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10-16-2012, 09:20 AM | #1 |
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ESS VT2 vs VF480 vs G-power
Thoughts? experiences?
I have astonishing reviews on all 3 kits. share please. I'm ready to drop cash for some go pedal fun. NO FLAMING Last edited by tikamak; 10-16-2012 at 09:21 AM.. Reason: Adding information |
10-16-2012, 01:00 PM | #2 |
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I'd await confirmation, but it seems that for a stage1 or 2 kit, the gpower kit on ironz4's car has a lot more power under the curve than my. Vt2-500 kit. I'd go for that once u get some real dyno sheets and verifed what kind of additional mods or boost he's running
I like the vt-500 kit but a year later, im craving more torque in gears 3-6. Meth injection made the top end stronger though. In the USA, ess doesnt offer upgrades for the vt2-500 kit. U have to go third party
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10-16-2012, 01:15 PM | #3 |
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Are you going to install it yourself?
When I was shopping for a system (1,5 year ago), Gpower only sold kits when you had them installed at their works in germany. (or perhaps outside europe at one of their partners). That was for a m54 sk1 system (so for an z4 3.0i), but the hardware is basically the same. Only their small sets (no heat exchangers, no larger injectors; not available for a z4m) were sold to private customers to install for themselves. That's why/when I chose ESS (apart form hardware specs etc), as I wanted to do it myself. But ironz4m has his kit lying on his diningtable (around the same time), so there are some inconsistencies in that matter and you might want to check up on that. Last edited by GuidoK; 10-16-2012 at 01:45 PM.. |
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10-16-2012, 02:58 PM | #4 |
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ive been pondering this exact same question the last few days. i like the overall torque of the vf kit (but the g power does offer more torque). i find two issues with the gpower kit personally that dissuade me from purchasing it completely
1.) the orange, i think it would be more difficult than usual to 'smog' the car even if i am in california with that orange 2.) domestic support (for america i mean) - at least vf is in southern california. |
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10-16-2012, 03:02 PM | #5 | |
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thats a vf480 with headers on 91 octane. i |
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10-16-2012, 04:43 PM | #6 | |
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IronZ4m said that his first dyno was on octane 95 (R.O.N.):
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But there are differences between dyno's (also at rwhp) so 1:1 comparisons without knowing which brand dynometer are a bit dodgy. Still I think that the G-power inlet manifold looks very nicely crafted and it looks that they spend a lot of efford in optimizing the airflow from both compressor to manifold and filter to compressor judged on the nicely crafted all cast aluminium piping. I like that car |
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10-16-2012, 09:44 PM | #7 | |
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I discounted the VF kit because of the Air/water intercooler. Air/water is only better than Air/Air if you use ice water. Once the water reaches ambient temperature it's downhill from there. I'm still not entirely sure what kind of intercooler the G-power uses since the description says "Air/water recuperator with front mount intercooler." As to the orange: I agree, the G-Power is hideous, not so much the color but the design of it. If I did get the G-Power I'd powdercoat the whole thing black, blower included. In the end for me it would be between ESS (proven, reliable) or G-Power (crazy torque at low psi).
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10-16-2012, 10:14 PM | #8 | |
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10-16-2012, 10:40 PM | #9 | |
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10-16-2012, 10:47 PM | #10 |
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Just waiting for it to ship. I read on another forum that the VF570 kit is ready as well; if so, I might jump on that.
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10-16-2012, 11:20 PM | #12 | |
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10-17-2012, 02:17 AM | #13 |
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The way I see it so far, G-power is the nicest option but using ASA is meh, too expensive and complicated. No upgrade path.
Would you guys be interested in a ROTREX C38-91 build ? I got an anonymous BMW super tuning gear head ready to make that happen but it will be expensive since he refused to use low quality stuff. it will be a high-end build with no cheap hardware. Please do contact me if you're interested, i need to feel how many people are interested in this. I just can't believe beedub is nowehere to be seen with the pulley-ed 8 PSI, ESS VT2-500 to chime in. |
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10-17-2012, 12:29 PM | #14 | |
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I feel that with the g-power you don't really need an upgrade path. After a certain point extra power becomes more show than go. Lower boost also means more engine longevity. Having said all that, I don't like that the ASA blower requires you to pipe it into your engine oil. So all three options have their pros and cons and one has to figure out what is one's usage and goals.
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10-17-2012, 01:36 PM | #15 | |
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It's a heat exchanger system, like an intercooler, only the transport medium is water. One advantage of such a system is that the inlet manifold (usually aluminium in these systems) gets a bit cooled as well because it houses the (cold/cooled) heat exchangers. A normal aluminium inlet manifold will get hot by heat transferred from the cylinder head. You can feel this very well on my ESS TS2 system, where the compressor is bolted on the inlet manifold (which is obviously bolted on the cylinder head). If you feel the temperatures of the components after driving, you feel that the engine/cylinderhead is hot, the inlet manifold is cold and the compressor is hot. So the air from the compressor is not only cooled by the heat exchangers themselves (situated in the manifold) but also by the walls of the manifolt itself (or rather: the walls of the manifold are not re-heating air coming from an intercooler ) |
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10-17-2012, 02:11 PM | #16 | |
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Like GuidoK said, they all have a radiator to recirculate and cool the water, just like an air to air system cools air by passing through a front mount. There's just less (basically no) boost loss with an air to water system because of the lack of piping. Air to water is simply better.
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10-17-2012, 04:17 PM | #17 | |||
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And in a proper set up you should have little to no loss in boost from the piping. If you are losing boost, something is wrong. And in our cars, no one has done more than 10psi (I think that's ESS 650 but don't quote me on that), so it's kind of a non-issue. From Bell Intercoolers (they make both air/air and liquid/air intercoolers): Quote:
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10-17-2012, 04:44 PM | #18 |
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beta: Use your google skills and look up how much more boost is lost through an air to air system versus and air to water system. An air to air system loses boost because of the volume of piping, not because there's a problem.
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10-17-2012, 05:39 PM | #19 |
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I'm pretty sure I'm getting my full 8psi of boost from my gauge, since its taking the reading from my intake manifold, IIRC
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10-17-2012, 05:54 PM | #20 |
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Does the air/air also lose some throttle response to the air/water due to piping? I'm super excited about the VF system, I'd just like to see some more user reports on how it stands up to track use from a heat perspective.
FWIW, Ford (GT, GT500), GM (ZR1, CTS-V), Audi (3.0T), and BMW (V8 turbo engines) are all using air/water systems. |
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10-17-2012, 05:58 PM | #21 | |
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10-17-2012, 06:50 PM | #22 | ||
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So google searches show that yes, there's a boost loss but usually it's made up by the reduction in temp. So roffle would gain 1psi, but after the water warms up, his charge temp would be higher, which means more heat soak. Quote:
"When space permits and adequately sized air-to-air intercooler to be fitted and given access to decent airflow, it will always prove superior. The only excuse for a liquid-based intercooler is when severe space restrictions exist… or where an iced coolant can be used."
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