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      11-14-2019, 10:18 AM   #1
ChiBimmer
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Z4M vs.

So I asked the E90 M3 group their thoughts on Camaros and a couple guys lost their shit because I put it in the M3 general subforum instead of the VS. one. Anyway where do you guys talk about your cars vs other cars?

Btw I don't own a Z4M but it's a bucket list car and I hope to have one in the next few years.
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      11-14-2019, 12:03 PM   #2
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The Z4M was certainly compared against a lot of cars upon its initial launch in 2006 - Porsche Boxster/Cayman, BMW E46 M3, etc.

Nowadays comparison generally is against other BMW enthusiast models (1M, E9X M3, Z3M) unless by a previous (or current) Z4M owner. Lots of folks on this forum have sports cars from other makes and happily extol the pros/cons versus their BMW experience.

The Camaro 1LE and Mustang GT350 are outstanding cars. In terms of ownership, the value proposition as a Z4M replacement is still not there for me. As an addition to the current garage - absolutely yes.
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      11-14-2019, 12:30 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Zed View Post
The Z4M was certainly compared against a lot of cars upon its initial launch in 2006 - Porsche Boxster/Cayman, BMW E46 M3, etc.

Nowadays comparison generally is against other BMW enthusiast models (1M, E9X M3, Z3M) unless by a previous (or current) Z4M owner. Lots of folks on this forum have sports cars from other makes and happily extol the pros/cons versus their BMW experience.

The Camaro 1LE and Mustang GT350 are outstanding cars. In terms of ownership, the value proposition as a Z4M replacement is still not there for me. As an addition to the current garage - absolutely yes.
Well said - Same here. As much as I like and want a Camaro 1LE or Mustang GT350, I can't get myself to sell the Z4MC. I would add one in a heartbeat if I have garage space for one
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      11-14-2019, 01:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMetal View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Zed View Post
The Z4M was certainly compared against a lot of cars upon its initial launch in 2006 - Porsche Boxster/Cayman, BMW E46 M3, etc.

Nowadays comparison generally is against other BMW enthusiast models (1M, E9X M3, Z3M) unless by a previous (or current) Z4M owner. Lots of folks on this forum have sports cars from other makes and happily extol the pros/cons versus their BMW experience.

The Camaro 1LE and Mustang GT350 are outstanding cars. In terms of ownership, the value proposition as a Z4M replacement is still not there for me. As an addition to the current garage - absolutely yes.
Well said - Same here. As much as I like and want a Camaro 1LE or Mustang GT350, I can't get myself to sell the Z4MC. I would add one in a heartbeat if I have garage space for one
Cool! Sounds like this subforum is the right place. I'm a few years away from getting a second two seater. I rented a Z4MR last summer and I was blown away. I expected an M car to be good but this was on another level. Here's my question and I think you guys are going to say yes, we get it. The E46 M3 is great but the Z4M improves on it almost every way. Better chassis, seating position, quicker steering rack, brakes, subframe... the E46 has a back seat I guess. The asking prices of E46 M3s are generally lower but the conditions are worse. Holding condition the same, the Z4MC is about the same price as E46 M3C. The Z4MR is still better than the eE46 coupe and it's a steal. It's crazy that the prices are almost comparable, right?
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      11-14-2019, 01:33 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Cool! Sounds like this subforum is the right place. I'm a few years away from getting a second two seater. I rented a Z4MR last summer and I was blown away. I expected an M car to be good but this was on another level. Here's my question and I think you guys are going to say yes, we get it. The E46 M3 is great but the Z4M improves on it almost every way. Better chassis, seating position, quicker steering rack, brakes, subframe... the E46 has a back seat I guess. The asking prices of E46 M3s are generally lower but the conditions are worse. Holding condition the same, the Z4MC is about the same price as E46 M3C. The Z4MR is still better than the eE46 coupe and it's a steal. It's crazy that the prices are almost comparable, right?

I think you already know the answer after your rental test drive The Z4MR is a hidden gem in today's market.
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      11-14-2019, 02:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XMetal View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Cool! Sounds like this subforum is the right place. I'm a few years away from getting a second two seater. I rented a Z4MR last summer and I was blown away. I expected an M car to be good but this was on another level. Here's my question and I think you guys are going to say yes, we get it. The E46 M3 is great but the Z4M improves on it almost every way. Better chassis, seating position, quicker steering rack, brakes, subframe... the E46 has a back seat I guess. The asking prices of E46 M3s are generally lower but the conditions are worse. Holding condition the same, the Z4MC is about the same price as E46 M3C. The Z4MR is still better than the eE46 coupe and it's a steal. It's crazy that the prices are almost comparable, right?

