hating my M.....

[mousitch]

Ahh....The Porsche sympathizer. Who cares about the Boxster vs Z4M? Really? I thought this thread was to help the OP find out what was wrong with his BMW so he can get some joy out of it.

[RBull]

^it would be nice to try and help for sure.

[mousitch]

I think O-cha might be helpful with the sound clip. If I were you I might PM it to him. Still think it might be the air pump connection.

[RBull]

I agree it sounds exhaust related.

[Z3Z4MC]

If this was an exhaust leak it has to be near the manifold to be this loud. Almost sounds like a spun bearing. Again, good luck. Hope you find out the problem real soon and get it fixed so you can keep and enjoy the car.

[AtoB]

thanks guys... we were getting a bit off subject. i am pretty sure it is not exhaust related... i looked it over... saw and heard nothing that lead me believe its the exhaust. it is coming from under that left side black plastic engine cover.
i actually was hoping OCHA might have seen this thread and share his opinion... i think i'll take that advice and shoot him a PM. i have officially had 5 people ask what the deal was with my engine...

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by shift@red

Dont mean to go off topic, but i just hate when people say things about cars theyve probably never driven and certainly havnt driven on a track. I have a problem keeping my mouth shut about things im passionate about or know a lot about, in this car, both. I dont sympathize, i just happen to like the best!

OP...demand the problem get fixed. be a PITA about it. call them, bring the car in, complain ANY time it happens and maybe eventually they will give in and fix it.

no problem!

and i plan on raising hell.
and i've gotta say, i drove a 2010 boxster S.... damn nice car... probably my next.

[chickdr]

Originally Posted by shitbrownMcoupe

It gives an impression like, you wanna own a porsche but you can't afford one... like I said, unless you're a rich lady walking out of those types of cars... then it's ok...

What kind of a comment is this???? The Z4M is FAR from the nicest M car BMW makes. The Boxster/Cayman have the lowest weight and mid engine design which gives the best handling of all the P-cars. I happen to like the looks as well( I drove an 02 2.7 for 4 yrs). The Z4? It took several years for me to even consider test driving one due to its looks. Back in 06 I went to the dealer to check out the face lifted car and told the salesman I didn't even need to test drive it as I did not like the styling...

[Blind32]

I think we need a Sticky'd "Z4M Vs Boxster/Cayman" thread so we can point people there whenever they feel the need to discuss/argue this topic. Should include a warning to check all feelings at the door and to keep it somewhat civil so no one gets butt hurt.

When the car is nice and COOL!, you could check for an exhaust leak by having a buddy cover the tailpipes with rags and their hands while you listen for an increase in sound anywhere along the exhaust pipes.

Disclaimer: I've never done this but read it before on a forum so take from it what you will. Maybe someone else can back this "test" up.

[O-cha]

It's def NOT normal, besides that can't tell you much without knowing the exact area it's coming from. That does not sound like vanos either, that's usually more tiny and more often.

First thing make sure you have it heavily recorded that you have been complaining and they refuse to fix it. Also, take it to another service center for double butt coverage.

After that call BMW NA, try to get them to push it through, if they wont get that in writing.

Finally take it to an independent shop, get them to fix it, then go back to BMW.


Blind I doubt that would work, best method is using a stethoscope with an open tube.

OP use a regular mechanics stethoscope to try and pinpoint where under the valve cover it's coming from.,

[lucid]

I took mine to dealer for what appears to be a VANOS noise during cold operation. You rev it to 2500 rpm, get off the throttle, and as it revs down from 2000 to 1500, there is a rattle (in or out of gear). Once it warms up, it is gone.

I was initially told they emailed BMW NA and were told not to do anything about it and that it is normal. Then, I said how can anyone diagnose a noise they haven't heard over email? Then, they arranged for the BMW rep to listen to it in person (the service manager at the dealer is a friend and a great guy, so not his fault). The rep listened to it, and said it is not normal and that they should take the VANOS cover off to inspect it. They did and found nothing wrong with it, and adjusted the valves. Then they said they listened to another Z4M and it was also making noise. So, the field rep, armed with this new knowledge, all of a sudden decides that the noise is normal and that they should not investigate any further.

