ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Off-Topic Discussions Board
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      08-17-2019, 12:09 AM   #3543
Grip Addict
Payer of ///M Tax
Grip Addict's Avatar
416
Rep
630
Posts

Drives: ///M3
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: PA

iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
I was joking no one carries a gun with an external lock on it as a concealed carry. If you have the training you know it doesn't take probably under a second to rack the slide and be ready. Problem is, if you were to attack someone how much time you think you would give them to defend themselves? Me personally none. You wont are it coming and will need to defend and respond under that attack. It's all personal choice though and you need to ease into being comfortable that's what you do.
I am at the point, where I do not fear using my firearm in a self defense scenario, but that I fear using my self defense firearm in a self defense scenario.

Like, having the skill and knowledge to protect oneself is a scary thing and lays responsibility of my own life my shoulders.

Hard to explain what I mean with words, but a gun enthusiast/2nd amendment lover/self defense person will understand.
Appreciate 1
Fritzer307.00

      08-17-2019, 12:35 AM   #3544
1MOREMOD
2018 track days - 0 ridge 1:52:24 pacific 1:33:30
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
8682
Rep
21,787
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Are you assuming I'm not one after trying to explain why a gun lock on a handgun in a holster is a joke? I'm an rso at my range and am definitely an enthusiast.
Appreciate 1
Fritzer307.00

      08-17-2019, 11:59 AM   #3545
Golddots
Second Lieutenant
62
Rep
264
Posts

Drives: e90 m3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: nova

iTrader: (1)

All firearms should be ready to roll with one in the chamber, unless stored away.
Appreciate 3
      08-17-2019, 04:20 PM   #3546
adc100
Major
823
Rep
1,018
Posts

Drives: 2018 Forester XT
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Elizabethtown PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grip Addict View Post
I have the skill/training that I feel I would draw/chamber a round faster than any person infringing on my safety and my life.
I understand 100% what you are saying. And in the past I did that. In the interim I got my certificate to teach basic pistol and took two more intermediate courses (SD)and for the past almost 4 years I average 7 private lessons per year (cheap-75 bucks) in a Law Enforcement Center.

The chances of needing to draw very quickly are almost nill..if someone has a bead on you , you would want to run around (harder target) and get your firearm out. This scenario limits you with no round in the chamber.

First the likelihood of a misfeed in a nervous situation is much higher.

But More importantly:

You lose the secrecy. Your most dangerous time is when you are in a restaurant eating. In this case you slowly and secretly draw your firearm and position it so you can get a shot off almost instantly. Racking and needing to let the slide forward and you lose the edge.

If you carry you need to think of conditions where you might need it. What I have mentioned is the biggest threat time. My instructor and I have spent time prepping these things.

The moon will fall out of the sky before a safetylless glock goes off without your finger on the trigger.

How do think you could get in trouble with one in the pipe? Again I am not looking for an argument. :cheers:
Appreciate 1
      08-17-2019, 06:12 PM   #3547
Golddots
Second Lieutenant
62
Rep
264
Posts

Drives: e90 m3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: nova

iTrader: (1)

Short stroking a firearm is a thing. As are malfunctions related to a stressful "israeli draw".
Appreciate 2
      08-17-2019, 09:01 PM   #3548
Grumpy Old Man
Lieutenant Colonel
Grumpy Old Man's Avatar
Canada
6173
Rep
1,893
Posts

Drives: Porsche 993, 2015 MB GLK
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Niagara on the Lake

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
I understand 100% what you are saying. And in the past I did that. In the interim I got my certificate to teach basic pistol and took two more intermediate courses (SD)and for the past almost 4 years I average 7 private lessons per year (cheap-75 bucks) in a Law Enforcement Center.

The chances of needing to draw very quickly are almost nill..if someone has a bead on you , you would want to run around (harder target) and get your firearm out. This scenario limits you with no round in the chamber.

First the likelihood of a misfeed in a nervous situation is much higher.

But More importantly:

You lose the secrecy. Your most dangerous time is when you are in a restaurant eating. In this case you slowly and secretly draw your firearm and position it so you can get a shot off almost instantly. Racking and needing to let the slide forward and you lose the edge.

If you carry you need to think of conditions where you might need it. What I have mentioned is the biggest threat time. My instructor and I have spent time prepping these things.

The moon will fall out of the sky before a safetylless glock goes off without your finger on the trigger.

