Uncertain which Z4 to buy

[grannyknot]

Hi Guys,
I'm torn between the Z4 ///M coupe and the 3.0 standard Z4 coupe, the Mcoupe has lots of extra power for sure but I've read that the 3.0 can be tweaked to respectable hp too.
I'm in my 60's now and my need for speed isn't as keen as it use to be so the 3.0 sounds like it would fit the bill, but the sound of an S54 is unmatched IMO.
I've made up a list of pros and cons for each car but both of them seem to be wonderful in its own way.
Hoping you guys can help me decide.
Thanks,
Chris

[Steeler]

The S54 comes with some engine maintenance challenges.
The M54 is more or less bullet proof if maintained properly.

Saw an S54 Z listed today for close to 50k canadian in Toronto.
I would guess you could get a well maintained M54 for less than half that.

Coupes are harder to find than roadsters.

Good luck with your search.

[bwright657]

A 3.0 or 3.0si coupe will be cheaper to buy and maintain than the full M. Neither is a bad choice, just depends on what you want from the car. For me the extra power of the S54 was a must have. Both versions need an aftermarket muffler to really get the best sound.

The biggest difference will be in the steering. The Ms have hydraulic racks while the regular cars have electric. I would try and test drive both to see if you're ok with the EPS on the regular car. It is possible to retrofit hydraulic steering by pulling together different parts from the M car and the E46.

If you go for a 3.0, definitely look for one with the sport seats. They are the same basic structure as the M just with different leather.

[Piper1]

Just a few correction points M54 motor was prefacelift coupe are post facelift so coupe with either have n52 non M or s54 M. I’ve seen the hydraulic conversion done to M54 but not seen on n52 on a Z4 so someone please chime in on this. My 128 with n52 has hydraulic so I’d think it’d be possible but I haven’t seen in on the Z4 n52.

Even with the standard 3.0 you can do the intake swap and remap to the si so there’s plenty to tweak but why not just go for the si to begin with? I had almost given up the search when my 07 coupe appeared out of thin air this year. So best advise I can give is once you make your decision on what trim if you don’t see it out there now be patient and keep on the hunt rather than settle for what jumps out.

As others have said coupes of any trim are rare so you do pay the price especially right now.

[3798j]

Eleven years ago I was in your position (in my 60's shopping for either an 3.0SI coupe or the M coupe). The market was slim and I ended up with the SI without ever driving an M. No regrets and I still love everything about what the model is...it's a nicely powered GT car with a strong sportscar soul. Other than going with ceramic pads (could not stand the dust), adding wheel spacers, painting the roof black, de-badging, adding mud guards and ditching the run-flats, I've not altered anything from stock. For me, the engine's sound and the exhaust note are perfect examples of the BMW inline 6 lineage. Are there faster, better handling cars? Of course there are, but as a package of wonderful performance, great driver "feedback", and understated good looks, the Z4 coupe is quite a package. Can you tell I'm a fan?

[Squidd99]

I'm not familiar with the coupe engines, but I spent a lot of time last year looking for a roadster, and drove a lot of used ones. I finally bought a 3.0 Csi, which is a noticeable bit peppier than the 3.0i. (I think it has about 45 more HP.) I'm in my 70's, and find this car quite fast enough, and don't think that the extra cost of an M would be worth it. The 3.0csi is quite respectable.
So if the coupes you are looking at are available in the 3.0 Csi, I think you should at least drive one or two to see how they run. I found an '08 3.0Csi roadster with only 39,000 miles on it, after looking around for about 9 months, and am quite happy with the car and the power of the engine.

[belcom]

I own both an M Coupe and 3.0si convertible w/hardtop. Two different beasts for sure. You will probably not understand the difference until you drive and experience them both. When you do drive the M either convertible or coupe you will recognize why it is an M. 3.0si is also a great car regardless and if I had to describe it, its kind of much easier and compliant to drive while M Coupe is more powerful, tight, heavy quick steering and suspension. True sports car feel.

I'd definitely look into test driving the cars if opportunity arises. If you like to wrench on your own, maintenance should not be a problem with any engine. Its all very doable.

One thing for sure though, whichever one you find/buy you're going to have to change/refresh suspension as the first maintenance item unless its been done within the last few years. If the mileage didn't kill it, time did. That way you'll be able to enjoy the car way more. I am talking about shocks, FCABs, RTABs, perhaps control arms and whichever other bushings have dried out or worn out and no longer up to spec. This alone makes a big difference in driving experience of these cars.

