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06-10-2013, 07:39 PM | #45 | ||
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My understanding is that water actually makes the best heat exchanger. Coolant is mixed in so water doesn't freeze in the radiator. Anyway, hope this wasn't too far OT.
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06-10-2013, 08:18 PM | #46 | |||||
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Please do! One question. Have you EVER seem limp mode twice in one session? Me, never. Never ever ever. That is one thing (that and the lack of any codes being thrown) that makes me think the issue is not related to a specific temp range being breeched. Also, I bet there have been instances where you've gone into limp mode early in the session, before the car even gets to full track heat? That's what made me so hopeful for your fuel pressure solution. But I guess it's more complicated than that. It's like the ECU is making a judgement call based on a collection of measurements that have been adversely affected by rapidly increasing temps, rather than the temp itself. And because there is not one specific variable it can identify as the cause, it doesn't throw a code. Sounds stupid I know, but that's what it seems like.
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2006 IBlue BMW Z4 MC - ESS VT2-525 Supercharged, JRZ RS1 suspension (500#F, 600#R) with Vorshlag plates, ST Trophy BBK with CL R6E pads, KKS gated exhaust, TMS sway bars, RE rear camber arms, VT engine mounts, Recaro Pole Position (driver), APR GT wing, Street: Volk G2s and Potenza, Track: Volk TE37SLs and BFG R1s.
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06-10-2013, 09:06 PM | #47 | |
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To answer your question yes it started happening despite short shifting, and no I'm not going to settle on babying the car to work around the problem. Towards the afternoon when it was hottest it happened 4 times in one session. There really isn't an option to take it easier I'm already starting a gear higher 5th vs. 4th at the start of the straight (5th gear at 90mph is not ideal)and it was happening at the end of the straight at around 7800 rpm despite that. I'm not going to shift into 6th with 100 feet left in the straight. Even coasting the last several hundred feet it limped once. It's 100% the extra boost as I was running 230 oil temps max in the same conditions taking every gear to redline with my VT-1(I did have a M6 oil cooler on the VT-1). With that setup I had limp mode very rarely on track. |
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06-10-2013, 10:36 PM | #49 | ||
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Some interesting VT2 E46 cooling discussions here, especially comments relating to the Bimmerworld E46 C&R Racing radiator. http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=421190
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2006 IBlue BMW Z4 MC - ESS VT2-525 Supercharged, JRZ RS1 suspension (500#F, 600#R) with Vorshlag plates, ST Trophy BBK with CL R6E pads, KKS gated exhaust, TMS sway bars, RE rear camber arms, VT engine mounts, Recaro Pole Position (driver), APR GT wing, Street: Volk G2s and Potenza, Track: Volk TE37SLs and BFG R1s.
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06-10-2013, 10:48 PM | #50 |
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damn these cooling issues. I honestly had the oil temp start to creep up immediately after a hard autocross run in 90* ambient temps. It drops down to normal in about 1 minute though
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06-11-2013, 01:41 AM | #51 | |
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06-11-2013, 04:53 AM | #52 | ||
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06-11-2013, 08:45 PM | #54 | |
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Also, $1,000 would be reasonable if it fixes our issue, but not if it is no help. Perhaps we can get a list of people together who are interested, show it to Zionville and ask that they heavily discount one for you, so you can be the test case. You get a sizable discount, Zionville get an instant bulk order, and we get pre-order piece of mind (especially important for those of us importing from half a world away). It's win win win. Except for you if it has little or no impact of course. One issue is, people are going to complain it's not 52mm. As long as it brings our temps down on hard tracking, I couldn't care less about it's capacity. Anyway, gmd2003 if you are interested, ask Zion all your initial questions if you have any, and then if you like I can go about writing up a thread and negotiating something with Zion, possibly initiate a group buy but most importantly get the cost of that first unit as low as possible. Or if you just wanna roll the dice on your own, keep us in the loop! FYI, couple of threads on Z3 Zion rads (lots more threads floating around on non-Z's no doubt). Very little detail but they suggest Zionsville would be good people to deal with: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=347794 http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=216832
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06-11-2013, 08:46 PM | #55 |
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Yes to better cooling (materials alone would account for this, aside from design) though total impact is unknown. Size difference is currently unknown, but it seems implied they are the same size. There will be more info here soon no doubt.