How do think you could get in trouble with one in the pipe? Again I am not looking for an argument. :cheers:
Why would you ever consider carrying a firearm and not have one chambered. Especially if you're carrying a Glock. You can literally throw the thing on the ground with one in chamber and it will not go off. I carried one for over 20 years it was always loaded with one in the chamber and ready to go, that is what the pistol is designed for. And FTR.....practice, practice practice . When under stress you want only to rely on muscle memory. You don't want to be fucking around with racking etc.....you'll be scared, panicked and your fine motor skills will go for a shit, you'll have tunnel vision and if you shoot most of your rounds will likely miss so screwing around with functioning the action will put you on the losing end of any gun fight. He who shots first wins.

Last edited by Grumpy Old Man; 08-17-2019 at 09:24 PM..
Appreciate 2
chowser51464.00
paliknight1160.50

      08-17-2019, 09:09 PM   #3549
1MOREMOD
2018 track days - 0 ridge 1:52:24 pacific 1:33:30
1MOREMOD's Avatar
United_States
8682
Rep
21,787
Posts

Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

iTrader: (5)

Carry the rounds loose in your pockets and gun empty, make it a challenge
Appreciate 3
FCobra942369.50
Dang3r2470.00

      08-18-2019, 05:45 PM   #3550
N54Yankee
Captain
N54Yankee's Avatar
United_States
1296
Rep
954
Posts

Drives: N54 135|Cobb|M3 control arms
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Why would you ever consider carrying a firearm and not have one chambered. Especially if you're carrying a Glock. You can literally throw the thing on the ground with one in chamber and it will not go off. I carried one for over 20 years it was always loaded with one in the chamber and ready to go, that is what the pistol is designed for. And FTR.....practice, practice practice . When under stress you want only to rely on muscle memory. You don't want to be fucking around with racking etc.....you'll be scared, panicked and your fine motor skills will go for a shit, you'll have tunnel vision and if you shoot most of your rounds will likely miss so screwing around with functioning the action will put you on the losing end of any gun fight. He who shots first wins.
I know it’s a very controversial topic but Glocks and ND’s come up way to often. I know many thousands carry Glocks without incident on the job but it does seem to happen more with the make both civilians and LE. Myself I prefer DA/SA( Sig and Beretta specifically) and that’s what I carry.
__________________
__________________
"The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.Ē Samuel Adams

Last edited by N54Yankee; 08-18-2019 at 06:14 PM..
Appreciate 0
      08-18-2019, 06:20 PM   #3551
Grumpy Old Man
Lieutenant Colonel
Grumpy Old Man's Avatar
Canada
6173
Rep
1,893
Posts

Drives: Porsche 993, 2015 MB GLK
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Niagara on the Lake

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
I know it’s a very controversial topic but Glocks and ND’s come up way to often. I know many thousands carry Glocks without incident on the job but it does seem to happen more with the make both civilians and LE. Myself I prefer DA/SA( Sig and Beretta specifically) and that’s what I carry.
Having seen Glocks launched down range, dropped on the street, in the office, at the proving station, etc. I have a lot of faith in their internal safety. My point is really, carry what you like, don't switch it up and practice because when things are going for a shit so will most of what you think you'll do and you will rely on familiarity and muscle memory. But what do I know, this is just my two cents.

Last edited by Grumpy Old Man; 08-19-2019 at 05:50 AM..
Appreciate 2
N54Yankee1295.50
FCobra942369.50

      08-18-2019, 07:54 PM   #3552
adc100
Major
823
Rep
1,018
Posts

Drives: 2018 Forester XT
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Elizabethtown PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
I know it’s a very controversial topic but Glocks and ND’s come up way to often.
Its ND for a reason. The owner screwed up. The reason it comes more (if it does) is for everyone that carries a DA/SA there are 10 (or more) carrying a striker fire pistol.

99.999999+++% of ND's are bc the dude/dudess pulled the fcking trigger. I don't like the DA/SA (and professionals in SD don't either) bc your finger needs to work with the same pressure and pull each and every time the trigger is actuated. And it goes without saying you won't get a consistent trigger reset to prepare you for the 2nd shot. And yes I realize that the overwhelming numbers of concealed carriers pay zero attention to trigger reset. But again its what you are comfortable with.
Appreciate 1
      08-18-2019, 09:52 PM   #3553
FCobra94
Brigadier General
FCobra94's Avatar
2370
Rep
4,527
Posts

Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MD

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grip Addict View Post
Suggestions on storing a SBR-sized rifle, CZ Scorpion specifically?
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Stack-On-...binet/11071334

Doesn't cost an arm and a leg and you can easily conceal it behind a mirror on a hinge, etc.
__________________
'07 E90 335i - Automagic - Non-sport
MHD E60|Alpina Flash|Stg 2 LPFP|VRSF 7"FMIC-DP-CP|TIAL BOV|cp-e DCI
Bilstein B6|Dinan Camber Plates|E93 M3 FSB-LCA-Guide Rods|Manzo Toe Arms|HPS 5.0
Sonic Tuning ST100 - 18x8.5 ET35 - Conti DWS 245/40/18 - 10/20 F/R spacers
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2019, 01:05 AM   #3554
SchillerM
First Lieutenant
70
Rep
320
Posts

Drives: 11' 550i, '00 M5, '11 E90 335i
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grip Addict View Post
Suggestions on storing a SBR-sized rifle, CZ Scorpion specifically?

