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      04-27-2010, 09:03 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Have you actually driven on a track before?
If you consider playing Forza 3 driving on a track then yes he most likely did.
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      04-27-2010, 09:42 PM   #68
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      05-03-2010, 09:39 PM   #69
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Oh God, I can't believe I'm getting involved in this, but here goes. Should be in line with those that know though. I'm no expert, but I did hang around with a bunch for nearly two years of racing seasons (and I did stay in a Holiday Inn...)

I was on pit crew for a Grand Am Koni GS team for two years. The first year we had four cars, D. Law of Brumos drove for us, among others (Andrew Davis, Milner Jr., shall I go on?) so yeah, a bunch of guys that you could say knew what they were doing. I have seen first hand telemetry coming off the cars - they do not kick in the clutch at the end of a straight under braking. To the dude or whomever else thinks this is done and is the right way, I'd recommend going to find your source and thank him or her for being a complete dumb ass and making you look like one two.

I really wanted to address that A. Senna vid - is it just me, or does anyone else think he ends up with his heel on the floor board during breaking? I had to watch it a time or two but I think he drops his heel to the floor for a reference point, in addition to the high likelihood that he does swing that knee to the left to change the geometry at his ankle. This is what has worked best for me, but I still struggle with the "floating foot" with out my heel on the floor. If you're on the brakes as hard as possible then sure, that is as good of a fixed reference point as the floor, but lets face it, you're not always on the brakes 100+% and that is when I find I am smoother and more controlled under braking with my heel on the floor for a reference point.

In the Senna vid, it just seems like the shoe is always at the same height in the video frame that I wondered if maybe he did have his heel on the floor.
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      06-09-2010, 06:52 PM   #70
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Originally Posted by zeroselect View Post
You should have your clutch depressed at the moment of braking. If you don't release the engine from the drivetrain you not only be braking to reduce the motion of the car but also your engine as well. Some might think that "engine braking" would help the car decclerate faster but it does the exact opposite.
Why would you want to ride the clutch and free-wheel it heading into a turn while threshold braking? Who said anything about using the engine to slow your car down? Not me. Engine braking is a very subtle technique and can be helpful with rotation heading into a turn...there are times when it works just as good or better than trail braking...I use it accordingly. Generally though, when braking at threshold the engine isn't doing all that much to slow you down and one should not depend on the engine for that purpose.

Simple procedure...Brake to slow the car (at or near threshold)...depress the clutch and blip almost simultaneaously...downshift and smoothly release the clutch as the rpms fall. Come totally off the brakes just before turn-in or trail them off while entering the turn if desired. The heel-toe takes only fractions of a second if done right and should be smooth as butter.

Casual heel-toe while driving around town is really hit and miss...the electronics and brake setup (if you use dedicated pads and rotors for the track) will make it respond differently than you would like and could screw up your timing. I actually find it easier to heel-toe with my performance setup in a threshold braking situation at the track than I do on the street with typical street gear.

YMMV. I don't see what all the debate is about.
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      06-09-2010, 07:40 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by AusTTin Bob View Post
Wow. This is some heated heel and toe talk. I'm still no good at heel and toeing my M Coupe. Got it down like second nature in my Spec Miata, and almost have it in the Elise. All's I was gonna suggest is don't be shy about adjusting pedals or bolting blocks or extensions to your pedals to suit your needs. If it works, it works...
You ever go out to Driveway Austin? I spend alot of time out there. Only frequent Harris Hill on occassion.
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      10-18-2010, 04:32 PM   #72
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also approx 5'6, i wear a 10 1/2 puma driving shoe. only the left edge of my foot is on the brake and i roll my ankle to blip the throttle. took some getting used to because i initially tried the traditional teqnique which only led to frustration, but i found the alternate method works well
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      10-19-2010, 06:44 AM   #73
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i heel toed this weekend for the first time and it went pretty well sometimes hited the brakes to heavy while toeing :

Have a question how much do u push the rpm up when u heel toe.?

P.S. I didnt find it difficult to heel toe with the spurt button on.
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      10-19-2010, 08:13 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZM4000 View Post
Have a question how much do u push the rpm up when u heel toe.?

it takes a while to develop a feel for how much, it depends on which gear you're down shifting into and how fast you're going. higher speed for the same gear requires more throttle to properly match the revs with the cars speed.
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      04-23-2017, 05:40 PM   #75
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I'm fairly new to this site/Z4MR-first day with HT

I've enjoyed reading this now 7 year old post. Wonder how many of you still own their cars and track them ? After reading most of this thread and the troll kid know-it-all or whatever....I'm a really sarcastic/dry humor person so I enjoyed the banter....hilarious !
Today I truly heel-toed for a couple hours. Every stop and wonderful "rural" road near me....Here in Pinellas Co ( St Pete/Clearwater FL ) there is no real rural anymore, but the is a road with horse farms, nurseries etc and it's got 2 SUGGESTED 20 MPH curves, plus one BANKED SUGGESTED 15 MPH turn, all within 1.5 miles. 10 minutes from the house. For the last 13 years I've been driving my 1972 BRE Tribute with a custom built ( by me ) 3.1 Stroker. Z FEVER RACING did the heavy lifting/Blue Printed Balanced IT"S FOR SALE IN THE CLASSIFIEDS NOW ! $ 20 K ! I knocked $ 5K off for this forum. Love to see her go to a good home....Anyway I've been driving ALL WRONG my whole life. I've watched countless videos on all track related driving as well as I starting Autocrossing on an airport runway. I also found out I'm not that fast ( compared to serious AXer's which I expected. I did way better my second one, going to do my third in 2 months. I understand backsiding cones, early/late apexing. Even have been practicing the last 3 weeks LEFT foot braking. Been getting some good feedback on this forum. Thinking about getting ULTIMATE PEDALS now. My heel-toe today was....well like my first day was expected to be...shaky at best, dangerous at worst ( Brake-Gas together when being late on dropping the clutch ). A few times my rev match, clutch release was perfect...that was sweet. I would imagine a whole different story if going from 100 + MPH and needing to slow to 35 MPH in a tight curve from a straightaway. I'm now going to rev match heel-toe in nearly all my driving to get it down. My goal is SEBRING within a year !
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Last edited by JJZ4MR; 04-23-2017 at 10:31 PM..
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