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      03-24-2017, 01:59 PM   #1
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Auto-X BSP Build. (Tips, Mods, Settings, Alignment)

Hello all. I thought I'd start a thread specific to the SCCA B Street Prepared Class. Maybe in the hopes that tips and mods specific to this class, and the optimization of our cars in this class can be shared. I realize that the Z is not the prime car for the BSP class, but it's a car I love

So Lets have it. What have you seen work well to properly prep the Z for this class?


I'll start, but know that I am woefully under prepped for the class, and really only have the wheels to thank for the bump from B Street.

Wheels: Enkei Kojin 18x9.5 Square
Tires: Bridgestone RE-71's 265/35 Square

Susp Mods: H&R springs (On the car when I got it), Camber washers to get camber needed for 265's.

Alignment: Will be looking for advice on Street/Auto-x alignment specs

Brakes: Stock everything for now, but will need advice on a quick grab/semi quiet pad

Aero: Not needed, but I love the look of the coupe with the APR GTC-200 (don't judge me ) Not sure how the 10" rule applies to our cars, or what the overall measurements of that spoiler are
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      03-24-2017, 04:38 PM   #2
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It's always in my mind been incredibly unfair that the Z4M has to bypass Street Touring and go straight to Street Prepared.

Welcome to the home of the S2000.....
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      03-24-2017, 06:24 PM   #3
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It's always in my mind been incredibly unfair that the Z4M has to bypass Street Touring and go straight to Street Prepared.

Welcome to the home of the S2000.....
I believe that is at least in part due to the lack of a back seat. With the beast that is a twin turbo N54 in my old 135i, I was able to compete in STU with the same wider wheels.

I'm pretty sure the 2009- Z4 35i falls into the same BSP class with the same motor as the 135i.
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      03-25-2017, 10:10 PM   #4
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I believe that is at least in part due to the lack of a back seat. With the beast that is a twin turbo N54 in my old 135i, I was able to compete in STU with the same wider wheels.

I'm pretty sure the 2009- Z4 35i falls into the same BSP class with the same motor as the 135i.
All the non-M E85/E86 can go to STR, the roadster class, so it's not lack of a back seat. Only the Z4M gets jumped past ST into SP. A couple people I spoke to at SCCA indicated the Z4M was viewed as a bit of an overdog in Street, but they didn't want to exclude a stock off the dealer floor model from Street class, but they also thought it would be over matched in A Street so it went into B with the non-M cars.
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      03-27-2017, 11:26 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal View Post
Hello all. I thought I'd start a thread specific to the SCCA B Street Prepared Class. Maybe in the hopes that tips and mods specific to this class, and the optimization of our cars in this class can be shared. I realize that the Z is not the prime car for the BSP class, but it's a car I love

So Lets have it. What have you seen work well to properly prep the Z for this class?


I'll start, but know that I am woefully under prepped for the class, and really only have the wheels to thank for the bump from B Street.

Wheels: Enkei Kojin 18x9.5 Square
Tires: Bridgestone RE-71's 265/35 Square

Susp Mods: H&R springs (On the car when I got it), Camber washers to get camber needed for 265's.

Alignment: Will be looking for advice on Street/Auto-x alignment specs

Brakes: Stock everything for now, but will need advice on a quick grab/semi quiet pad

Aero: Not needed, but I love the look of the coupe with the APR GTC-200 (don't judge me ) Not sure how the 10" rule applies to our cars, or what the overall measurements of that spoiler are

For alingment settings... do you plan to drive the car as daily? If daily i would say -2.5 camber/0 toe and -1.9-2.1 rear camber/1/16 total toe rear.

If it is more of a weekend toy i would stay around the same rear settings but bump the front camber t0 -3 or more depending on how the car handles.

The only issue you might have is clearnance issues between the top of the strut and the tire. When you use camber washer you effectively move the top of the tire closer to the strut to increase camber vs a camber plate that moves the strut and wheel in unison. So with that large tire you might be limited to the amount of camber you can run but i cant say for sure. When i ran the camber washers i was only running 245 front tire so i could basically max out the camber and still have clearnace. I am running a 275 front now and I would not be able to run the washers due to how tight the clearance is.