I have no kids yet, so no danger for someone stumbling upon it.

I am thinking a above the door frame closet mount somehow, but wondering how you guys withOUT gun safes store your guns about the house?
https://concealcanvas.com/
I like that idea. Magnetic lock, looks like just a picture so if your not home it's unlikely to be spotted unlike a wall safe.
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2019, 09:14 AM   #3555
chowser51
Captain
chowser51's Avatar
United_States
464
Rep
948
Posts

Drives: 2018 BMW F33 430i xDrive
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Having dropped a loaded Glock several times during training, on the street, etc, never went off. Having said that, pocket carry without a pocket holster is asking for trouble.
Appreciate 1
      08-19-2019, 09:27 AM   #3556
N54Yankee
Captain
N54Yankee's Avatar
United_States
1296
Rep
954
Posts

Drives: N54 135|Cobb|M3 control arms
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by chowser51 View Post
Having dropped a loaded Glock several times during training, on the street, etc, never went off. Having said that, pocket carry without a pocket holster is asking for trouble.
Dropping isnít the problem itís the trigger design. Nearly are pistols are made drop safe now.
__________________
__________________
"The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.Ē Samuel Adams
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2019, 09:41 AM   #3557
KenB925
Second Lieutenant
545
Rep
203
Posts

Drives: ZL1, Raptor
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Bay Area, CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by N54Yankee View Post
I know itís a very controversial topic but Glocks and NDís come up way to often. I know many thousands carry Glocks without incident on the job but it does seem to happen more with the make both civilians and LE. Myself I prefer DA/SA( Sig and Beretta specifically) and thatís what I carry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
Having seen Glocks launched down range, dropped on the street, in the office, at the proving station, etc. I have a lot of faith in their internal safety. My point is really, carry what you like, don't switch it up and practice because when things are going for a shit so will most of what you think you'll do and you will rely on familiarity and muscle memory. But what do I know, this is just my two cents.
Most of the Glock NDs involve re-holstering, or simply the operator not keeping his finger off of the bang switch.

I personally have found that I don't enjoy shooting Glocks, and I don't carry something I don't shoot.

I either carry a Kahr PM9 in a pocket holster, or a 1911 in crossbreed, very rarely a 1911 in an outside the belt holster.
Appreciate 0
      08-19-2019, 09:48 AM   #3558
N54Yankee
Captain
N54Yankee's Avatar
United_States
1296
Rep
954
Posts

Drives: N54 135|Cobb|M3 control arms
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenB925 View Post
Most of the Glock NDs involve re-holstering, or simply the operator not keeping his finger off of the bang switch.

I personally have found that I don't enjoy shooting Glocks, and I don't carry something I don't shoot.

I either carry a Kahr PM9 in a pocket holster, or a 1911 in crossbreed, very rarely a 1911 in an outside the belt holster.
Donít carry my Colt 5Ē outside often but when I do I use a Sparks Axiom. Itís really nice, comfortable and tucks in very well.
__________________
__________________
"The Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms.Ē Samuel Adams
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2019, 02:48 AM   #3559
paliknight
fuck this field
paliknight's Avatar
United_States
1161
Rep
1,977
Posts

Drives: 18 F80 CS/18 F80 ZCP/19 M2C
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: everywhere

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarPundit View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grip Addict View Post
I conceal carry unchambered so the issue doesn't matter.

I understand every gun loving person may have a chambered round and thinks it will save them a few seconds.

I just subscribe to the notion that the simple fact of having a gun on my hip will save me as opposed to having my gun X miles away or hours at home when I am at the mall, movies, or Walmart as recent events have shown.

Like I get that having a chambered round wills save me X seconds, but I prefer the 100% safety buffer of not having a chambered round.

I have the skill/training that I feel I would draw/chamber a round faster than any person infringing on my safety and my life.
Different scenarios. I'm talking about the guns I keep in my house. I don't want to give away my position by having to chamber a round if a guy has forced entry into my house. Carrying is different. I have nothing against carrying a 1911 cocked and locked. But I also don't have any quarrel with your practice of carrying unchambered. To some extent it depends on the gun. I would carry a Glock unchambered because it basically has no safety.
Glocks actually have 3 safeties. Drop, trigger and firing pin safety.

