ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..)
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-13-2024, 04:32 AM   #67
E86Z4MC
Private
55
Rep
78
Posts

Drives: Z4M Coupe
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: New England

iTrader: (0)

Interesting perspective. Doesn't say Lewis should have been penalized, just that Max felt frustrated by it and struggled feeling the pressure of being hunted. Also states that Max was lucky to not be penalized for his driving later in the year.
Appreciate 0
      09-18-2024, 11:05 AM   #68
HeelToeShift
Major
3119
Rep
1,345
Posts

Drives: Mine
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfox View Post
Your overall logic doesn't make sense. Following your logic, since Lando beat Ricciardo, and Ricciardo beat Max, therefore Lando beats Max.


Drivers skill varies from circuit to circuit, from year to year, it goes up and down across their career. It's not stagnant, ever. Sometimes they wake up on the wrong side of the bed and suck that day. These are just people, like you and I. At the end of the day, Lando is #2 in the WDC right now. Not Piastri. Not Hamilton.

This is true. What we do know is that when Max has a good car he wins something like 8+ races out of 10 when the car isn’t even dominant. When Ham had the most dominant F1 car with a material 80-100 hp advantage he was only able to win maybe 6 races out of 10 - partly why Max in first 200 GPs won nearly 8% more races in that same milestone. Sch won materially more than even Max and he is still the best of all time without question. Nor looks to only be able to win 1-2 races of 10 when he has a tremendously fast car.

As I’ve said, Ham’s stats are pretty bad when you take out the MB years and the years he has the fastest McLaren in which he only “won” (if you can call it that) due to a known cheating scandal.
Appreciate 3
      09-18-2024, 11:18 AM   #69
AmuroRay
Major General
AmuroRay's Avatar
2891
Rep
5,045
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
This is true. What we do know is that when Max has a good car he wins something like 8+ races out of 10 when the car isn’t even dominant. When Ham had the most dominant F1 car with a material 80-100 hp advantage he was only able to win maybe 6 races out of 10 - partly why Max in first 200 GPs won nearly 8% more races in that same milestone. Sch won materially more than even Max and he is still the best of all time without question. Nor looks to only be able to win 1-2 races of 10 when he has a tremendously fast car.

As I’ve said, Ham’s stats are pretty bad when you take out the MB years and the years he has the fastest McLaren in which he only “won” (if you can call it that) due to a known cheating scandal.
HAM won a WDC while Kimi and Alonso were in their prime. NEXT.
__________________
Mods: Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Appreciate 1
CMW33790.00
      09-18-2024, 01:52 PM   #70
///M Power-Belgium
General
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
Belgium
68825
Rep
26,226
Posts

Drives: ///M3-E92-DCT Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
HAM won a WDC while Kimi and Alonso were in their prime. NEXT.
LEW drove the fastest car in the F1 history but still he was beaten by MAX.
__________________
"MAX VERSTAPPEN" IS THE 2021+2022+2023 F1 WORLD CHAMPION - #UnLeashTheLion

BPM DEV-Tune & DCT Software-Tune & Servotronic & coding ///Alpine HID Angeleyes ///Oem.exhaust mod.
Appreciate 2
M5Rick67202.00
      09-18-2024, 08:40 PM   #71
HeelToeShift
Major
3119
Rep
1,345
Posts

Drives: Mine
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
HAM won a WDC while Kimi and Alonso were in their prime. NEXT.
Alo career went downhill after his 2 WDCs especially when they were giving ham upgrades that Alo didn’t get. Kimi also didn’t care after he won. Again, ham only won due to blatant cheating that was admitted to being covered up. After that he went on to win only a couple races while Vet made a complete mockery of him. Then it wasn’t until he got 80-100 more hp he could win races and still lost to a very bad Ros. He also lost to Max while having a much faster car. When skill is actually needed for Ham, there isn’t any. Again, he went 3 years without a win while having a car much more competitive than Max had (yet still won many races) through the 2021 season and more competitive than most drivers ever will get.

Next…
Appreciate 2
M5Rick67202.00
      09-18-2024, 09:50 PM   #72
AmuroRay
Major General
AmuroRay's Avatar
2891
Rep
5,045
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
LEW drove the fastest car in the F1 history but still he was beaten by MAX.
Ok - but it's peers were quick too. By 2017 the competition caught up, Ferrari and Vettel had caught up.

Max was winning by 1 minutes over his peers in 2023, and now in 2024 he went from podiums to mid pack, to being beat by Perez.

If Hamilton is bad, Max is terrible and hasn't beaten anyone worth a damn.
__________________
Mods: Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Appreciate 0
      09-18-2024, 09:51 PM   #73
AmuroRay
Major General
AmuroRay's Avatar
2891
Rep
5,045
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Alo career went downhill after his 2 WDCs especially when they were giving ham upgrades that Alo didn’t get. Kimi also didn’t care after he won. Again, ham only won due to blatant cheating that was admitted to being covered up. After that he went on to win only a couple races while Vet made a complete mockery of him. Then it wasn’t until he got 80-100 more hp he could win races and still lost to a very bad Ros. He also lost to Max while having a much faster car. When skill is actually needed for Ham, there isn’t any. Again, he went 3 years without a win while having a car much more competitive than Max had (yet still won many races) through the 2021 season and more competitive than most drivers ever will get.

Next…
Ham was a WDC runner up in his rookie season, winner in season 2. Next.
__________________
Mods: Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Appreciate 0
      09-19-2024, 03:16 AM   #74
fs1977
Private
165
Rep
97
Posts

Drives: G21 M340i
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 G21 M340i  [10.00]
In what race was Max beaten by Perez this year?
Appreciate 3
      09-19-2024, 03:47 AM   #75
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
67202
Rep
21,708
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: GB

iTrader: (0)

MAX reportedly wants ..to leave.. zzzzzzzz
Next.
Appreciate 1
      09-19-2024, 05:49 AM   #76
Fillip
Private First Class
Fillip's Avatar
244
Rep
108
Posts

Drives: 2020 M3 (F80)
Join Date: Sep 2023
Location: Michigan

iTrader: (0)

Aston Martin would be delighted to read such articles but I don't see him leaving the Red Bull any time soon.
Appreciate 1
M5Rick67202.00
      09-19-2024, 02:01 PM   #77
HeelToeShift
Major
3119
Rep
1,345
Posts

Drives: Mine
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
Ham was a WDC runner up in his rookie season, winner in season 2. Next.
Actually he was 3rd since Alo beat him on count back. And again, with the best car and preferential treatement he couldn’t didn’t win. Max would have won both seasons on merit on the same caliber car. Next.
Appreciate 2
M5Rick67202.00
      09-19-2024, 02:12 PM   #78
AmuroRay
Major General
AmuroRay's Avatar
2891
Rep
5,045
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Actually he was 3rd since Alo beat him on count back. And again, with the best car and preferential treatement he couldn’t didn’t win. Max would have won both seasons on merit on the same caliber car. Next.
That incorrect, he was second - he beat Alonso on the countback. It's even officially listed on F1.Com, and it was also the statistically one of, if not the best rookie season.

https://www.formula1.com/en/results/2007/drivers

Max lost his first 2 season against a guy who never won a WDC.
__________________
Mods: Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Appreciate 0
      09-20-2024, 02:38 AM   #79
fs1977
Private
165
Rep
97
Posts

Drives: G21 M340i
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 G21 M340i  [10.00]
It's useless to compare because there are to much variables. For instance, Hamilton was in a race winning car from the moment he joined F1, Verstappen was in a midfield car for his first 1,5 season in F1. The other way around, it's just as useless to compare with all the records Verstappen broke in 2023, simply because he had the fastest car and was superior to Perez in the same car.

In my opinion, in the current F1 line-up there are 3 drivers who stand out: Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso. Some of the others are really good drivers, but just missing that one special thing. For now anyway, because I agree with the opinion that driver capabilities evolve during a career.

And on the subject, I don't think Verstappen leaves RB for another team any time soon.
Appreciate 3
      09-20-2024, 07:28 AM   #80
Killed by Death
Brigadier General
Killed by Death's Avatar
15199
Rep
4,157
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fs1977 View Post
It's useless to compare because there are to much variables. For instance, Hamilton was in a race winning car from the moment he joined F1, Verstappen was in a midfield car for his first 1,5 season in F1. The other way around, it's just as useless to compare with all the records Verstappen broke in 2023, simply because he had the fastest car and was superior to Perez in the same car.

