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01-14-2013, 08:52 PM | #67 | |
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One cannot point to the current allegation as proof of prior conduct or a pattern of behavior. Last edited by DR Z4; 01-14-2013 at 08:52 PM.. Reason: spelling |
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01-14-2013, 09:04 PM | #68 | |
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01-15-2013, 03:08 PM | #69 |
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While I understand the point about the bail and only the current offense as evidence of danger to society, I believe that no bail, or a high bail is soley at the the discretion of the judge and is largely based on the body of evidence and nature of the offense for which the accused is charged. Previous crimes are also taken into consideration, but in this case the evidence is so overwhelming that I am shocked he set bail at all. This is not a circumstantial case, there are eyewitnesses, physical evidence from his car and other places, as well as strong circumstantial evidence. I just hope he does not make bail and turn this into an international manhunt. Bowman is no dummy.
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01-15-2013, 04:09 PM | #70 | |
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01-16-2013, 12:52 PM | #71 | |
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It's fine that we are looking at background checks, bans, etc. but when is someone going to aske the real question: What is going on in our society and culture that has contributed to this ever increasing violence? Without the answer to that question we will never fix the problem. I grew up in the 50's and the 60's and events like the ones in the past two years were EXTREMELY rare. Something has changed and we need to figure out what. I suspect that if we look at this question we will find several items, each of which are fairly innocuous, have all combined to create the societal problem. We need to identfy them. |
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01-16-2013, 06:35 PM | #72 | |
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09-22-2013, 03:38 PM | #73 |
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Laws, Laws, Laws and more laws. More laws are NOT going to do NOTHING! Cars can be weapons and any idiot can get a drivers license. Its funny how people on the west and east coast have been brain washed into believing that government can take care of this or that guns are the problem. The problem is kids that didn't get the crap beat out of them when they messed by a dad that cared enough to do so, then they grew up to be self centered punks. That's my 2 cents let see who that fires up.
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09-22-2013, 03:49 PM | #74 |
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I agree with so much of what is being said her, both about the case and society. I grew up in the early 60's and had a heavy hand raise me. I came out with no mental issues or scarring, just respect for others, decent breeding, strong work ethic. But my dad would have my brother and I strap on boxing gloves when we rivaled as siblings.......worked like a charm !
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09-22-2013, 05:13 PM | #75 |
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Lets blame Video Games; that's a popular belief right now...
Of course in my influential years it was Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck cartoons that caused many to be social deviates...
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09-23-2013, 04:10 AM | #77 | |
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09-23-2013, 01:00 PM | #78 | |
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May 2013 - Street racing responsible for local mother's death June 2013 - Street racer kills two teens in Woodstock July 2013 - Street racing death of Antoich teen Imagine - Every month, there is a new horror story of senseless death from street racing. It's on all the papers, websites, and tv. Media would draw parallels to The Fast and the Furious. Outraged, people start asking seemingly sensible questions. Moderates - "Why do we have cars with 300+ horsepower that can go in excess of 140mph? Why do you NEED a car like that? I don't think you should have that car taken away, but all cars should have electronic speed limiters set at 75mph. Why would you legally need to ever drive faster than that?" Car enthusiasts would say that they go to the track and practice their hobbies responsibly and that the number of people who street race illegally, although they seem numerous because because of the media attention, are truly the minority. Some people don't track but just want to be able to own the cars they want without being modified or changed. Plus, people intent on breaking the law would simply remove the limiters anyway, thus only penalizing law abiding citizens. The media might paint these people who go to the track as car nuts who are wannabe race car drivers and "if you want to do that, just become a race car driver and leave driving at the track to professionals". Conservatives - "These dangerous high horsepower race cars shouldn't be allowed on the road. Why do you need so much power to just get from point A to point B? Plus, some of these cars (like my BMW Z4M) can get as low as 17MPG. Any car on the road should be required to get at LEAST 25MPG city AND have less than 300hp." Then there would also be those with just enough knowledge of cars to be dangerous: "Street racers love the use of rear wheel drive cars, which allows them to "drift" and are inherently hard to control. If someone wants a "fast car", they could just drive something like a Mini Cooper. It's front wheel drive and 200 hp is MORE than enough to do anything legal. No RWD cars." Extremists - "Why do we even have cars? Other countries don't have nearly as many cars as we do. Places like Hong Kong have very little private car ownership and most people use public transportation, ride bikes or walk. There is actually a long wait and a lottery to have the privilege of owning a car there and I don't see why we couldn't be like them. Outlaw cars or at least and make them VERY hard and expensive to obtain. There is no reason anyone NEEDS a car, let alone these dangerous RACE CARS." Bottom line Think of any activity you love or any thing you like or want to own and imagine if I said "Tell me why you NEED to have that. Justify it or it's illegal". We should always need to justify why we CAN'T have freedoms not why we CAN. We don't need a lot of things. The nice thing about living in a free country is the right to do what you want. Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. When we give up our freedoms because irresponsible people are irresponsible, that's very sad.