[JesterZ]

Great feedback from those who’ve experienced both. I’ve only driven the M and have owned my Z4M Coupe for the past 5 years. Love the car - it’s a match made in heaven. I work on it myself and that is easily half the fun, though I understand and respect those who don’t / can’t wrench on their cars. One thought - the stick can get tedious in traffic and daily driving and for me the M is purely a sunny day / road trip / fun car. If you’re looking for an automatic your only choice is the non M.

[Huz-Z]

Re the 3.0si, it’s 255 horsepower and very gutsy. I imported mine from Florida into Canada so it’s calibrated in miles per hour on the speedometer not kilometres per hour. The highway speed limit here is 100 kph / 60 mph and one day I nailed the pedal to pass a guy. I settled in at 100 on the clock and happily noted the car had plenty - and I do mean plenty - of pull at that speed. That’s when I realized I was cruising along at 100 mph not kph, a solid 40 mph / 60 kph over the limit.

So yeah, a stock SI is no slouch either. And as I found out too that day, the brakes work real good. Make sure you warn denture wearers.

But bear in mind that the SI can’t be modded much for extra power. It will be cheaper on gas though and a bit less costly to maintain.

The question of SI vs M has no wrong answer - you decide based on your need.

[grannyknot]

Wow, what a response, thank you for your help everyone, I'm going to look at a 2008 M coupe tomorrow morning, it's abit out of my price range but I could swing it.
Thanks,
Chris

[vt100]

Originally Posted by JesterZ

One thought - the stick can get tedious in traffic and daily driving and for me the M is purely a sunny day / road trip / fun car. If you’re looking for an automatic your only choice is the non M.

It's also worth to mention that manual on Z4 (Z4M at least) is probably the worst manual tranny I've ever driven. But everything else makes up for this small issue.

[3798j]

The 3.0si's manual is enjoyable...particularly if the clutch delay valve is eliminated (most probably have been removed)...reasonably short, bolt action throws, good syncros, and a light clutch.

[Huz-Z]

Originally Posted by vt100

It's also worth to mention that manual on Z4 (Z4M at least) is probably the worst manual tranny I've ever driven. But everything else makes up for this small issue.

Except in 89 Golf. I think Schwarzenegger would be challenged to shift from first to second.

[vt100]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

Except in 89 Golf. I think Schwarzenegger would be challenged to shift from first to second.

Haha... I was lucky to never try that I guess

I also heard that Subaru WRX and Sti have rather bad (cable) shifters but haven't tried those either.

[wdb]

I owned a 3.0si and an M coupe at the same time. (Sold the 3.0si eventually.) The si had M Sport suspension, wheels and seats, so it was quite close to the M in those respects. Even so, I agree with the comments about them being different; enough so that I almost kept both!

The 3.0si is a delightful little coupe. Easy to drive around town, ridiculously good fuel economy, happy to trundle. Lay on the loud pedal and it is equally happy to scoot! I love the 3-stage intake and how you can feel it change as the revs go up. The N52 in any guise is a rev-happy motor, not to mention a very lightweight one; the nose of a 3.0si is nearly 200 lbs. lighter than the nose of the M car. That makes a huge difference in front end responsiveness and turn-in. Yes, people grumble about the electric steering. I do like the M's hydraulic steering better, but I drive these cars more with my hips than with my hands so it never bugged me all that much. The front end is a bit darty but you get used to it. If the non-M has any real fault IMO it is the lack of a limited slip diff. If I had kept mine it would have gotten one sooner or later.

The M car has a very different personality. The moment you turn the key you know it is a more serious piece of kit. It is capable of trundling around, but you'll be chewing on your lip the whole time. The. Car. Just. Wants. To. Go. It drives heavier than the si, mostly because of the hydraulic steering feel and the extra nose weight. The gas pedal also provides thrills but of a deeper, stronger, more urgent type. The 8,000 RPM redline is constantly beckoning. I drive the M around in lower gears than I did the si, just so I can listen to that glorious noise. My two gripes about the M are: 1) the interior can be dark, with the headliner and pillar trim being all black -- the si had lighter colors and a brighter feel inside; 2) even though everyone swears the gearboxes are identical in both cars, the M simply does not shift as nicely, smoothly, and lightly as the si -- I put a short shift kit in the M to improve it but it still is not as nice as the si (and my 328i for that matter).

