Karbonius CF reproduction of standard S54 plenum **PROTOTYPE VIDEO**

[maupineda]

Ah now I get it, you asked about the air filter box, the issue is that is in contact with the Karbonius manifold. I would not run it, with engine roll they will be rubbing on each other and may damage the CF.

I don’t mind the eventuri look, in fact the OE air filter box is too bulky

But like you I kept my CSL airbox in case I want to run it again. I guess is nice to have options

[MBan]

I never got the air filter box fully installed as the dipstick was so close I didn't think it would clear that, so never tried clearance to the box itself. Good to know - saves me some time trying again!

Very keen to see Karbonius's 'permanent' fix for the OEM-style plenum.

[GuggagZ4M]

Hello all, at the weekend I had some time to take care of the Karbonius airbox and the problem with the slipping pipe bend.

Because the tape from Karbonius does not last long.

What I could now analyze was: The pipe bend is slightly on tension, IF you also drive with Eventuri.
Because the angle is different and you have so more than 90 degrees.
This pulls the pipe elbow from the airbox when the engine gets warm and thus the adhesive of the tape begins to soften.

So I was looking for a more heat resistant tape. I then found one which should hold out loosely up to 90 degrees. Testwise I stuck this then on a block and it with a hair dryer easily heated... here too, the glue was then slowly soft and the slide off on train.

So now I used a piece of grip tape from a tennis racket and glued it down with SIKA 522. Because Sikaflex is temperature resistant and does not soften when it gets warm.

This also holds really great.

In addition, I have the angle of the pipe bend (no SOrge, I still have an original new second there) under heat expanded to take out tension. Since the pipe bend presses back into its old shape when it heats up again, I lubricated the grooves with SIKA 522 to prevent it from deforming back.

So I thought, finally it works. But unfortunately the pipe bend still slips off as soon as I tighten the pipe clamp. Unfortunately, Karbonius has really "mist" built here. This is maybe too slanted instead of straight. Today I will try something else and keep you informed.


Now to another problem uncovered IF you should go with Eventuri:
The pipe bend must also be sloped further down on the Eventuri, because Eventuri sits lower than the original air cleaner box. But this in turn leads to the problem that the pipe bend comes to the cable connector of the auxiliary cooling pump. Especially when the engine moves while driving, this is not nice.

Again, I have now turned the pump 180 degrees by loosening the magnetic block (looks like an electric motor) with the 4 screws and turned.

Now it is still totally tight, but fits much better.

On the subject of oil dipstick, by the way, I have no problems. Mine fits great. I have only used two more plastic washers to get 3-4mm more distance to the airbox.

[maupineda]

^^^ the floor anti slip tape has worked well for me for 1,500 kms of driving and it has not even moved a bit (i color marked it to have visual reference)

And yes the issue is the shape, it has too much draft angle (very sure this was done to de mold the part)

I tightened the clamp with a socket and and extension and go as far as I can with hand force, it does not need anymore.

You need grip or physical retention, no cloth or pvc tape will give you that.

Other solution is to drill the boot and intake mouth and put a plastic pin through. I did this when one of the pins from my old CSL box cut off. But since the slip tape works, no need to mess with the carbon plenum anymore.

On the other problem you documented, i put the secondary water pump at an incline by attaching it just by the rearward grommet. This was done at the same time I put the anti slip tape and it has also been trouble free, but I loved your solution more as it leaves all factory like. Will do the same, thanks for sharing.

[grannyknot]

It seems to me Karbonius needs to mould in a lip into the end of of the opening just like the stock box has, something for the elbow clamp to grab onto.

That won't help you guys who all ready own the first version but would fix a glaring oversight in their design.

[maupineda]

Sharing a few images of what are good solutions to avoid the boot coming off

Anti-slip tape (cheap and easy). also this tape is extremely thin, so it doesn't make the boot much more difficult to sit, that said, just don't overlay or stack any additional layers, cut the tape so that the ends meet line to line. in my photo you can see there is a bit of overlay of the tape ends, I need to fix it, as the fit is very tight and any added material makes the fit tighter.



Pin, you`d need to drill the boot and the manifold mouth lip, and though I am more than sure this works, I would not recommend it as is a permanent modification. I did it on my CSL box as the original pins had sheered off, the carbon and vibration did it, so I added a grommet to prevent the same from happening again to the new pin. it worked fine like for 6k kms until I switched to the OE style manifold.

[GuggagZ4M]

Sooo guys, solution(s) found. Finally. Am happy.

I have now shortened the tennis racket strap so far in width that the elbow now even slides properly "over" and there then by itself even completely to the box. If I then tighten the clamp, it is even really tight.

That holds now really bomb and is also absolutely tight, because the tennis tape also has a very good sealing function.

Since I'm a bit skeptical with your tape (@maupineda), because the surface is very rough (like a 40 sandpaper). And without wanting to exaggerate, I would also be a little afraid that small grains of sand can loosen and get into the intake tract. It's unlikely, but I have to admit that my variant seems a bit safer to me. Also more sealing.

To the additional pump I have solved it as follows. I have set this by means of 5mm aluminum profiles about 20mm deeper.

This holds bombproof and it is as from the factory on a scale instead of oblique.

Because the water pump now sits deeper I could also finally tilt the elbow down much nicer. Now everything sits exactly as it should and especially without much tension.

[MBan]

Originally Posted by GuggagZ4M

Hello all, at the weekend I had some time to take care of the Karbonius airbox and the problem with the slipping pipe bend.

Because the tape from Karbonius does not last long.

What I could now analyze was: The pipe bend is slightly on tension, IF you also drive with Eventuri.
Because the angle is different and you have so more than 90 degrees.
This pulls the pipe elbow from the airbox when the engine gets warm and thus the adhesive of the tape begins to soften.

So I was looking for a more heat resistant tape. I then found one which should hold out loosely up to 90 degrees. Testwise I stuck this then on a block and it with a hair dryer easily heated... here too, the glue was then slowly soft and the slide off on train.

So now I used a piece of grip tape from a tennis racket and glued it down with SIKA 522. Because Sikaflex is temperature resistant and does not soften when it gets warm.

This also holds really great.

In addition, I have the angle of the pipe bend (no SOrge, I still have an original new second there) under heat expanded to take out tension. Since the pipe bend presses back into its old shape when it heats up again, I lubricated the grooves with SIKA 522 to prevent it from deforming back.

So I thought, finally it works. But unfortunately the pipe bend still slips off as soon as I tighten the pipe clamp. Unfortunately, Karbonius has really "mist" built here. This is maybe too slanted instead of straight. Today I will try something else and keep you informed.


Now to another problem uncovered IF you should go with Eventuri:
The pipe bend must also be sloped further down on the Eventuri, because Eventuri sits lower than the original air cleaner box. But this in turn leads to the problem that the pipe bend comes to the cable connector of the auxiliary cooling pump. Especially when the engine moves while driving, this is not nice.

Again, I have now turned the pump 180 degrees by loosening the magnetic block (looks like an electric motor) with the 4 screws and turned.

Now it is still totally tight, but fits much better.

On the subject of oil dipstick, by the way, I have no problems. Mine fits great. I have only used two more plastic washers to get 3-4mm more distance to the airbox.

Tennis racket grip tape seems to me like something that may go brittle after a few heat cycles in the engine bay?

What do you think about building up a bit of a lip on the opening of the intake using some kind of hard resin? You could rough up the surface with sandpaper and it might grip pretty well? This is a permanent modification but without some kind of modification it really isn't a usable part anyway.

Also, did you leave in the flat rubber ring that inserts in a groove on the inside of the elbow?

[GuggagZ4M]

The tennis racket tape is very resistant. Because it consists of a fabric (so not just rubber or something).

I have now driven quite a few kilometers and it no longer slips off anything. It is still in the same position as at the beginning and even if I pull on it... it holds great.


Of course, I'm still waiting for the solution from Karbonius itself. I am curious.

By the way, I do not use the rubber ring. Because that did not fit at all with me. With the OEM already... but with the Karbonius no longer. Have tried everything... but was too tight.

[MBan]

Originally Posted by GuggagZ4M

The tennis racket tape is very resistant. Because it consists of a fabric (so not just rubber or something).

I have now driven quite a few kilometers and it no longer slips off anything. It is still in the same position as at the beginning and even if I pull on it... it holds great.


Of course, I'm still waiting for the solution from Karbonius itself. I am curious.

By the way, I do not use the rubber ring. Because that did not fit at all with me. With the OEM already... but with the Karbonius no longer. Have tried everything... but was too tight.

Thanks!

[Barryb97]

I wasn't too concerned about this after my install. Car ran great. Did a short test drive. Today I went out for a longer drive and it popped off! I have a track day Friday so I bit the bullet and put the OEM air box back on.

Seems like Karbonis has given us an inferior product. Does their current fix even work? I'm thinking the lip needs to be built up similar to the OEM. Maybe a little resign or well applied epoxy. I really want this to work but I want to have a no worry installation.

[MBan]

Originally Posted by Barryb97

I wasn't too concerned about this after my install. Car ran great. Did a short test drive. Today I went out for a longer drive and it popped off! I have a track day Friday so I bit the bullet and put the OEM air box back on.

Seems like Karbonis has given us an inferior product. Does their current fix even work? I'm thinking the lip needs to be built up similar to the OEM. Maybe a little resign or well applied epoxy. I really want this to work but I want to have a no worry installation.

It’s a bit of a bummer. Maupineda and GuggagZ4M both have solutions they’re happy with. There is another Zpost member who built a CF plenum in pretty much the same configuration as ours but before it was even a twinkle in Karbonius’s eye. I asked in his build thread about building up a lip on the inlet and he wasn’t very positive. This is the thread:

https://www.zpost.com/forums/showthr...8#post30021798

[maupineda]

I have driven 2,600kms and no issue so far. I have driven the crap out of the car (slide, burn out, etc.) just to make sure and all is good.

And the concern GuggagZ4M expressed with using anti-slip tape is really not even a possibility.

[F360C]

Originally Posted by MBan

Thanks - I quite like the idea of going back to the standard airbox for a more OE look. Although, a post by pokeybritches in another thread about alpha n not being so bad after all has got me thinking about the full CSL option again!

AlphaN on a Z4M is not bad at all and I think the problems some people had with alphaN in e46 M3 got people scared over here... our Alpha N is different then the E46 M3 in that we have a wide band 02 sensor which allows precise fuel control. E46 M3 uses a narrow bank 02 so its super hard to control fueling.

I drive a MAF z4 M coupe and my alphaN one back to back a lot and the only difference is first gear is more sensitive. Other then that there is no difference in the feel between the two tunes.

[maupineda]

Alpha N is less refined in throttle transients and it can make it kangaroo a bit. This is what people call “hesitations” too. Is not bad, but not perfect either as MAF is.

I have a CSL Karb box collecting dust just because of this.

[MBan]

Good news - Karbonius now has a permanent solution to the plastic elbow slipping off.

Karbonius has advised:
"We have developed a solution for the slipping of the tube
Can tell the people on the group they can ask for a kit and we will ship
It includes glue and a laser 3D printed nylon frame"

Pictures below.

[grannyknot]

Nice! Good for them for coming up with a permanent fix.

[Barryb97]

How do we ask for a kit?

[MBan]

Originally Posted by Barryb97

How do we ask for a kit?

Just send them an email.

[MBan]

I received the 3D printed airbox lip late last week and installed it over the weekend. It fitted perfectly and while the adhesive was a bit tricky to work with - I made a bit of a mess - it is now rock solid after 24 hours curing. I reinstalled the plastic elbow this afternoon and it popped over the lip and locked into place. I took it off and on a couple of times and it worked beautifully each time. I won’t have time to go for a drive until next weekend but this really does seem to be the permanent fix we’ve been hoping for.

I also copied GuggagZ4M’s approach to lowering the secondary water pump. I bought some pre-made aluminium tabs that I think are used in 3D printers. These are about 4mm thick and pre-drilled in two spots. They are also anodised black so you barely see them. The space between the holes on the tab is about 20mm, which dropped the pump enough that the wires coming out of the top clear the plastic elbow by about 10mm.

If this all hangs together, I’m going to be very happy!

[Barryb97]

Received my kit and attempted to install it tonight. The ring is too large to fit inside the opening. I tried sanding the intake a bit. No go. Then I tried heating the intake and putting the ring in the freezer. Still no go. I don't want to be too rough with anything and break it. Any other experiences with the new "Fix"?

Very frustrated!

[maupineda]

I am not convinced by that solution, if it fits the opening I see the point, but it is now just something else that could break / go wrong, plus you are effectively making the main intake opening smaller.

The box should of had a lip molded, not sure there is a real solution unless they redesign it, but due to low demand (I hope I am wrong) it very likely won’t happen.

The good news is that is not the end of the world as it can be made to work perfect as is with minimal cost and effort.

I may order my “fix” kit just in case, but almost certain I wont use it.