If you're looking for a good shop to do alignments in YYC check out my friends shop called "Haute AG".... I autoxed/tracked alot with him in college so he knows what you will be looking for. Just tell him Adam sent you
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      03-27-2017, 12:29 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by F360C View Post
For alingment settings... do you plan to drive the car as daily? If daily i would say -2.5 camber/0 toe and -1.9-2.1 rear camber/1/16 total toe rear.

If it is more of a weekend toy i would stay around the same rear settings but bump the front camber t0 -3 or more depending on how the car handles.
This is my Daily Driver, but I'm willing to sacrifice some comfort for the Auto-x cause. The square setup will tramline like a boss I'm sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F360C View Post
The only issue you might have is clearnance issues between the top of the strut and the tire. When you use camber washer you effectively move the top of the tire closer to the strut to increase camber vs a camber plate that moves the strut and wheel in unison. So with that large tire you might be limited to the amount of camber you can run but i cant say for sure. When i ran the camber washers i was only running 245 front tire so i could basically max out the camber and still have clearnace. I am running a 275 front now and I would not be able to run the washers due to how tight the clearance is.
I'll need to run a 5mm spacer to move out the tire from the strut. Of course the camber washers can be done in varying degrees as well. One 2.5mm washer or two, and I expect I'll have to play with it a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F360C View Post
If you're looking for a good shop to do alignments in YYC check out my friends shop called "Haute AG".... I autoxed/tracked alot with him in college so he knows what you will be looking for. Just tell him Adam sent you
I've been to Haute a few times and they have never done me wrong. I've also had very positive experiences with Sheni's. Both are readily accessible to me, one from home and the other from work.

I posted the schedule in the "Canada Subforum here, and also on Project Technik if you are there as well.
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      03-29-2017, 04:21 PM   #7
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I posted the schedule in the "Canada Subforum here, and also on Project Technik if you are there as well.
I actually live in New Jersey but Dan and I were roomates in college in Canada.
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      03-31-2017, 06:37 PM   #8
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So to bump this along...

I've read a fair about brake pads in the brakes section, but I'm focusing from a street/Autox viewpoint here, and thought I'd start the topic.

What are some thoughts on a good pad with initial good grip? I'm not so concerned about extreme fade, as I only do Autox for the moment. I also don't want a pad that needs warming up before getting a good level of grip.

What has worked for you all in the past, and what are you looking to moving forward?
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      03-31-2017, 10:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal View Post
So to bump this along...

I've read a fair about brake pads in the brakes section, but I'm focusing from a street/Autox viewpoint here, and thought I'd start the topic.

What are some thoughts on a good pad with initial good grip? I'm not so concerned about extreme fade, as I only do Autox for the moment. I also don't want a pad that needs warming up before getting a good level of grip.

What has worked for you all in the past, and what are you looking to moving forward?
I've used Hawk Street/Race and HP+, Performance Friction Z Rated, Ferodo DS2500, and currently running EBC Yellow. All of them have worked well for autoX. The Ferodo and EBC pads have been the cleanest, then the PFZR, and well the Hawks are what they are. The Ferodo and EBC have the best initial cold bite, but none of them have been a braking issue even on the first run on a cooler day.
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      04-04-2017, 06:20 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
I've used Hawk Street/Race and HP+, Performance Friction Z Rated, Ferodo DS2500, and currently running EBC Yellow. All of them have worked well for autoX. The Ferodo and EBC pads have been the cleanest, then the PFZR, and well the Hawks are what they are. The Ferodo and EBC have the best initial cold bite, but none of them have been a braking issue even on the first run on a cooler day.
Thanks for the info and it sounds like you have a lot of experience on the topic.

I was looking at the BlueStuff, and RedStuff pads, but I was worried that the YellowStuff pads would have been too noisy for the dual duty my car pulls.

I was also looking int the Akebono Ceramic pads, but haven't been sold that the brake power is hugely better than the stock pads. As I understand it though, they make no noise and almost no dust at all.

I have never considered the Ferodo pads and admittedly this is the first I've heard of them. It sounds like they may be the ticket for me as a cross section between performance/noise/ and dust (In order of importance).
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      04-08-2017, 10:53 AM   #11
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Garage List
I'm pretty certain I'm going to use BSP rules as a guide for my upgrades and below is my initial list. Right now, above all else, I'm trying to get a good solution for neck chaffing from the seatbelt. It's driving me insane... Super annoyed there can't be a "quick-fit" style harness and I'm not willing to go full cage/race seats in this car.