I am now about to ask if it has ever occured to them that the other car that was also making noise might have also been having an issue as well? This is pure nonsense from BMW NA. This is a car that was sold at $50k+ and is still under OEM warranty.

I am not worried as I have 2 more years of OEM warranty and 2 years of CPO coverage after that. The noise is not very annoying and goes away quickly, but I'd like to find a fix for it. If anyone knows anything about this, please let me know.

The annoying part is that I might need to sell the car to fund some projects, but it won't be easy to sell it like this (despite the warranty coverage and the high likehood that the noise is indeed not a big deal).

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by lucid

I took mine to dealer for what appears to be a VANOS noise during cold operation. You rev it to 2500 rpm, get off the throttle, and as it revs down from 2000 to 1500, there is a rattle (in or out of gear). Once it warms up, it is gone.

I was initially told they emailed BMW NA and were told not to do anything about it and that it is normal. Then, I said how can anyone diagnose a noise they haven't heard over email? Then, they arranged for the BMW rep to listen to it in person (the service manager at the dealer is a friend and a great guy, so not his fault). The rep listened to it, and said it is not normal and that they should take the VANOS cover off to inspect it. They did and found nothing wrong with it, and adjusted the valves. Then they said they listened to another Z4M and it was also making noise. So, the field rep, armed with this new knowledge, all of a sudden decides that the noise is normal and that they should not investigate any further.

I am now about to ask if it has ever occured to them that the other car that was also making noise might have also been having an issue as well? This is pure nonsense from BMW NA. This is a car that was sold at $50k+ and is still under OEM warranty.

I am not worried as I have 2 more years of OEM warranty and 2 years of CPO coverage after that. The noise is not very annoying and goes away quickly, but I'd like to find a fix for it. If anyone knows anything about this, please let me know.

The annoying part is that I might need to sell the car to fund some projects, but it won't be easy to sell it like this (despite the warranty coverage and the high likehood that the noise is indeed not a big deal).

sounds like different problem... mine never goes away... fairly constant. did you go to a boston dealer?

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by O-cha

It's def NOT normal, besides that can't tell you much without knowing the exact area it's coming from. That does not sound like vanos either, that's usually more tiny and more often.

First thing make sure you have it heavily recorded that you have been complaining and they refuse to fix it. Also, take it to another service center for double butt coverage.

After that call BMW NA, try to get them to push it through, if they wont get that in writing.

Finally take it to an independent shop, get them to fix it, then go back to BMW.


Blind I doubt that would work, best method is using a stethoscope with an open tube.

OP use a regular mechanics stethoscope to try and pinpoint where under the valve cover it's coming from.,

i have no reference for what the 'vanos noise' sounds like. when it was initially diagnosed it was all rasp... knocking came a few days later. i am taking it thursday to another dealer... one with what i am told is much better techs and a buddy on the inside. now, if i am forced to to go to an independent... how/why would BMW repay me? i have compiled a long list from everyones suggestions and thoughts here... i'll be bringing them ALL with me. thanks!

[Z3Z4MC]

Originally Posted by AtoB

thanks guys... we were getting a bit off subject. i am pretty sure it is not exhaust related... i looked it over... saw and heard nothing that lead me believe its the exhaust. it is coming from under that left side black plastic engine cover.
i actually was hoping OCHA might have seen this thread and share his opinion... i think i'll take that advice and shoot him a PM. i have officially had 5 people ask what the deal was with my engine...

I was just feeding into the idea of an exhaust leak. I could have told you that there is no way that has anything to do with exhaust leak. From listening to the sound clip again, the engine sounds terrible. Definitely something majorly wrong with it. Did you try pulling the spark plugs and see how they look. Doesn't hurt to do a leak down test while you have the plugs out. At least you can rule out a few things if the leak down numbers are good.

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by Z3Z4MC

I was just feeding into the idea of an exhaust leak. I could have told you that there is no way that has anything to do with exhaust leak. From listening to the sound clip again, the engine sounds terrible. Definitely something majorly wrong with it. Did you try pulling the spark plugs and see how they look. Doesn't hurt to do a leak down test while you have the plugs out. At least you can rule out a few things if the leak down numbers are good.

i'll add it to the list! thanks!

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by AtoB

i think i got it.... and that is recorded with the hood up and me standing in front of the car about a foot back...

