92, I added front sway bar. Car felt so much better and so much easier to get the turn correct since car is sharper, but I felt the car lacked front grip in exchange to (damn my car turns so much better now!!). I then, removed my sway bar and went back to oem, and boom! Private best with oem. Car went back to being lazy, but had again more front grip to go faster on the turn. I took this advice once platteforme told me they don't run stiffer sway bar in their race cars. Therefore, took me a long time to get a front sway bar in my z4m because I had the same concept, but in the z4m, the sway bar was beneficial. It really helped me reduce my oversteer, thus making me push harder on fast corners, and mid corner understeer wasn't very noticeable, and my laptimes reduced.
So like the article says, it all depends on the car and the driver I think. What worked for me might not work for you, and what's beneficial for you, might not be beneficial to me.

What is beneficial to you? For some people, having car more nimble is already a plus mod. Others, can be laptimes and list goes on.

My reasons to get.
1- reinforcement
2- front sway bar proved me wrong and it was a good mod in my car, so might as well try a strut bar too.
3- looks good haha.
However, if I notice my laptimes are worsened, I will take it out.
Sooooo, please don't take me as I am the boss and I know what's good or not. I am just someone who wants to share my track experience of what worked and what didn't, but what worked for me doesn't necessarily means it will work for you.

You should get on board with the GB and get the best option out there, a single piece bar


Overall note, and this is somewhat echoing what others have said:

If we're all completely honest, strut bars are usually one of those mods that don't do a whole lot for performance 'gains'. I like the idea of adding rigidity to a roadster (hence my interest) but in reality, there are other places to look first when it comes to changing driving characteristics. The benefit of helping to reinforce the strut towers is what really had me looking into strut bars in the first place. The way I see it is, if you're going to try and modify your car in some way, you may as well add something with the best design, most likely of improving performance.

Originally Posted by tominizer

Ok, going to come off sounding like a cheap bastard, but I have to be the one to say it. That's ridiculous money for THAT. Really !??!?! Talk about taking a hosing from that company. They are going to be laughing all the way to the bank. If that same product was for a Honda, and I mean the "EXACT" same piece, half that price and they'd still be making money.

Quit being such a cheap bastard

But really, I agree to an extent. They're definitely a little expensive for a strut bar. I showed this thread to a buddy of mine who has an S2k and he effectively called me a complete idiot for even entertaining the idea. However, keep in mind the OEM strut bar MSRP is around $375, though it sells online for $300. The Strong Strut bar (http://www.strong-strut.com/order_in...ms/pricing.htm) retails @ $400. If these bars were made overseas and sold to Hondas, of course they would be cheaper. Unfortunately it seems our market doesn't justify this type of mass production for this sort of product. Rogue tried it on this design and had a lower price but for whatever reason, it didn't fly. They still make this bar for other chassis though so you have to think if it made money, they would still offer the Z4M bar. Last I saw the Z4M bar on their site a couple years back I believe it was on closeout, which often indicates old stock. My guess is their factory MOQ is just too high relative to sales figures.

Manufacturing Cost / Demand = Price. If there's a relatively high manufacturing cost (i.e. hand made in USA) and low demand (how many Z4M in existence/how many owners modify them), you will have to pay to play. And of course, lower production items inherently require higher margins than cheaper items that fly off the shelf.

[MOEDARE]

I'm on the edge on this, wonder what the shipping would be to Sweden...

[Varinn]

FWIW I have a bit of history on this bar because I contacted and talked with Rogue about it a while ago, the guy I talked to said it essentially boiled down to cost/profit. The Z4 market is too small to justify continued support; notice how they no longer list ANY Z4 products? We are now resigned to using what happens to interchange between the e46/e36 platforms (front/rear suspension, etc).

The Mason bar is the same as the rogue engineering bar. From what I understood (and this is going back to a short phone conversation from a few months ago) Mason was contracted to manufacture the bar with the rights to sell their own, they had a disagreement where Mason wanted to increase pricing quite significantly and Rogue disagreed. They dumped the arrangement and moved the design to a different builder. Mason now has the Z4 product exclusive with RE exiting that market and Rogue has continued to build the more common products including the brace but through another fabrication shop.

All that being said this is in my opinion the best LOOKING bar on the market, I have no opinion on functionality or fitment because I've never used it. Mason makes quality stuff and so does Rogue. If I had the money I would hop on this in a second.

[tominizer]

Now see, yes I will remain a cheap bastard (relatively speaking as it's more about getting good value for the money) but it seems as if someone may want my OEM M-bar. And I'm all about change as it's fun. So there's a good chance I may hop on this boat ride now. I'll just over-charge the dude wanting my bar because that's what "relatively cheap bastards do......... right ??!?!?!?



(think this is considered flaming oneself........... yeah)

[Frank851]

Doe this SB reuse the Stock firewall braces, or are new ones included in this kit?

[inTgr8r]

Originally Posted by Frank851

Doe this SB reuse the Stock firewall braces, or are new ones included in this kit?

They are the OE braces

[rockstar93]

You can definitely add me to the list

[Frank851]

Add me to the list for steel/ or aluminum. Will purchase 1.

[tiltmode43]

Originally Posted by MOEDARE

I'm on the edge on this, wonder what the shipping would be to Sweden...

To be honest, I'm not sure. With a few more members on board we've got six, but I'd like to try and add a few more in case some need to drop out and if not, push for a more significant discount

Originally Posted by tominizer

Now see, yes I will remain a cheap bastard (relatively speaking as it's more about getting good value for the money) but it seems as if someone may want my OEM M-bar. And I'm all about change as it's fun. So there's a good chance I may hop on this boat ride now. I'll just over-charge the dude wanting my bar because that's what "relatively cheap bastards do......... right ??!?!?!?



(think this is considered flaming oneself........... yeah)

Haha yeah, modding is just crazy overall but relatively low prod qty cars like ours, it's even a little crazier. Changing things up is always fun though!

Originally Posted by rockstar93

You can definitely add me to the list

Added!

Originally Posted by Frank851

Add me to the list for steel/ or aluminum. Will purchase 1.

Added!

[Vanne]

Sweet..

[SyruSur]

Please add me to the list.

[GPower]

Add me in the list for aluminum one

[Frank851]

Bump, let's get this group buy going.

[rockstar93]

Seems like there's enough interest to have this pull through - perhaps a post in the Classifieds section can push it further (maybe for a further discount )

[Frank851]

Originally Posted by rockstar93

Seems like there's enough interest to have this pull through - perhaps a post in the Classifieds section can push it further (maybe for a further discount )

Rockstar:
Are you buying 2, one for the roadie and the coupe?

[rockstar93]

Originally Posted by Frank851

Rockstar:
Are you buying 2, one for the roadie and the coupe?

Just one for the coupe. It's lowered on coils and has many track days in it's future so I'd like to strengthen it up as much as I can.

If I decide to keep the roadie it'll likely stay close to stock and used for lighter duty so no need there.

[Sliktop]

put me down for an Aluminum one... Get this post to the Classifieds!