If you carry unchambered, then you may either need more training, a new holster with better retention, or both.
__________________
BMW family... for now.
Appreciate 1
      08-20-2019, 06:18 AM   #3560
Grumpy Old Man
Lieutenant Colonel
Grumpy Old Man's Avatar
Canada
6173
Rep
1,893
Posts

Drives: Porsche 993, 2015 MB GLK
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Niagara on the Lake

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by paliknight View Post
Glocks actually have 3 safeties. Drop, trigger and firing pin safety.

If you carry unchambered, then you may either need more training, a new holster with better retention, or both.
In my experience and from my understanding there is only one way for a Clock to fire a round and that requires the trigger being pulled.
Appreciate 1
paliknight1160.50

      08-20-2019, 10:33 AM   #3561
CigarPundit
On the road to serfdom
CigarPundit's Avatar
United_States
946
Rep
611
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 DCT, 2019 Raptor
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 F80 M3 DCT  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by paliknight View Post
Glocks actually have 3 safeties. Drop, trigger and firing pin safety.

If you carry unchambered, then you may either need more training, a new holster with better retention, or both.
I own several Glocks and I understand how the safeties work. I understand that a Glock will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. I was simply making the point that the Glock trigger safety is unconventional in that there is no trigger lock out that prevents the gun from firing even if the trigger IS pulled. For this reason, I look at Glocks differently. Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon. I love Glocks, and I think they are safe when carried holstered and used by someone with some training.

For those making pronouncements on what is the only ďrightĒ way to carry. Yeah whatever.
__________________
"God bless our troops...Especially our snipers.Ē
Appreciate 1
      08-20-2019, 11:00 AM   #3562
adc100
Major
823
Rep
1,018
Posts

Drives: 2018 Forester XT
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Elizabethtown PA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarPundit;25162205 Glock trigger safety is unconventional in that there is no trigger lock out that prevents the gun from firing even if the trigger IS pulled. [/quote
Exactly what are you talking about here a "safety". I have never heard of the term "trigger lockout"

Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon.
I will say again...anytime you touch a firearm, holster, unholster it and use it...your mind must be 100% on THE Firearm .If you are careless enough to get something against the trigger (besides your finger), you (not you personally) are not competent enough to use any firearm without supervision-period.
Appreciate 0
      08-20-2019, 11:18 AM   #3563
CigarPundit
On the road to serfdom
CigarPundit's Avatar
United_States
946
Rep
611
Posts

Drives: 2018 F80 M3 DCT, 2019 Raptor
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 F80 M3 DCT  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Exactly what are you talking about here a "safety". I have never heard of the term "trigger lockout"

Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon.
I will say again...anytime you touch a firearm, holster, unholster it and use it...your mind must be 100% on THE Firearm .If you are careless enough to get something against the trigger (besides your finger), you (not you personally) are not competent enough to use any firearm without supervision-period.[/QUOTE]

Dude, Iíve been using guns for nearly 50 years. Spare me the lecture. Iím an instructor and an RSO. Maybe you are unfamiliar with any kind of safety other than the Glock trigger safety. Maybe you are a die hard Glock fan boy. I donít know. But the fact is that most safeties prevent the gun from firing even if the trigger is pulled. For example, the 1911.
__________________
"God bless our troops...Especially our snipers.Ē
Appreciate 1
FCobra942369.50

      08-20-2019, 11:19 AM   #3564
Joekerr
Is Joe King
Joekerr's Avatar
4449
Rep
1,617
Posts

Drives: 2012 300C SRT8
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, ON

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CigarPundit View Post
I own several Glocks and I understand how the safeties work. I understand that a Glock will not fire unless the trigger is pulled. I was simply making the point that the Glock trigger safety is unconventional in that there is no trigger lock out that prevents the gun from firing even if the trigger IS pulled. For this reason, I look at Glocks differently. Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon. I love Glocks, and I think they are safe when carried holstered and used by someone with some training.

For those making pronouncements on what is the only “right” way to carry. Yeah whatever.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adc100 View Post
Exactly what are you talking about here a "safety". I have never heard of the term "trigger lockout"

Terrible weapon for pocket carry or purse carry because something could inadvertently get inside the trigger guard and discharge the weapon.

I will say again...anytime you touch a firearm, holster, unholster it and use it...your mind must be 100% on THE Firearm .If you are careless enough to get something against the trigger (besides your finger), you (not you personally) are not competent enough to use any firearm without supervision-period.
Yeah....but....you are not a true American if you don't give the pistol a good spin before holstering or immediately after unholstering. I'd like to see how many Glocks go off with a good spin.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
he's Canadian. By international law we all must worship him and all other products of the country.
Appreciate 1
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:37 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST