Alignment specs - yay or nay?

[RADRACR]

Opinions on this alignment? It's a DD with light track duty:

Front:
Camber: -2.5º
Toe-in: 1mm (2mm total)

I ordered this camber kit.

Rear:
Camber: -1.5º
Toe-in: 2mm (4mm total)

Achievable with no additional parts, correct?

I'm not too concerned with front wear because the last time I changed tires with stock specs the fronts looked brand new while the rears were fried. I don't want to deal with tramlining at all, as it's a DD.

[Finnegan]

Achievable, yes, with those parts. Might not get to -1.5 rear, you can try, depends, might get -1.6. Have a good 10K plus track days at -1.7 rear w/o any odd wear. Maybe the prior alignment was off?

Go zero toe in front if you go with with those specs. Any toe is going to accelerate wear with that much negative camber.

Or you could do what I've done, align with two washers ask the shop to align to get even minimum camber (with those two washers) on both sides. That will give you around -1.7 with a tiny bit (1/32) of toe-in up front. Mark off the settings around the shock tower nuts with a grease-pen. Before a track day (or at the track) jack up the front a bit and move the struts all the way in. That will get around -2.5 front with some toe-out. (It's going to be slightly different on each side, but not enough to matter.) Then slide things back to where you've marked things when done. (Got this idea from The Hack.) The difference in handling with a lot of negative camber and some toe-out is fabulous--not something I'd want for the street but on the track it's great.

Note: Wife's car is currently at -1.7 front zero toe, compared to mine at about the same with minimal slight toe-in, and there's not that much tramlining/nervousness difference. (Tiny diffs really since I have minimal toe-in.) The biggest difference is from the negative camber, which makes turn-in way crisper the and the car a bit more nervous the further you go (-2.5 > -1.7 > stock). YMMD, that's how it feels to me.

[onebluemcm]

I like the idea of setting it up to minimum camber with the washers and then adjusting it at the track, nice suggestion!

I also was going to chime in to mention slight toe out - I'm quite certain they set up the M coupe that my friend's team had in Koni Challenge with some toe out. Should dramatically change the feel of turn-in, if I'm not mistaken.

BTW, what's max achievable neg camber up front with stock suspension? Then, how would a slight drop affect that, say 3/8 - 1/2" from Dinan springs? -1.5 comes to mind, if that's the case then ending up around -1.7 with the washers at minimum camber really isn't too bad, it is? I put on the Dinan springs with Ground Control (really Koni Yellow) struts and just maxed out the camber all the way on both sides, but never really got it aligned or figured out where I'm at in negative camber. It's on the street only now, wasn't too worried about a precision setup for now. Just wondering.

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Before a track day (or at the track) jack up the front a bit and move the struts all the way in. That will get around -2.5 front with some toe-out. (It's going to be slightly different on each side, but not enough to matter.) Then slide things back to where you've marked things when done. (Got this idea from The Hack.)

I suppose if you were worried about it being slightly different you could have a shop set it up at -2.5 (or whatever you want) and then make marks for that position too. Then you've kind of got the poor man's camber plates, which I don't mean in a negative way at all, I'd be fine with that. Should work though, no?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by onebluemcm

I like the idea of setting it up to minimum camber with the washers and then adjusting it at the track, nice suggestion!

I also was going to chime in to mention slight toe out - I'm quite certain they set up the M coupe that my friend's team had in Koni Challenge with some toe out. Should dramatically change the feel of turn-in, if I'm not mistaken.

BTW, what's max achievable neg camber up front with stock suspension? Then, how would a slight drop affect that, say 3/8 - 1/2" from Dinan springs? -1.5 comes to mind, if that's the case then ending up around -1.7 with the washers at minimum camber really isn't too bad, it is? I put on the Dinan springs with Ground Control (really Koni Yellow) struts and just maxed out the camber all the way on both sides, but never really got it aligned or figured out where I'm at in negative camber. It's on the street only now, wasn't too worried about a precision setup for now. Just wondering

I suppose if you were worried about it being slightly different you could have a shop set it up at -2.5 (or whatever you want) and then make marks for that position too. Then you've kind of got the poor man's camber plates, which I don't mean in a negative way at all, I'd be fine with that. Should work though, no?

Agreed, the slight toe-out does improve turn-in. That and the negative camber make the car handle very differently from a stock set-up.

IIRC the rule for the amount of negative camber is around -.5 for every 1" lowered. The slight drop would give you -.2 or -3. But I'm by no means sure. But aside from camber, lowering also changes toe, and it's worth it to get an alignment to manage toe, which can really eat tires.

Stock you can get just a bit over -1.0 (maybe a bit more) in front on the Z4M. If you use the method the Hack suggested, you'd end up around -1.9 to -2.0 in front.

And yes, you could have the shop mark out both settings I suppose (good idea). Aligned properly, both my left and right sides have more or less the same setting, so moving them to max with some toe-out it's probably results in pretty close settings left to right. And yes, poor man's camber plates! That's what I called them too when the Hack suggested it!