F1 2023: Abu Dhabi GP - Yas Marina (Nov 26)

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

This is all it was, he called them a joke and I don't see anything that bad there and I'm sure many Checo and other fans would agree with me.
https://racingnews365.com/perez-lear...dhabi-stewards

Originally Posted by dfox

The penalty was a joke and then calling him in to kiss their feet is pathetic. Those in charge need to be able to take criticism or they shouldn't be there.

Read the decision again.

It states: "The Stewards explained to the driver that they had no issue with someone disagreeing with their decisions, however comments that amount to personal insults are a breach of the International Sporting Code. (...) He was also reminded that the Stewards are always available to explain their decisions when requested by a driver or team representative."

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by Roman

That's a direct reference to this iconic Porsche ad of four decades ago:

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Roman

Yeah . They say nobody is perfect ...'

But MAX was perfect !

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Read the decision again.

It states: "The Stewards explained to the driver that they had no issue with someone disagreeing with their decisions, however comments that amount to personal insults are a breach of the International Sporting Code. (...) He was also reminded that the Stewards are always available to explain their decisions when requested by a driver or team representative."

I have read their decision and I disagree with it.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Yeah . They say nobody is perfect ...'

But MAX was perfect !

Attachment 3330540

21 out of 22 is more than perfect in my book

[M5Rick]

Let's have a look at Max's skill for which no one has an answer.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Read the decision again.

It states: "The Stewards explained to the driver that they had no issue with someone disagreeing with their decisions, however comments that amount to personal insults are a breach of the International Sporting Code. (...) He was also reminded that the Stewards are always available to explain their decisions when requested by a driver or team representative."

I know what they said, but I disagree with them taking action. Where is the personal insult? In literally every sport out there, the athletes criticize the officials. This doesn't cross into personal insult to me, but making him come in and kiss their feet, that's an insult to Checo. That's asserting power just because they can. It feels like a dictatorship.

They got the original call wrong, and they got this wrong. They seem to like making season changing stumbles at the end of the season.

And I stand by my statement: Those in charge need to be able to take criticism or they shouldn't be there.

[toxik]

see you guys next season, thanks for the entertaining threads.

[Marcoose]

Verstappen had zero DNF in 2023. The only full-time driver to finish and score in every race. Very impressive! How often does that happen?

[Autobacs]

That was a hell of a season. So happy ALO made the right move for a change.

Until 2024!

[Davil]

Originally Posted by Autobacs

That was a hell of a season. So happy ALO made the right move for a change.

Until 2024!

The P4 battle was great. I was constantly doing numbers in my head. Well done Fernando.

Take that Dutch bloke out of the equation and this was a very exciting season.

Looking forward to ‘24.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Davil

The P4 battle was great. I was constantly doing numbers in my head. Well done Fernando.

Take that Dutch bloke out of the equation and this was a very exciting season.

Looking forward to ‘24.

Wishful thinking, not going to happen and he's Belgian whatever the flags show.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Wishful thinking, not going to happen and he's Belgian whatever the flags show.

What matters is the performance with an F1 car, regardless race, color, creed, nationality, etc. Feel free to root for any driver worldwide and to respect rival drivers of any place on the surface of the planet. All citizens of the world.

If Verstappen, Norris and Stroll (who all got Belgian mothers) identify themselves as Dutch, British or Canadian because of the nationality of their fathers, then they are to be considered Dutch, British and Canadian and to fly those flags.

Flemish (Belgium) versus Dutch can be compared to British versus American: virtually the same language but with a different pronunciation and some dedicated vocabulary. Verstappen's accent/tongue is unmistakably Dutch rather than Flemish (play a soundbite of his voice and all Flemish listeners will confirm that it's clearly Dutch, not Flemish).

Verstappen's DNA: 50% Flemish/Belgian (mother Sophie) + 50% Dutch (father Jos). In F1 he opted to fly the Dutch flag. He is fully entitled to do that - no-one should criticize his personal choice.

Verstappen's nationality has been a heated topic between his parents. It's no secret that mother Sophie and father Jos have gone through a messy divorce.

• Verstappen until he was 18 and his ties to Belgium: his mother, his birthplace (Hasselt), the house where he was raised (Maaseik), his ID / passport (travel documents), his earlier school days (Maaseik), the vast majority of his karting training (Genk karting circuit) and Belgian karting series competition;
• Verstappen until he was 18 and his ties to The Netherlands: his father, Dutch friends he visited, his later school days (Sittard), Dutch karting series competition (he was allowed to compete because his father is Dutch), his accent/tongue, his personal choice to race F1 under the Dutch flag (Dutch flag sticker on the car).