In terms of rarity the si with manual gearbox is the hen's tooth, with less than 1,000 produced for North America. Collectibility is still an unknown but both cars are increasing in value and I think both will become collector cars soon if they are not already. I drive my cars so I don't worry a lot about value; I mention this more for what it might cost to get one or the other.

S54 will have higher maintenance costs but those can be a bit overblown on the forums. The N52 is known to have oil leaks, water pump and other cooling system issues, plus the 3-stage intake has bits that need attention over time as well. I would guess that total cost of ownership might be close to equal. DIYers would probably find the N52 easier to manage on their own.

[Colemme]

I agree that most of what was said is true, but not everything. I am a one (1) owner of a 2006 M Roadster/ S54 engine. I guess I've been blessed, I have had zero engine issues or maintenance challenges. Other than replacing the coil packs a couple years ago from 14 years of not driving the car during the winter months, the entire car has been flawless! I recently purchased a hardtop so that I can drive it longer into the fall and earlier in the spring. I need to refresh the suspension, that's it.

It appears you've already made up your mind with a 3.0 or 3.0si, so do that and never look back.

[grannyknot]

Originally Posted by Colemme

It appears you've already made up your mind with a 3.0 or 3.0si, so do that and never look back.

mmmmmmmm, not yet. I should have some good news next week.

[pungo]

I bought (stole) a new 2007 si coupe, manual, sport option, sport seats with nearly all options. The dealer had it for nearly a year showing only 20 miles, the 2008s were showing up, BMW was giving them trunk money so I low balled them and they accepted my offer. They said most people in my area don't want a manual and that's why they were sitting on it for a year. I drove it for several years, great daily driver, handles well with plenty of power. The electric steering and no LSD was the only downside. The steering is not bad, engaging sport mode gives the steering a little heavier feel, but it just doesn't feel as connected to the road as traditional hydraulic steering.

I came across an extremely low mileage 2007 ///M coupe garage queen with all options except extended leather and bought it without hesitation. Even though they both basically have the same body/interior with exception of hood/bumpers, the drivetrain/suspension/steering are and feel noticeably different. After driving both for a while, I let the si go for close to what I paid for it new. Even though it was a great car, the ///M just fit my needs and tastes better than the si. I have several other vehicles so keeping both Z4 coupes wasn't going to work for me.

I really miss the si, but when I get behind the wheel of the ///M coupe, select track mode, grab the fat steering wheel, feel the hydraulic steering so connected to the road, the responsive high reving S54 engine, the LSD working to push both wheels around a turn, the smiles are endless

Bottom line, you really need to drive both to truly make the best decision for the best match for your desires. The problem is going to be able to find a si coupe with a manual, unless you want the automatic. You could always drive a si roadster since it should drive nearly identical to the coupe to see how you like a si. IMHO, if it matters to you, in the future, the M coupe is going to retain it's value the most out of all E85/E86 variants.

[Gamb1t]

Z4M Coupe has future collectability. But if you intend to rack up miles then perhaps a non-M Z4 makes better sense in terms of cost of ownership. The N52 Z4s are pretty nice. With 260hp on tap from a bullet-proof engine, it would be my go-to choice. Oh wait... I did!

[Squidd99]

As far as this thought goes: "it's abit out of my price range but I could swing it. . . " that's exactly where I was when I found a very low mileage '08 Csi roadster (out of state . . . add in shipping costs). It was more than I wanted to spend, and I had been looking at several older cars, but this was too good to pass up, and my active theory is that I'll get that extra money back when I sell it. And it brings me great joy every time I start it up.
Please don't contradict me on that point about the extra money . . . it's the only justification I have for buying the car.

[wdb]

^^^^ That's a gem. How much do you want for it?

[baege]

so I think a lot of us have done through this analysis and of course it depends on what you like and want as to which is better for you.

Here is why the SI was the one I chose: (had a manual 2007 SI coupe for almost 5 years)

I prefer the smooth buttery nature of the n52 over the raspy s54
I preferred the way the manual worked in the SI (if it is exactly the same transmission, it definitely behaves differently in the SI applicaiton, a bit smoother)
the ride was maybe slightly more liveable
for me the car was my only car and while I didn't drive to work, I used it for ordinary life stuff all the time and the SI worked better for that

hope that helps, might be moot if you already bought the m coupe!