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      12-08-2020, 05:28 PM   #4951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smgs1992 View Post
Yup local shop has a couple pallets of each. Prices are pretty high though around $28/box of 50. $14/box of 20
i would do shameful things for that pricing.

local gun store is at a dollar a round (not in this lifetime) for 9 and 5.56
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      12-08-2020, 06:01 PM   #4952
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Well I can sell you couple thousand of each for 90 cents then
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      12-08-2020, 06:45 PM   #4953
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Entrepreneur or opportunist?
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      12-08-2020, 07:32 PM   #4954
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Originally Posted by packet View Post
i would do shameful things for that pricing.

local gun store is at a dollar a round (not in this lifetime) for 9 and 5.56
I’m hoping to be able to find it cheaper. As soon as prices and stock starts to stabilize and return to normal i’m buying atleast 1000rds each for every caliber i have. Probably more honestly
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      12-09-2020, 08:56 PM   #4955
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Decided to buy myself a Christmas present of a 300 BLK AR Pistol. Kind of started out just getting the lower and then before I knew it the entire gun was ordered. I guess that kind of stuff just happens. No wonder there are millions of these toys out there. Gonna be fun putting it together over the holidays. It’ll be my first build. Merry Christmas to me ! 😊
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      12-09-2020, 09:05 PM   #4956
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Originally Posted by Smgs1992 View Post
I’m hoping to be able to find it cheaper. As soon as prices and stock starts to stabilize and return to normal i’m buying atleast 1000rds each for every caliber i have. Probably more honestly
I read a memo from an ammo company/distr that said it could be years before things normalize with ammo, especially with a Biden win.
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      12-09-2020, 09:12 PM   #4957
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AR-type weapons were allegedly "going to be outlawed" towards the end of Clinton's second term. Based on the photos on this thread, that doesn't seem to have happened. Cast a healthy splash of skepticism on vague predictions at some point in the future.
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      12-10-2020, 12:21 AM   #4958
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Originally Posted by IllSic_Design View Post
I read a memo from an ammo company/distr that said it could be years before things normalize with ammo, especially with a Biden win.
I don't believe it. The panic is new people buying ammo and guns. Now that the election is over the ammo makers can continue to churn those presses and make more ammo and people who stored some ammo don't need to buy any more.

Just like toilet paper. 3 months later and have your pick and buy as much as you want. Do I think we will return to the golden era of quality 223 ammo for 30 cents per? No. There is a built in permanent increase from this crap. But I do see a dip in prices from this my summer.

Hope so. Got a hungry MP5 and M16 and they run through ammo fast.
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      12-10-2020, 05:06 AM   #4959
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Why? I say why not.. Bring it to the modern age.

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      12-10-2020, 07:01 AM   #4960
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      12-10-2020, 09:22 AM   #4961
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IllSic_Design View Post
I read a memo from an ammo company/distr that said it could be years before things normalize with ammo, especially with a Biden win.
I was living in New England at the time.... when Obama took office, EVERYTHING dried up.... and I mean Everything....
First time in my life that .22 was not just hard to find, but impossible!

That lasted about 2.5 years up there.... was at least 5-6 before all calibers were plentiful again. (until fear of another Clinton at the helm started driving prices up again)
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      12-10-2020, 09:39 AM   #4962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dtox9 View Post
I was living in New England at the time.... when Obama took office, EVERYTHING dried up.... and I mean Everything....
First time in my life that .22 was not just hard to find, but impossible!

That lasted about 2.5 years up there.... was at least 5-6 before all calibers were plentiful again. (until fear of another Clinton at the helm started driving prices up again)


Exactly. I work in the industry and this is even worse than 2013-2015 was, which is the highwater mark for the industry. We are already more than a year backlogged and it is getting worse - not better. Vista Outdoor (owns Federal and now Remington Ammo) just announce the other day to their investors that they are 1 BILLION backordered on ammo alone.

Anyone who thinks this is going to be gone in a few months is smoking crack. This is here for 2021 at LEAST and I'd guess the next 2 years at least before things start settling down. Once the panic buying and gouging starts - it takes a long time for it to die down.

I have been in the industry for many decades and seen these starting clear back to the Winchester Black Talon days. And once Biden starts talking gun control - it will go into orbit even further.

This is not just new gun buyers. We saw a little spike earlier in the year, but JAN-FEB were mostly "normal". Once Minn went up in flames - our orders quadrupled that week. They have stayed strong ever since and started building again after the elections. Those were all SD calibers (9mm, 223, 556, 300BO, etc), but now it has spread to everything. Any semi-normal popular caliber is deeply backordered and will be for a long time to come.

We are getting to the point that primers are going to be the lynchpin. They are very expensive to make and everyone that makes them also makes ammo - so why sell your primers if you need them for you ammo? Same thing happened in 2013-2015 except it was powder as well.

It's going to be a long haul. But everyone is shipping records amounts of product - so find a decent price and put in a back order and they will get to you eventually. Handloaders have it a little easier, but not much.