I think you already know the answer after your rental test drive The Z4MR is a hidden gem in today's market.
I'm in the market for four seater and seeing tons of janky E46 M3 for $15k to $25k. Meanwhile I'm sure there great condition ZMR out there. Btw I had it for three days. Loved it.
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      11-14-2019, 04:45 PM   #7
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I have a tundra, the wife drives and F10 M5 and I will be trading in the Z4MR for a GT350 in the spring. I love my Z4MR but being 6'2" , 240lbs I need something with a little more room. 😁
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      11-14-2019, 06:25 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by JimBob0047 View Post
I have a tundra, the wife drives and F10 M5 and I will be trading in the Z4MR for a GT350 in the spring. I love my Z4MR but being 6'2" , 240lbs I need something with a little more room. 😁
I've been test driving Camaros and I loved the 1LE. Everyone says the GT350 is even better. Enjoy it!
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      11-14-2019, 06:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimBob0047 View Post
I have a tundra, the wife drives and F10 M5 and I will be trading in the Z4MR for a GT350 in the spring. I love my Z4MR but being 6'2" , 240lbs I need something with a little more room. 😁
I've been test driving Camaros and I loved the 1LE. Everyone says the GT350 is even better. Enjoy it!
It's the same debate for me. 1LE has a lot more useable power band on the street and is faster and I would definitely get the 10speed but for me it's about the occasion when driving and nothing beats a screaming NA motor mated to a rifle bolt precise tremec 6 speed.
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      11-15-2019, 03:32 PM   #10
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Imagine wanting to compare a 13 year old sports car to a modern day muscle car. Says a lot for the Z4M.
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      11-15-2019, 05:02 PM   #11
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I always pinned the Z4M against the following:

135i/is
E46 M3
S2000
987S, 996 (non-S, non-turbo)
SLK 55 AMG
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      11-15-2019, 06:12 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
I always pinned the Z4M against the following:
No TTS/TTRS?
(of course these are haldex awd cars)
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      11-15-2019, 06:35 PM   #13
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No TTS/TTRS?
(of course these are haldex awd cars)
Haldex aside I still never considered them a direct competitor though I’m sure others would. The MK2 TTS seems more comparable to the 3.0si and MK3 RS is just too new and not really a fair comparison imo.
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      11-15-2019, 06:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3002 tii View Post
I always pinned the Z4M against the following:

135i/is
E46 M3
S2000
987S, 996 (non-S, non-turbo)
SLK 55 AMG
Hehe... I personally compared it to C6 Z06
Loved both of them. But thought I'd have more fun in Z4M especially on public roads.

PS: and of course my previous 335is, F82 M4 (a friend' car), S2K, and the same set of Porsches

Last edited by vt100; 11-15-2019 at 07:06 PM..
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      11-17-2019, 10:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmrbee View Post
Imagine wanting to compare a 13 year old sports car to a modern day muscle car. Says a lot for the Z4M.
As 86Zed said earlier there's nothing out there that I would feel happy about replacing my Z4MR with. I'm super excited that the 718 Spyder now has a proper engine but it lost an easy to deploy power roof as a result. Total California car.

Of the many things I've come to appreciate about the Z4M, especially since getting my 991.1, is that it is the perfect size. All these cars that you are comparing it with are BOATS in comparison. Add that to the fact that its actually extremely comfortable compared to other small sports cars and you have a winner. Haven't even gotten to the characterful engine and chassis yet. The S2000 is right up there in terms of fun but is the most uncomfortable ride I've ever been in and has to be disqualified.

Its a winning package for a fraction of the cost of some newer cars. And for those of us who have other cars around us when we want to switch it up well we get best of all worlds. Easily best bang for buck value I've ever spent on a car. I wanted one for 10+ years as a young college grad and when I finally got one it was all I dreamed it was and more.
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      11-17-2019, 12:16 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Cool! Sounds like this subforum is the right place. I'm a few years away from getting a second two seater. I rented a Z4MR last summer and I was blown away. I expected an M car to be good but this was on another level. Here's my question and I think you guys are going to say yes, we get it. The E46 M3 is great but the Z4M improves on it almost every way. Better chassis, seating position, quicker steering rack, brakes, subframe... the E46 has a back seat I guess. The asking prices of E46 M3s are generally lower but the conditions are worse. Holding condition the same, the Z4MC is about the same price as E46 M3C. The Z4MR is still better than the eE46 coupe and it's a steal. It's crazy that the prices are almost comparable, right?
I've got a Z4MR and agree it's one of the bargains of the M cars IMO. I also happen to think it's more of an event to drive than the E46 or any other M3 to be honest. For the same price, I'd pick the Z4M every time.

Regarding the American muscle cars, they're just not for me. Not saying that they are not bargains, or that they have all the performance in the world, but physically, they're just huge. I sat in a Mustang is that it feels much bigger than my E92 M3, but the rear seats were tiny.

Personally, my end goal is to add a Porsche. Considering a 997 of some type and a 981 Porsche Spyder (which would replace the Z4MR). Problem though, is that it's 4x more expensive, which I can't currently justify at all.
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      11-17-2019, 04:31 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmrbee View Post
Imagine wanting to compare a 13 year old sports car to a modern day muscle car. Says a lot for the Z4M.
As 86Zed said earlier there's nothing out there that I would feel happy about replacing my Z4MR with. I'm super excited that the 718 Spyder now has a proper engine but it lost an easy to deploy power roof as a result. Total California car.

Of the many things I've come to appreciate about the Z4M, especially since getting my 991.1, is that it is the perfect size. All these cars that you are comparing it with are BOATS in comparison. Add that to the fact that its actually extremely comfortable compared to other small sports cars and you have a winner. Haven't even gotten to the characterful engine and chassis yet. The S2000 is right up there in terms of fun but is the most uncomfortable ride I've ever been in and has to be disqualified.

Its a winning package for a fraction of the cost of some newer cars. And for those of us who have other cars around us when we want to switch it up well we get best of all worlds. Easily best bang for buck value I've ever spent on a car. I wanted one for 10+ years as a young college grad and when I finally got one it was all I dreamed it was and more.
When I picked up the ZMR I rented I was surprised how little it was. I looked it up and, yep, virtually the same dimensions as my S2000. It looks bigger in photos.

I need a 2nd car winter and occasionally taking some teenagers to school. The 1LE is the best that I've driven but the visibility is bad and it's huge. Same footprint as my wife's Cayenne. I do a mix of city and suburb driving. If lived in a more rural place it might make sense. Still I tend to like smaller cars.
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      11-17-2019, 05:10 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmrbee View Post
Imagine wanting to compare a 13 year old sports car to a modern day muscle car. Says a lot for the Z4M.
As 86Zed said earlier there's nothing out there that I would feel happy about replacing my Z4MR with. I'm super excited that the 718 Spyder now has a proper engine but it lost an easy to deploy power roof as a result. Total California car.

Of the many things I've come to appreciate about the Z4M, especially since getting my 991.1, is that it is the perfect size. All these cars that you are comparing it with are BOATS in comparison. Add that to the fact that its actually extremely comfortable compared to other small sports cars and you have a winner. Haven't even gotten to the characterful engine and chassis yet. The S2000 is right up there in terms of fun but is the most uncomfortable ride I've ever been in and has to be disqualified.

Its a winning package for a fraction of the cost of some newer cars. And for those of us who have other cars around us when we want to switch it up well we get best of all worlds. Easily best bang for buck value I've ever spent on a car. I wanted one for 10+ years as a young college grad and when I finally got one it was all I dreamed it was and more.
When I picked up the ZMR I rented I was surprised how little it was. I looked it up and, yep, virtually the same dimensions as my S2000. It looks bigger in photos.

I need a 2nd car winter and occasionally taking some teenagers to school. The 1LE is the best that I've driven but the visibility is bad and it's huge. Same footprint as my wife's Cayenne. I do a mix of city and suburb driving. If lived in a more rural place it might make sense. Still I tend to like smaller cars.
Need a winter car to transport the kids?
With the money you would spend on the Chevy, buy a used minivan and an E85 Z4MR and I'll bet you may even have some leftover. Plus you'll have a sports car with character.
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      11-17-2019, 09:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmrbee View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmrbee View Post
Imagine wanting to compare a 13 year old sports car to a modern day muscle car. Says a lot for the Z4M.
As 86Zed said earlier there's nothing out there that I would feel happy about replacing my Z4MR with. I'm super excited that the 718 Spyder now has a proper engine but it lost an easy to deploy power roof as a result. Total California car.

Of the many things I've come to appreciate about the Z4M, especially since getting my 991.1, is that it is the perfect size. All these cars that you are comparing it with are BOATS in comparison. Add that to the fact that its actually extremely comfortable compared to other small sports cars and you have a winner. Haven't even gotten to the characterful engine and chassis yet. The S2000 is right up there in terms of fun but is the most uncomfortable ride I've ever been in and has to be disqualified.