I have no idea what that is other than it sounds like a badly tuned lawn mower engine. I can hear why you hate it. Totally not normal. I don't think it's fair to say you hate the M--I think what you really hate is crappy service and that's leading you to hate the M (same end, but the distinction is important as it feeds into what I see as a larger issue with BMW and their brand).

I came to the conclusion quite some time ago that the quality of service, and warranty related work in particular, from BMW dealers in NA is terrible in a lot of cases. Problems go undiagnosed--or simply ignored (as in Lucid's case) and the "party line" is "that's normal operation" even in cases that are so extreme (like this one) that it's nothing more than a bad joke. I'm convinced the economic situation isn't helping any, but it's certainly not the primary cause. Poor training, poor direction from corporate, and a bunch of other things are all driving what is a too commonplace experience for the BMW owner. (Just ask M3 DCT owners, or 335 owners with wastegate/programmed turbo lag [or fuel pump problems].) There's a pattern here that's too common and too large to simply ignore or pass off as a few "bad apple dealerships". Something else is seriously wrong.

This really takes a toll on the brand and makes the "free maintenance" and warranty coverage provided by this company pretty worthless. I haven't personally experienced any issues, but it does give me serious pause in thinking of purchasing another vehicle from BMW in the future.

[Dammmittt]

Originally Posted by AtoB

i just hit 32K... so i have a while.... but i will ask about 're-shimming'.
the rasp happens al the way from 1000-3500 rpm.

How are you at 32k miles and haven't had Inspection I yet?

[lucid]

Originally Posted by AtoB

sounds like different problem... mine never goes away... fairly constant. did you go to a boston dealer?

Yes, the noise I hear is nothing like the one in the clip you posted. I posted mainly to illustrate the point Finnegan makes below. I will PM you about the dealer.

[steveff4]

Originally Posted by Dammmittt

How are you at 32k miles and haven't had Inspection I yet?

Exactly what I was thinking! You're overdue for Inspection I, which includes checking valve clearances.

And I'll just chime in with agreement that the sound is definitely not normal. Why don't you post up the dealer name that claimed this was normal VANOS noise so we can all be sure to avoid them for service!

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by Dammmittt

How are you at 32k miles and haven't had Inspection I yet?

i think that i had my '30K' service done a few 'K' before 30... so it has probably been about 4-5K since... sorry for the confusion.

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by steveff4

Exactly what I was thinking! You're overdue for Inspection I, which includes checking valve clearances.

And I'll just chime in with agreement that the sound is definitely not normal. Why don't you post up the dealer name that claimed this was normal VANOS noise so we can all be sure to avoid them for service!

if it turns out the other dealer finds the last dealer missed the issue completely, and should have caught the problem... i will be sharing their name as well as some 'inside' information i learned about them which will keep me from going back.

[AtoB]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

I have no idea what that is other than it sounds like a badly tuned lawn mower engine. I can hear why you hate it. Totally not normal. I don't think it's fair to say you hate the M--I think what you really hate is crappy service and that's leading you to hate the M (same end, but the distinction is important as it feeds into what I see as a larger issue with BMW and their brand).

I came to the conclusion quite some time ago that the quality of service, and warranty related work in particular, from BMW dealers in NA is terrible in a lot of cases. Problems go undiagnosed--or simply ignored (as in Lucid's case) and the "party line" is "that's normal operation" even in cases that are so extreme (like this one) that it's nothing more than a bad joke. I'm convinced the economic situation isn't helping any, but it's certainly not the primary cause. Poor training, poor direction from corporate, and a bunch of other things are all driving what is a too commonplace experience for the BMW owner. (Just ask M3 DCT owners, or 335 owners with wastegate/programmed turbo lag [or fuel pump problems].) There's a pattern here that's too common and too large to simply ignore or pass off as a few "bad apple dealerships". Something else is seriously wrong.

This really takes a toll on the brand and makes the "free maintenance" and warranty coverage provided by this company pretty worthless. I haven't personally experienced any issues, but it does give me serious pause in thinking of purchasing another vehicle from BMW in the future.

agreed... i'm mostly pissed that i was pretty much told that 'it is what it is' from my dealer... that isn't sitting well with me at all.