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06-12-2013, 05:29 AM | #56 |
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VMZ432,
I do not understand your comment that 'the Z4M does not have enough cooling capacity for the track'? If you say this with regards to having a SC I would have to agree looking at the data that everyone else has posted, since I do not have a SC. I would disagree if you are talking about a stockish (not SC) engine. Just my personal experience over the last three or four years on the track with this car says you are incorrect. I have been on the track in 100’ ambient temps and my oil temperature has never been above 225. If the temperature is less than 100’ the oil temps always hover around 220. This past weekend at the track, the ambient temp was 95’ and my oil temps never climbed above 205, but I am using a different weight oil now also which allows my engine to run a tad bit cooler all the time now. Even on the street. |
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06-12-2013, 08:11 AM | #57 | |
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I went ahead and ordered from them because I am a very impatient man, and want to do some track days without issues! I will be the guinea pig for everyone else |
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06-12-2013, 08:20 AM | #58 | |
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Stock it really is variable , but depends on the track and most importantly the drivers skill level. I had no problems NA at Roebling Road (Momentum track with a long straight), but did run hot at CMP (lots of braking/ turns and acceleration). The bottom line is to truly track a car hard in hot conditions cooling modifications are always useful . The Z4M for an OEM car is set up well for occasional track use but once you reach an advanced skill level it is not enough on many tracks. |
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06-12-2013, 09:48 AM | #59 | ||
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06-12-2013, 01:13 PM | #60 |
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Awesome keep us posted, take lots of pictures! At some point everyone's going to have to refresh the radiator, this could be a great upgrade even on non-fi cars.
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06-12-2013, 02:47 PM | #61 |
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Another issue with intercooler is
-it replaces the stock location of oil cooler and there is a gap below the radiator which is low pressure. This will make the radiator less efficient, due to lowering the pressure in front of the radiator slightly. -The oil cooler is put in front of the radiator, which pre-heats the air before going though the radiator. Also, unless the gap between the oil cooler and radiator is closed off at the seams, it won't have low pressure to draw the air through the oil cooler. It will be high pressure behind the oil cooler. Essentially making it less efficient. Having high pressure in the front and low pressure behind is what draws the air through because it wants to be in a low pressure area. I will have to look at mine when it is being installed next week. Not that this will solve all the issues, but it should be something to be considered. |
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06-13-2013, 11:46 PM | #62 |
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You're awesome. Can't wait to hear back!
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06-13-2013, 11:54 PM | #63 | |
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Re: disagreement, fair enough. I tend to agree with everything gmd2003 said above, so I doubt we will ever reach an agreement. For what it's worth, when my car was stock and I was getting heat issues I did have BMW look into it and they found nothing. All in all I'd rather be in your camp where everything is honky dory, than mine where there is a small yet ever present worry over engine temps on the track (even back when she was stock). So you win.
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2006 IBlue BMW Z4 MC - ESS VT2-525 Supercharged, JRZ RS1 suspension (500#F, 600#R) with Vorshlag plates, ST Trophy BBK with CL R6E pads, KKS gated exhaust, TMS sway bars, RE rear camber arms, VT engine mounts, Recaro Pole Position (driver), APR GT wing, Street: Volk G2s and Potenza, Track: Volk TE37SLs and BFG R1s.
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06-14-2013, 02:35 AM | #64 |
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^^^ I've rarely heard of overheating issues stock - even from the multitude of track-junkies on this site. You may have had a one-off. Not surprised the dealership didn't find anything tho
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06-14-2013, 07:17 AM | #65 |
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No winning involved here. I just was a little confused based on MY experiances. Remember, every car is a little different.
I have been using Redline 10W60 for the last two oil changes. I have also been adding a bottle of ZDDPlus to bring the anti-wear ZDDP levels (Zinc and Phosphorus) up. I just switched to Redline 15W50. (I hear the ‘BMW Engineers know better than you’ Nazi’s with their pitchforks and torches moving toward me now…..) At a Porsche event at VIR last month, James Clay was there all three days. He was being a personal driving coach for someone. I did not ask how much THAT cost…… We had a discussion about oil for the S54B32 engine. His comments specifically said that he and his tech boys at Bimmerworld are seeing better bearing wear on the S54 using a 50 weight oil. Like I said in a previous post, my on track temps are 5-10’ cooler with the 50 weight oil than with a 60 weight. My car has 38,000 miles on it. I received the Blackstone report last week. My ‘Lead’ level was at a staggering 43PPM and ‘Iron’ was at 17PPM. Remember, this report has been on 10W60. I am concerned but not ‘going out of my mind’ like some on this board would do. There are several things that could cause this spike in lead other than bearing wear. I just have to wait and see. Just be to sure and to have all my duck in a row, I have talked to Randy Forbes and my local guy on doing a bearing replacement. I plan doing another oil sample at 3000miles to see what the delta’s are. |
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06-14-2013, 10:48 AM | #66 | |
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http://members.rennlist.com/oil/Motor%20Oil%20101.htm |
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