Going to be a long few years - and that is not counting the gun control measures that you KNOW will be coming when Biden gets in - especially if he gets control of the Senate to boot.

Hang on tight.
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      12-10-2020, 10:13 AM   #4963
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Because at this point it's easier than buying 6.5
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      12-10-2020, 11:24 AM   #4964
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unluky View Post
Exactly. I work in the industry and this is even worse than 2013-2015 was, which is the highwater mark for the industry. We are already more than a year backlogged and it is getting worse - not better. Vista Outdoor (owns Federal and now Remington Ammo) just announce the other day to their investors that they are 1 BILLION backordered on ammo alone.

Anyone who thinks this is going to be gone in a few months is smoking crack. This is here for 2021 at LEAST and I'd guess the next 2 years at least before things start settling down. Once the panic buying and gouging starts - it takes a long time for it to die down.

I have been in the industry for many decades and seen these starting clear back to the Winchester Black Talon days. And once Biden starts talking gun control - it will go into orbit even further.

This is not just new gun buyers. We saw a little spike earlier in the year, but JAN-FEB were mostly "normal". Once Minn went up in flames - our orders quadrupled that week. They have stayed strong ever since and started building again after the elections. Those were all SD calibers (9mm, 223, 556, 300BO, etc), but now it has spread to everything. Any semi-normal popular caliber is deeply backordered and will be for a long time to come.

We are getting to the point that primers are going to be the lynchpin. They are very expensive to make and everyone that makes them also makes ammo - so why sell your primers if you need them for you ammo? Same thing happened in 2013-2015 except it was powder as well.

It's going to be a long haul. But everyone is shipping records amounts of product - so find a decent price and put in a back order and they will get to you eventually. Handloaders have it a little easier, but not much.

Going to be a long few years - and that is not counting the gun control measures that you KNOW will be coming when Biden gets in - especially if he gets control of the Senate to boot.

Hang on tight.
Appreciate the insight. If this is a repeat occurrence, why have many more not thought ahead and became manufacturers of the primers themselves rather than rely on the thin distribution? Is it difficult to do so? Even so, doesn't seem like a bad business idea but there has to be something I am missing...
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      12-10-2020, 11:29 AM   #4965
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thank you unluky

i guess i'll be whoring myself for 223/556 for a while
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      12-10-2020, 11:52 AM   #4966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unluky View Post
Exactly. I work in the industry and this is even worse than 2013-2015 was, which is the highwater mark for the industry. We are already more than a year backlogged and it is getting worse - not better. Vista Outdoor (owns Federal and now Remington Ammo) just announce the other day to their investors that they are 1 BILLION backordered on ammo alone.

Anyone who thinks this is going to be gone in a few months is smoking crack. This is here for 2021 at LEAST and I'd guess the next 2 years at least before things start settling down. Once the panic buying and gouging starts - it takes a long time for it to die down.

I have been in the industry for many decades and seen these starting clear back to the Winchester Black Talon days. And once Biden starts talking gun control - it will go into orbit even further.

This is not just new gun buyers. We saw a little spike earlier in the year, but JAN-FEB were mostly "normal". Once Minn went up in flames - our orders quadrupled that week. They have stayed strong ever since and started building again after the elections. Those were all SD calibers (9mm, 223, 556, 300BO, etc), but now it has spread to everything. Any semi-normal popular caliber is deeply backordered and will be for a long time to come.

We are getting to the point that primers are going to be the lynchpin. They are very expensive to make and everyone that makes them also makes ammo - so why sell your primers if you need them for you ammo? Same thing happened in 2013-2015 except it was powder as well.

It's going to be a long haul. But everyone is shipping records amounts of product - so find a decent price and put in a back order and they will get to you eventually. Handloaders have it a little easier, but not much.

Going to be a long few years - and that is not counting the gun control measures that you KNOW will be coming when Biden gets in - especially if he gets control of the Senate to boot.

Hang on tight.
Well I don't work in the industry so I won't say you are wrong. I will say I HOPE you are wrong. I need a serious 9mm ammo haul to play with this summer.
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      12-10-2020, 02:09 PM   #4967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesinaz View Post
Well I don't work in the industry so I won't say you are wrong. I will say I HOPE you are wrong. I need a serious 9mm ammo haul to play with this summer.
Well hope all you want - but I'm so far from wrong I can't even remember where it is. =) This is by far the worst rush I have experienced in my almost 30 years in the industry.

Most product we have ever shipped in a single year. Lowest inventory ever recorded in our current facility (since 1992). Most backordered we have ever been.

After 2013 I was not sure anything could have topped it - but this one is. In 2013 we had this huge 6-9 month buying spree which resulted in backorders that took the industry and year to fill and then another year to backfill all the shelves to semi-normal levels. Remember - not only is our warehouse empty - so is every one between us and you the consumer. But after that 6-9 months, incoming sales started fading back closer to more normal levels and stayed there till about 2017 when the valley arrived and we had a very dry year and you started seeing all kind of super sales on everything. We saw a lot of small ammo makers go belly up here that had jumped in during the rush.

But here we are 10 months into this - and the velocity is picking UP - not fading. And once Uncle Joe gets those lips moving and/or the Dems gain the Senate - it'll ratchet back up again.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyl...acklog-billion

If you wait to find it on a shelf - you will be waiting a LONG time. Get a back order in (maybe several at different places) and hold tight. It'll come. But waiting to see it to buy it will gain you nothing - unless you go to a gun show and then be prepared to pay 3-10 times normal prices.

In 2013 I watched with my own eyes a guy pay almost $600 for a case of primers. When the fear hits - people will pay anything. Don't be that guy. Ammo is shipping, it is all just going to backorders.

It's always a good time to learn to reload - but even that has it's challenges in years like this.

It's nuts
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      12-10-2020, 05:03 PM   #4968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unluky View Post
Well hope all you want - but I'm so far from wrong I can't even remember where it is. =) This is by far the worst rush I have experienced in my almost 30 years in the industry.

Most product we have ever shipped in a single year. Lowest inventory ever recorded in our current facility (since 1992). Most backordered we have ever been.

After 2013 I was not sure anything could have topped it - but this one is. In 2013 we had this huge 6-9 month buying spree which resulted in backorders that took the industry and year to fill and then another year to backfill all the shelves to semi-normal levels. Remember - not only is our warehouse empty - so is every one between us and you the consumer. But after that 6-9 months, incoming sales started fading back closer to more normal levels and stayed there till about 2017 when the valley arrived and we had a very dry year and you started seeing all kind of super sales on everything. We saw a lot of small ammo makers go belly up here that had jumped in during the rush.

But here we are 10 months into this - and the velocity is picking UP - not fading. And once Uncle Joe gets those lips moving and/or the Dems gain the Senate - it'll ratchet back up again.

https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyl...acklog-billion

If you wait to find it on a shelf - you will be waiting a LONG time. Get a back order in (maybe several at different places) and hold tight. It'll come. But waiting to see it to buy it will gain you nothing - unless you go to a gun show and then be prepared to pay 3-10 times normal prices.

In 2013 I watched with my own eyes a guy pay almost $600 for a case of primers. When the fear hits - people will pay anything. Don't be that guy. Ammo is shipping, it is all just going to backorders.

It's always a good time to learn to reload - but even that has it's challenges in years like this.

It's nuts
As other have said, thanks for the input. Stay safe!
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      12-10-2020, 05:26 PM   #4969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92 M Sport View Post
As other have said, thanks for the input. Stay safe!
And you as well - keep on shootin - we'll make more! =)
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      12-10-2020, 05:31 PM   #4970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unluky View Post
Exactly. I work in the industry and this is even worse than 2013-2015 was, which is the highwater mark for the industry. We are already more than a year backlogged and it is getting worse - not better. Vista Outdoor (owns Federal and now Remington Ammo) just announce the other day to their investors that they are 1 BILLION backordered on ammo alone.

Anyone who thinks this is going to be gone in a few months is smoking crack. This is here for 2021 at LEAST and I'd guess the next 2 years at least before things start settling down. Once the panic buying and gouging starts - it takes a long time for it to die down.

I have been in the industry for many decades and seen these starting clear back to the Winchester Black Talon days. And once Biden starts talking gun control - it will go into orbit even further.

This is not just new gun buyers. We saw a little spike earlier in the year, but JAN-FEB were mostly "normal". Once Minn went up in flames - our orders quadrupled that week. They have stayed strong ever since and started building again after the elections. Those were all SD calibers (9mm, 223, 556, 300BO, etc), but now it has spread to everything. Any semi-normal popular caliber is deeply backordered and will be for a long time to come.

We are getting to the point that primers are going to be the lynchpin. They are very expensive to make and everyone that makes them also makes ammo - so why sell your primers if you need them for you ammo? Same thing happened in 2013-2015 except it was powder as well.

It's going to be a long haul. But everyone is shipping records amounts of product - so find a decent price and put in a back order and they will get to you eventually. Handloaders have it a little easier, but not much.

Going to be a long few years - and that is not counting the gun control measures that you KNOW will be coming when Biden gets in - especially if he gets control of the Senate to boot.

Hang on tight.
Yup, this is exactly part of what I was referencing. I don't think it will be over shortly, definitely a few years ATLEAST

Thanks for the insight and confirming unluky
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      12-10-2020, 07:08 PM   #4971
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I'm in the industry too and definitely this is the worst I've seen it. Last few years it was bad for dealer due to poorer than normal sales... Now it sucks due to not enough stock for resale. With Joe possibly going into office.. It will just get worst.
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      12-11-2020, 05:46 PM   #4972
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So i may have gone a bit overboard today and bought 200rds of hollowpoints and 100rds of fmj in 9mm
Picked up some gold dots and Sig VCrown so i’m interested to see how these perform
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