Its a winning package for a fraction of the cost of some newer cars. And for those of us who have other cars around us when we want to switch it up well we get best of all worlds. Easily best bang for buck value I've ever spent on a car. I wanted one for 10+ years as a young college grad and when I finally got one it was all I dreamed it was and more.
When I picked up the ZMR I rented I was surprised how little it was. I looked it up and, yep, virtually the same dimensions as my S2000. It looks bigger in photos.

I need a 2nd car winter and occasionally taking some teenagers to school. The 1LE is the best that I've driven but the visibility is bad and it's huge. Same footprint as my wife's Cayenne. I do a mix of city and suburb driving. If lived in a more rural place it might make sense. Still I tend to like smaller cars.
Need a winter car to transport the kids?
With the money you would spend on the Chevy, buy a used minivan and an E85 Z4MR and I'll bet you may even have some leftover. Plus you'll have a sports car with character.
I have an S2000 already. This Z4MR would be for a few years from now when the kids are off to college and I can add a second not-so-practical car.

I'm not in the market for another roadster. This post was more a hypothetical. I was just trying to satisfy my curiously. I think ZMR is crazy underrated.
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      11-19-2019, 06:03 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMetal View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Zed View Post
The Z4M was certainly compared against a lot of cars upon its initial launch in 2006 - Porsche Boxster/Cayman, BMW E46 M3, etc.

Nowadays comparison generally is against other BMW enthusiast models (1M, E9X M3, Z3M) unless by a previous (or current) Z4M owner. Lots of folks on this forum have sports cars from other makes and happily extol the pros/cons versus their BMW experience.

The Camaro 1LE and Mustang GT350 are outstanding cars. In terms of ownership, the value proposition as a Z4M replacement is still not there for me. As an addition to the current garage - absolutely yes.
Well said - Same here. As much as I like and want a Camaro 1LE or Mustang GT350, I can't get myself to sell the Z4MC. I would add one in a heartbeat if I have garage space for one
Cool! Sounds like this subforum is the right place. I'm a few years away from getting a second two seater. I rented a Z4MR last summer and I was blown away. I expected an M car to be good but this was on another level. Here's my question and I think you guys are going to say yes, we get it. The E46 M3 is great but the Z4M improves on it almost every way. Better chassis, seating position, quicker steering rack, brakes, subframe... the E46 has a back seat I guess. The asking prices of E46 M3s are generally lower but the conditions are worse. Holding condition the same, the Z4MC is about the same price as E46 M3C. The Z4MR is still better than the eE46 coupe and it's a steal. It's crazy that the prices are almost comparable, right?
My question is who gave her/his Z4MR for rent?
I believe on Turo.....
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      11-19-2019, 06:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gds52 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiBimmer View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by XMetal View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 86Zed View Post
The Z4M was certainly compared against a lot of cars upon its initial launch in 2006 - Porsche Boxster/Cayman, BMW E46 M3, etc.

Nowadays comparison generally is against other BMW enthusiast models (1M, E9X M3, Z3M) unless by a previous (or current) Z4M owner. Lots of folks on this forum have sports cars from other makes and happily extol the pros/cons versus their BMW experience.

The Camaro 1LE and Mustang GT350 are outstanding cars. In terms of ownership, the value proposition as a Z4M replacement is still not there for me. As an addition to the current garage - absolutely yes.
Well said - Same here. As much as I like and want a Camaro 1LE or Mustang GT350, I can't get myself to sell the Z4MC. I would add one in a heartbeat if I have garage space for one
Cool! Sounds like this subforum is the right place. I'm a few years away from getting a second two seater. I rented a Z4MR last summer and I was blown away. I expected an M car to be good but this was on another level. Here's my question and I think you guys are going to say yes, we get it. The E46 M3 is great but the Z4M improves on it almost every way. Better chassis, seating position, quicker steering rack, brakes, subframe... the E46 has a back seat I guess. The asking prices of E46 M3s are generally lower but the conditions are worse. Holding condition the same, the Z4MC is about the same price as E46 M3C. The Z4MR is still better than the eE46 coupe and it's a steal. It's crazy that the prices are almost comparable, right?
My question is who gave her/his Z4MR for rent?
I believe on Turo.....
It was Turo. I got it in San Diego. I was like $80 per day approx. Southern California Turo is amazing. Owner probably took home about $300 from my trip. If he can do that 10 or 15 times per year over a few years that pays for a good chunk of the car. I have a good I would not rent out on Turo. I have others where I would just think fine whatever.
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      11-19-2019, 11:26 AM   #22
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Wow..that's crazy. I can see it's good for a regular luxury car...but this is an M with S54 and manual transmission...who knows what damage someone can do to the clutch or the engine....money shift....unseen damage to the wheels and so on.

And just for $80 a day..great deal
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