Back in 2015 the Verstappen parents had a quarrel in the press over the nationality of Max. Mother Sophie strongly insisted that Max was Belgian and must be considered to be Belgian until the day he'd turn 18 (2015). That statement angered Jos.

• Sophie: "He's Belgian and not Dutch. He cannot apply for Dutch nationality until he turns 18 in September [2015]. In the meantime, he is Belgian and nothing else."; also in 2015 she insisted that his first F1 points (Malaysia 2015) should be considered "Belgian" F1 points instead of "Dutch" F1 points because he only had a Belgian ID / passport and had been registered in F1 through her;
• Jos: "The situation is that Max has both nationalities, because Sophie and I were married when he was born. But since he races under a Dutch licence, he is a bit more Dutch than Belgian. He feels that way himself. If the Netherlands has to play football against Belgium, he supports the Dutch. And when he is 18 and has to choose, it will be for the Dutch nationality."
• Max (about applying for a Dutch passport when he turned 18): "I chose The Netherlands, also because of my father. In the end, I am happy to have two nationalities. I know that in the end I am both, since the day I was born."

His favorite circuit ? Spa-Francorchamps / Belgium:

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Artemis

What matters is the performance with an F1 car, regardless race, color, creed, nationality, etc. Feel free to root for any driver worldwide and to respect rival drivers of any place on the surface of the planet. All citizens of the world.

If Verstappen, Norris and Stroll (who all got Belgian mothers) identify themselves as Dutch, British or Canadian because of the nationality of their fathers, then they are to be considered Dutch, British and Canadian and to fly those flags.

I disagree with you. Read my previous post again, as far as where you were born you can put up as many flags as you like against your name but where Max was born, in Hasselt,Belgium makes him originally Belgian.
I was born in UK and my mom and dad were from abroad but I recognise myself as from the Union Jack flag, after all you can only fly one flag at a time.

[NickyC]

Congrats to Max for a record breaking year. Hope to see more competition in 2024 but since this is F1, I won’t expect too much.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I disagree with you. Read my previous post again, as far as where you were born you can put up as many flags as you like against your name but where Max was born, in Hasselt,Belgium makes him originally Belgian.
I was born in UK and my mom and dad were from abroad but I recognise myself as from the Union Jack flag, after all you can only fly one flag at a time.

The physical location of the hospital he was born in means nothing. He has dual citizenship and can chose what country he wants to represent, as they've both granted him citizenship.

Olympians do it all the time as well.

Seems like you would like to be recognized as a UK citizen, and that's your right... just as it's Max's right to consider himself Dutch...

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by dfox

The physical location of the hospital he was born in means nothing. He has dual citizenship and can chose what country he wants to represent, as they've both granted him citizenship.

Olympians do it all the time as well.

Seems like you would like to be recognized as a UK citizen, and that's your right... just as it's Max's right to consider himself Dutch...

It wasn't just in the hospital where he was born, Belgium was his home for many years.
Naturally it's up to him to choose any nationality he likes, like any successful sportsperson, to suit things like marketing etc and the strong bond with his dad, who made him who he is today together with the huge 'Orange Army' following which eventually made him change to Dutch and I'm glad whatever he does, though from my perspective he will always be a Belgian.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Max's pole, race win and FL perfectly complements that quick vid of his F1 start year to the present...and leading more than 1000 laps this year smashes another record, leaving just one or two more to go, this is just the start

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Another record smashed by Max, must be constantly filling up the Guinness Book of Records

[Artemis]

BBC Sport went savage.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

It wasn't just in the hospital where he was born, Belgium was his home for many years.
Naturally it's up to him to choose any nationality he likes, like any successful sportsperson, to suit things like marketing etc and the strong bond with his dad, who made him who he is today together with the huge 'Orange Army' following which eventually made him change to Dutch and I'm glad whatever he does, though from my perspective he will always be a Belgian.

Citizenship defines it for me. I have a good buddy who is American born with dual citizenship. He grew up in the US as a dual citizen. Years ago he moved to Canada and basically said he's never moving back. He hates the US and everything about it... if he were an F1 racer, why should he be forced to fly a flag for a country that he despises, when he is a full fledged citizen of another country that better represents his values?

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by dfox

Citizenship defines it for me. I have a good buddy who is American born with dual citizenship. He grew up in the US as a dual citizen. Years ago he moved to Canada and basically said he's never moving back. He hates the US and everything about it... if he were an F1 racer, why should he be forced to fly a flag for a country that he despises, when he is a full fledged citizen of another country that better represents his values?

Good riddance