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09-23-2013, 01:01 PM | #79 | |
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Everything may not be applicable when you take the differences into account and oversimplification is something you have to be aware of when making a comparison.
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09-23-2013, 02:29 PM | #80 | ||
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I don't want to ban the car or guns but I also don't think removing all restrictions on how cars are operated would be a good one. We don't live in a free country and I can't think of any part of my life where I am not restricted on the things I do. From noise, speed limits, taxes, permits, laws, insurance, nudity, driving, etc. Our society has created many laws based on making the overall system work. If you really want to live in a free country you are probably going to have to move to a 3rd world country that is in some type of lawless condition. Good luck in the "free country", there you will need the gun. Quote:
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09-23-2013, 04:54 PM | #81 | |||||
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Also, something to remember is that firearms are a protected right where as driving a vehicle is a privilege. But yes, both are regulated and this is mostly irrelevant to the original question regarding restricting certain features or accessories and who needs to justify why. Quote:
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My point was that the burden of proof lies on those that wish to regulate and remove freedom, not the other way around. "Justify why you need this" is a clear shifting of the Burden. Quote:
If you are going to compare us to other countries, you have to ask... which country and why? Brazil has less guns, more gun control and more gun deaths. But why should we compare ourselves to them? Should we have less gun control here because there is more gun violence there? I'm assume you're not going to argue for that. If you're going to make a comparison to a different country, first you need to show why they are relevant. You also have to decide if you are looking at curbing murder or simply murder with firearms. Restricting or banning firearms may get you the desired result of reducing firearm deaths. But will it reduce violent deaths or will we have the same violence with less freedom (or the absolute worst case, more violence and less freedom). Here's a very recent study out of Harvard looking at gun control in Europe. http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf Quote:
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09-23-2013, 05:11 PM | #82 |
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Beer at fast Food Restaurants is a good idea anyway you slice it Even if it's tasteless Mexican Crap
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09-24-2013, 12:51 AM | #83 |
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That's what I took from this! But only if they allow open carry......
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09-24-2013, 07:45 AM | #84 |
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I skimmed your reply above but I am not interested enough in this debate with you enough to read all of it. There is no "burden of proof" needed to create laws and many laws are created without guaranteeing the outcome. When we create laws that don't work we have the ability to alter or remove them. I am not happy with the current system and its' results when it comes to gun violence and believe we should try something else. I am open to ideas on how to change the current system to make it better. You are welcome to believe otherwise. I also believe this one of many problems our society has and in the big picture of my life this isn't something I dwell on. I am also pretty sure neither of our opinions on this issue will change.
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09-24-2013, 10:25 AM | #85 |
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Come on mate, actually the locals here are sometimes very thoughtful,generous and kind, just sometimes extremely impolite.
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09-24-2013, 12:00 PM | #86 | |
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The reason it is a right to bear arms is to protect the people against a tyrannical government. Sure, nobody wants to think that will ever happen, but it very well could happen. It will be a lot more difficult to become that way with millions of civilians armed with weapons that almost rival the ones the military is issued. If we all only had 1 handgun and 10 round mags without the ability to quickly change them, then the government/military would have a much much more significant advantage. As it stands, the right to bear arms is a protection for all of us. The reason I bear arms is to protect your rights as well as mine. You are welcome. Plus, they are a hell of a lot of fun to shoot
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09-24-2013, 01:04 PM | #87 |
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I've seen political discussions go seriously wrong on other forums; be sure to avoid that big ugly pothole here. I view this to be a domestic issue for debate by my US buddies so I won't offer any views on this topic other than the above.
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09-24-2013, 06:25 PM | #88 | |
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