Ground Control Suspension: Spring Rates TBD
Coilovers with Race Camber plates
Sway bar set w/ Adj. end links
Hoping to source OEM front strut bar
Stainless brake lines, PFC or Hawk Pads, High-temp fluid
Replace mounts for engine & trans, but not sure which ones..
Rear Subframe, Diff and RTAB's will be AKG Poly 75D (was going to use these in my E46 M3, but I'm going straight to Metal where possible)
Wheels: Apex Arc-8 18x9.5 et35 Square
Tires: 265/35 Square (Hankook R-S3 for now, but Bridgestone next)

Engine Upgrades:
TMS Pulleys
Researching if I can do the IAT relocate, that could be helpful but not sure if rules allow.
Intake/Exhaust: Nothing for now... Shits too spendy to start with...

As for Aero, I like that GTC-200 wing as well paired with a front splitter, but I don't know if I care to do any of that to start...

I don't know what else I'm forgetting, but will check back on this thread periodically for updates.
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      04-08-2017, 09:20 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal View Post
Thanks for the info and it sounds like you have a lot of experience on the topic.

I was looking at the BlueStuff, and RedStuff pads, but I was worried that the YellowStuff pads would have been too noisy for the dual duty my car pulls.

I was also looking int the Akebono Ceramic pads, but haven't been sold that the brake power is hugely better than the stock pads. As I understand it though, they make no noise and almost no dust at all.

I have never considered the Ferodo pads and admittedly this is the first I've heard of them. It sounds like they may be the ticket for me as a cross section between performance/noise/ and dust (In order of importance).
Just to give you another data point, I ran the PDX today on the infield DE course at Daytona. The yellow stuff pads did just as well as the Hawk HP+ did when I tracked them, and they're actually very quiet. Not quite dust free like the Akebonos, but they're not very dusty. Certainly less than OEM pads, and nothing like the Hawks. These photos are after 4 twenty minute sessions today. With the Hawks the wheels would have been totally black. I still have the Ferodo pads on the rear, but I replaced them on the front because the retention spring on on the inside pads didn't fit into the caliper piston well. It allowed the pads to move out of the piston cup which pushed the caliper pistons further in. The result was a long brake pedal on the first push every time to close the gap, then a 2nd push got normal braking.
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      04-17-2017, 08:00 PM   #13
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Settings:

-------------------------Before-----------After
Front --------------left----right--------left----right
Caster---------- +6.10 +6.20 ---- +6.10 +6.20
Camber--------- - 3.70 -3.15 ----- -3.15 -3.10
Toe--------------- 0.00 0.00 -------- -.25 -.25

Rear
Camber---------------- -1.25 -2.85 -1.20 -2.80
Toe------------------0.00 +0.15 0.00 +0.15

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      04-17-2017, 11:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
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Settings:

Before After
Front left right left right
Caster +6.10 +6.20 +6.10 +6.20
Camber - 3.70 -3.15 -3.15 -3.10
Toe 0.00 -.25 0.00 -.25

Rear
Camber -1.25 -2.85 -1.20 -2.80
Toe 0.00 +0.15 0.00 +0.15

You went front camber from -3.7 to -3.1? Can I know why?
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      04-18-2017, 07:33 AM   #15
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You went front camber from -3.7 to -3.1? Can I know why?
Looks like they just adjusted the left side camber to match it up with the right side.

The toe readings are what's strange. Typically for autoX you run zero toe to slightly toed out in the front for good turn in. If the car is a street driver zero toe is what you'd run. If you're trailering it to events then you can experiment with toe out, but the tramlining in regular driving with toe out is pretty extreme. Rear toe is zero to slightly toed in depending on the car and whether it needs the rear loosened up for better rotation. The specs shown indicate toed in on the front and toed OUT on the rear. If those toe specs are correct it will be interesting to see what the driving results are.
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      04-19-2017, 11:17 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
Looks like they just adjusted the left side camber to match it up with the right side.

The toe readings are what's strange. Typically for autoX you run zero toe to slightly toed out in the front for good turn in. If the car is a street driver zero toe is what you'd run. If you're trailering it to events then you can experiment with toe out, but the tramlining in regular driving with toe out is pretty extreme. Rear toe is zero to slightly toed in depending on the car and whether it needs the rear loosened up for better rotation. The specs shown indicate toed in on the front and toed OUT on the rear. If those toe specs are correct it will be interesting to see what the driving results are.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure I screwed up the numbers when copying them from the sheet. Its definitely toed out slightly up front and in on the rear. I don't have the sheet with me and I'll adjust it when I can.

The camber was adjusted to match from side to side now that I have the camber washers in place. I'm waiting on my 9.5" wheels and 265's to adjust the final camber for fitment.


EDIT:

Damn my day. Barely holding my head on straight. That's all correct from before.
-.25 degrees toe out on the front, and +.15 toe in on the rear.
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      04-26-2017, 01:42 PM   #17
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I've been debating the switch back to the stock springs for the moment. They appear to be in good condition, and the H&R springs seem to be more for the look than the performance. I have never driven on the stock springs so I have nothing to compare it to.

Has anyone here done an autocross on both these setups?


As an aside I'm still hunting for my wheels. A shop failed to order them or follow up with the distributor for 6 weeks. Here I am missing two events and the wheels are actually no closer to me than they were 6 weeks ago.
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      05-03-2017, 02:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal View Post
Settings:

-------------------------Before-----------After
Front --------------left----right--------left----right
Caster---------- +6.10 +6.20 ---- +6.10 +6.20
Camber--------- - 3.70 -3.15 ----- -3.15 -3.10
Toe--------------- 0.00 0.00 -------- -.25 -.25

Rear
Camber---------------- -1.25 -2.85 -1.20 -2.80
Toe------------------0.00 +0.15 0.00 +0.15

Your rear camber is still uneven. You sure it wasn't -1.25 | -1.20 -> -2.85 | -2.80

Same would apply to rear toe...
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      05-03-2017, 05:53 PM   #19
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Your rear camber is still uneven. You sure it wasn't -1.25 | -1.20 -> -2.85 | -2.80

Same would apply to rear toe...
Spot on. It's -2.85 and -2.80 currently right and left. Same with toe.
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      06-08-2017, 01:27 PM   #20
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So my first Auto-x in BSP is in the books with a 14th overall (Only 50 participants) in Raw time.

So far my thoughts are that the car is woefully under prepped for the class still, but has made a tremendous improvement from last year with the alignment, lighter wheels and new sticky rubber.

I have dialed out the under steer almost completely and found her to be very neutral, with just a hint of over steer when I mash the loud pedal at the right time. The brakes are one of my next things to look at as the stopping power just wasn't where it needs to be, and I scrubbed time in the slower elements in the course.

I also dB'd at 72, and feel that I shouldn't go over the max allowable of 94 if I delete the mufflers from the car. It should free up an additional 35'ish pounds from under the bumper.

This weekend is another event but it will be the tight technical course due to the location.

Learning to back end the cones is coming along too.
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      06-09-2017, 11:47 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal View Post
So my first Auto-x in BSP is in the books with a 14th overall (Only 50 participants) in Raw time.

So far my thoughts are that the car is woefully under prepped for the class still, but has made a tremendous improvement from last year with the alignment, lighter wheels and new sticky rubber.

I have dialed out the under steer almost completely and found her to be very neutral, with just a hint of over steer when I mash the loud pedal at the right time. The brakes are one of my next things to look at as the stopping power just wasn't where it needs to be, and I scrubbed time in the slower elements in the course.

I also dB'd at 72, and feel that I shouldn't go over the max allowable of 94 if I delete the mufflers from the car. It should free up an additional 35'ish pounds from under the bumper.

This weekend is another event but it will be the tight technical course due to the location.

Learning to back end the cones is coming along too.
Sounds like you've got the set up just about right for autoX! Ideally you'd like just a bit of off throttle over steer, but not so much that you can't regain traction by getting back on the gas. I deleted the muffler on my 3.0si and it registers about 90dB max at the 50 foot distance they typically monitor at so I'd expect you'll be good for the 94 limit. Your M should have more than enough braking power for autocross with the stock system, what pads are you running?
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      06-09-2017, 01:21 PM   #22
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... Your M should have more than enough braking power for autocross with the stock system, what pads are you running?
I'm just running the stock pads at the moment, however I'm looking into a set of G-Loc R6's.
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