In my opinion, in the current F1 line-up there are 3 drivers who stand out: Verstappen, Hamilton and Alonso. Some of the others are really good drivers, but just missing that one special thing. For now anyway, because I agree with the opinion that driver capabilities evolve during a career.

And on the subject, I don't think Verstappen leaves RB for another team any time soon.
I think you can include LEC in that list because of the Ferrari factor. They screwed a lot of great drivers including Kimi, Alonzo and SeaBass.
Appreciate 1
      09-20-2024, 07:59 AM   #81
fs1977
Private
165
Rep
97
Posts

Drives: G21 M340i
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 G21 M340i  [10.00]
I think Leclerc isn't there yet. Too many mistakes and not as clinical and ruthless as the ones I mentioned. Same goes for Piastri and Norris (maybe Piastri even more). The potential is there, but they haven't reached it yet.
Appreciate 0
      09-20-2024, 08:09 AM   #82
Killed by Death
Brigadier General
Killed by Death's Avatar
15199
Rep
4,157
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fs1977 View Post
I think Leclerc isn't there yet. Too many mistakes and not as clinical and ruthless as the ones I mentioned. Same goes for Piastri and Norris (maybe Piastri even more). The potential is there, but they haven't reached it yet.
I still think LEC's problem is Ferrari. Most of his mistakes come from the car's persistent snap oversteer. And losses mostly come from #FerrariThings. He might not be overly ruthless but makes up for that with passion. You can hear it in his voice when things go wrong.
Appreciate 1
      09-20-2024, 08:25 AM   #83
fs1977
Private
165
Rep
97
Posts

Drives: G21 M340i
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: Netherlands

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 G21 M340i  [10.00]
Mayby his passion is just the thing holding him back from reaching his full potential
Appreciate 0
      09-20-2024, 09:01 AM   #84
HeelToeShift
Major
3119
Rep
1,345
Posts

Drives: Mine
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Here

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmuroRay View Post
That incorrect, he was second - he beat Alonso on the countback. It's even officially listed on F1.Com, and it was also the statistically one of, if not the best rookie season.

https://www.formula1.com/en/results/2007/drivers

Max lost his first 2 season against a guy who never won a WDC.
Villenueve actually had a better rookie season because he also went into the best car. If you have the best car, it makes things easy...
Ham lost to Rus when Rus was a MB rookie. Pretty laughable to lost to a guy who is not even close to being a top tier driver.
Max as a RB rookie matched Ric for podiums and wins. Beyond that, he hasnt needed the faster car to win a WDC - 2021, and even 2022 his car wasnt as fast as the Ferrari for most of the season, and if he wins in 2024 he will have 3 WDCs in slower cars. Ham has never been able to win unless his car was the very fastest - and we see his lack of performance in all other cars that arent.
Appreciate 1
      09-20-2024, 12:34 PM   #85
Killed by Death
Brigadier General
Killed by Death's Avatar
15199
Rep
4,157
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fs1977 View Post
Mayby his passion is just the thing holding him back from reaching his full potential
IDK
Appreciate 1
      09-20-2024, 01:41 PM   #86
AmuroRay
Major General
AmuroRay's Avatar
2891
Rep
5,045
Posts

Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Florida

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeelToeShift View Post
Villenueve actually had a better rookie season because he also went into the best car. If you have the best car, it makes things easy...
Ham lost to Rus when Rus was a MB rookie. Pretty laughable to lost to a guy who is not even close to being a top tier driver.
Max as a RB rookie matched Ric for podiums and wins. Beyond that, he hasnt needed the faster car to win a WDC - 2021, and even 2022 his car wasnt as fast as the Ferrari for most of the season, and if he wins in 2024 he will have 3 WDCs in slower cars. Ham has never been able to win unless his car was the very fastest - and we see his lack of performance in all other cars that arent.
So why isn't he winning now?
__________________
Mods: Yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by umizoomi View Post
As long 3-pedals are an option, I will exercise my right to suffer the handicap and indignity of slower shifts and reaction times.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:32 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST