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      03-26-2013, 07:33 PM   #23
baege
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You want more enjoyment? Slap the new ESS VT2-525 unit on, then go on a month-long holiday & invest a further $20k in your fav stock. You'll still be way under the PP of your new P-car. But you may miss the 'badge' by the sounds of it
First off, its Mcoupes like yours that make me lament leaving the shape beind, yours is a beautiful example.

When you break it down that way, I might as well be driving a yaris, if you want to get into a utilitarian analysis about sources of pleasure other than automotive. Driving expensive cars doesn't make sense, but cars are a passion for me. After driving the boxster S I just couldn't deny that all the fun I have in my coupe would be significantly exceeded by driving a cayman S. I''ll lose the exculsivity and intangible connection I have to the coupe but I stand to gain a set of soul stirring, grin inducing experiences. Whether its the right trade off is what I struggle with. I wish there was a car that did both for me (and if the vantage drove like the boxster did, it would be that car).

I could care less about badges, not sure what gave you that impression, perhaps I should have said "rarity" instead of exclusivity. As an example, I chose a 350Z over a S52 M coupe back in the day because I MISTAKENLY thought it would offer a better driving experience.
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      03-26-2013, 07:34 PM   #24
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What they did with the new Boxster S / Cayman is VERY impressive. We added a 2013 Boxter S to the family a few months ago and it is an absolute monster.

We've been doing a lot of side by side perception testing between it and my 2013 Z4 35is and they are both extremely fun in different ways. The Boxter (and by extension the Cayman) look and feel WAY fancier, but they aren't giving anything up in terms of performance. Probably the best performing cars you can get below $170k (haven't driven the 2013 911 s, so it "could" be a contender).

At the end of the day, the price dif is just so much. And Porsche doesn't really do anything in terms of deals. The options that you will convince yourself to get can crank up the price quick.

Almost every day, the boxster catches my I and it looks like a super car. There are practically none of them on the streets yet and certainly fewer Cayman.

Fun to $ ratio, I would get the 35is and upgrade the shit out of it.
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      03-26-2013, 08:25 PM   #25
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As for used 911's, while I do prefer their look over the cayman, my impression is that the driving experience can't rival the 981 cayman's and economically they actually cost more than a new cayman when you factor in depreciation and maintenance. They also don't hook me like the z4 coupe does, partly I think due to their lack of unique presence (see them all over the place). The cayman at least offers a little more exclusivity.
If you're looking for a driving EXPERIENCE, you will not find a better car than a classic 911. If you've ever driven a set-up, classic 911 with modifications and updated engine and tranny, you would never look at the Cayman again.


They're also much better economically than a new Cayman. As soon as you drive that new Cayman off the lot, take $20,000 off from what you just paid for it. Drive it for 2 or 3 years, and it's down to $25 or even $30,000 off.

You could even pick up someones project 911 off of ebay with an updated drive train for somewhere south of $35,000. Slap $15,000 on suspension, cosmetics and other misc. things, and like in the video, you will have a 2,100 lb, 275 hp car that is totally unique and custom to you and will beat the snot out of most modern cars, including the new Cayman in looks, cornering and straight.
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      03-26-2013, 08:52 PM   #26
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You cannot argue that the Cayman not a great car. For the extra $$$, you could easily mod your z4m to outperform the 981. I thought of doing same thing but instead decided to turn z4m into dedicated track car. While the handling dynamics of the p-car is arguably better, the s54 motor beats the flat 6. Also, you'd be a lot less upset putting a $30K car into a wall on the track than a 90K p-car.
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      03-26-2013, 08:52 PM   #27
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[quote=Gigglebox;13710459]What they did with the new Boxster S / Cayman is VERY impressive. We added a 2013 Boxter S to the family a few months ago and it is an absolute monster.

We've been doing a lot of side by side perception testing between it and my 2013 Z4 35is and they are both extremely fun in different ways. The Boxter (and by extension the Cayman) look and feel WAY fancier, but they aren't giving anything up in terms of performance. Probably the best performing cars you can get below $170k (haven't driven the 2013 911 s, so it "could" be a contender).

At the end of the day, the price dif is just so much. And Porsche doesn't really do anything in terms of deals. The options that you will convince yourself to get can crank up the price quick.

Almost every day, the boxster catches my I and it looks like a super car. There are practically none of them on the streets yet and certainly fewer Cayman.

Fun to $ ratio, I would get the 35is and upgrade the shit out of it.[/Q

Appreciate the real world perspective on the 981 vs. the E89. I am in Canada so the MSRP on the is is actually higher than the cayman S. I am contemplating getting a very bare bones S so it will actually be cheaper than the IS.
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      03-26-2013, 09:01 PM   #28
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If you're looking for a driving EXPERIENCE, you will not find a better car than a classic 911. If you've ever driven a set-up, classic 911 with modifications and updated engine and tranny, you would never look at the Cayman again.


They're also much better economically than a new Cayman. As soon as you drive that new Cayman off the lot, take $20,000 off from what you just paid for it. Drive it for 2 or 3 years, and it's down to $25 or even $30,000 off.

You could even pick up someones project 911 off of ebay with an updated drive train for somewhere south of $35,000. Slap $15,000 on suspension, cosmetics and other misc. things, and like in the video, you will have a 2,100 lb, 275 hp car that is totally unique and custom to you and will beat the snot out of most modern cars, including the new Cayman in looks, cornering and straight.
Thanks for the thoughts and the video, very interesting. There's a man who's found his car. I can't say I possess the dedication and detail orientation to get where he's got. I also lack his mechanical apititude and knowledge so reliability is a bigger factor for me than it is for him. I also live in Canada which means I have Canadian winters to deal with and I do drive occassionally in the winter. I suspect that wouldn't be very good for a classic 911. You're right about the economics though, no doubt a classic 911 would cost me less than a new cayman per year. But honestly I can't say its athestics really do it for me and I just don't have the desire, ability or dedication to do what's he done. I suppose that's how they sell new cars...
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      03-26-2013, 09:05 PM   #29
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You cannot argue that the Cayman not a great car. For the extra $$$, you could easily mod your z4m to outperform the 981. I thought of doing same thing but instead decided to turn z4m into dedicated track car. While the handling dynamics of the p-car is arguably better, the s54 motor beats the flat 6. Also, you'd be a lot less upset putting a $30K car into a wall on the track than a 90K p-car.
I should have mentionned I am actually not a take it the track kind of guy. I just enjoy sports car driving dynamics on the road, the grin inducing stuff. The 981 brought the giddyness more than any other car I've ever driven. So for me its not all about outright track performance.
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      03-26-2013, 09:10 PM   #30
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What they did with the new Boxster S / Cayman is VERY impressive. We added a 2013 Boxter S to the family a few months ago and it is an absolute monster.

We've been doing a lot of side by side perception testing between it and my 2013 Z4 35is and they are both extremely fun in different ways. The Boxter (and by extension the Cayman) look and feel WAY fancier, but they aren't giving anything up in terms of performance. Probably the best performing cars you can get below $170k (haven't driven the 2013 911 s, so it "could" be a contender).

At the end of the day, the price dif is just so much. And Porsche doesn't really do anything in terms of deals. The options that you will convince yourself to get can crank up the price quick.

Almost every day, the boxster catches my I and it looks like a super car. There are practically none of them on the streets yet and certainly fewer Cayman.

Fun to $ ratio, I would get the 35is and upgrade the shit out of it.
Are you serious?!
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      03-26-2013, 09:52 PM   #31
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Are you serious?!
I'd agree. The Cayman is a fantastic car, but let's not get carried away here.

It's probably one of the best, or at least top 3, NEW sub-911 cars that you can get for under $90,000. But it is a SPORTS car, not a SUPER car.

Really, just get a 997.2 C2 and add some aftermarket mods. It will still be better, more unique and probably more cost effective than the Cayman.
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      03-26-2013, 10:38 PM   #32
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I'd agree. The Cayman is a fantastic car, but let's not get carried away here.

It's probably one of the best, or at least top 3, NEW sub-911 cars that you can get for under $90,000. But it is a SPORTS car, not a SUPER car.

Really, just get a 997.2 C2 and add some aftermarket mods. It will still be better, more unique and probably more cost effective than the Cayman.
The super car comment was geared towards it's look. There was always something that I never liked about the boxster, but the 981 "looks" like something different. It looks incredible.

I confused myself . The other comment was based on several non-applicable variables stemming from my last "which car" game. At the time we were only looking at those that "could" sensibly serve as a daily driver and were cars that we liked. The DD aspect killed the GT3 and the body style of the boxster was more favorable than the 911 cab. At some point, between everything involved, the >$170 assessment was made...and stuck in my head. I forgot the backstory to the number.

All that aside, the new Cayman & Boxster have taken a new focal point at Porsche and it shows. Visuals and performance have little to do with their 2012 cousins.
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      03-26-2013, 11:12 PM   #33
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When you break it down that way, I might as well be driving a yaris
No, I doubt a Yaris with a blower would give you a comparable ride, both in performance, road feel etc. I'm comparing apples to apples (really apples to better apples, as the blown Z4M would trounce the new Cayman).

Regardless, it sounds like you've made up your mind. GLWT
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      03-27-2013, 09:24 AM   #34
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The super car comment was geared towards it's look. There was always something that I never liked about the boxster, but the 981 "looks" like something different. It looks incredible.

I confused myself . The other comment was based on several non-applicable variables stemming from my last "which car" game. At the time we were only looking at those that "could" sensibly serve as a daily driver and were cars that we liked. The DD aspect killed the GT3 and the body style of the boxster was more favorable than the 911 cab. At some point, between everything involved, the >$170 assessment was made...and stuck in my head. I forgot the backstory to the number.

All that aside, the new Cayman & Boxster have taken a new focal point at Porsche and it shows. Visuals and performance have little to do with their 2012 cousins.
Or an R8 GT. drool
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      03-27-2013, 10:09 AM   #35
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Or an R8 GT. drool
Yeah, that ranked pretty high on my list... nobody agreed
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      03-27-2013, 10:31 AM   #36
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Yeah, that ranked pretty high on my list... nobody agreed
screw that noise. One of the most affordable yet dependable super cars ever!
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      03-27-2013, 09:53 PM   #37
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For me, a car has to have heart. Its that kind of feeling you only get with your special lady. Indescribable. I think, for you, that might be the sort of quandary you are dealing with. The cayman S seems to hit all of the obvious points but is missing that one crucial aspect. That heart. At least thats what it seems like you are saying.

I don't think that heart is necessarily all that attainable anymore with newer cars. Maybe that's why the biggest car romances seem to be with the very old 911s? Ive never driven a cayman, so i cant comment, but it seems to me like that might be the best option for what you are after. It will be a compromise though.

Somewhere, there is a video of Chris Harris saying that the e46 m3 is the last best sports car (or something along those lines). I think he would have said that the z4m was if he had a reminder, but that's a different story.

The point of all of this text is this, I dont think you are going to find a car that marks all of the boxes, so at the end of the day its about the compromises you are willing to make. If i was in your situation i would probably be looking at it the same way. I say buy the Cayman or wait just a bit longer to find something that might be a little closer to what the all around package looks like to you.
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      03-28-2013, 11:25 AM   #38
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Hmmmm

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I am in Canada so the MSRP on the is is actually higher than the cayman S. I am contemplating getting a very bare bones S so it will actually be cheaper than the IS.
Why? You have a PM.
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      03-30-2013, 12:04 AM   #39
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I got the P-car bug late last year. Sold my Z4 Coupe and got a 911. The 911 is amazing - the realization of a boyhood dream in many ways, but I will always miss the Z4. I wish I could have kept both. That said, there's nothing like a Porsche and your choice of the new Cayman is shaping up to be something quite spectacular.

Personally I would wait a year or two and get one used. I was thinking about a 981 Boxster, but every time I configured it the way that I wanted, I was north of $80k. Porsche cars devalue like a mofo during the first few years. I picked my used 2009 911, with warranty out to September 2015 for over $30k less than sticker. I get to drive it for a couple of years with peace of mind and then if I am done with it I'll be able to sell it for $5-10k less than I bought it. That's a hell of a lot less than the new car depreciation would have been.

Good luck with your choice though. Life is good when you are in a position to get one of these cars. I am sure you have done your homework, but if you haven't seen these reviews make sure you watch them asap. The new Cayman look phenomenal.








And here's a pic of my new girl just to finish up.

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      03-30-2013, 01:28 PM   #40
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Just within the last few months a number of friends/acquaintances have purchased Caymans or Boxsters.

The first was a woman in our club that had an E92 M3 DCT she bought brand new about 2-3 years ago, then sold it and bought a used E90 M3 6MT because she liked the utility of a four-door sedan and missed the manual transmission. A few months ago she bought a used Cayman (the E90 M3 is still for sale).

Someone else in our club traded in their BMW on a brand new Cayman a few weeks ago. Since then he and his wife have both attended a Porsche HPDE and appear to be fully immersed in the Porsche world based on their Facebook posts.

A close friend that had a Z3 Roadster and then a Z3 M Roadster traded it in on a 2010 Cayman S about a month ago. He's always wanted a Porsche and didn't like the looks of the Z4 M Roadster/Coupe. He also wanted something newer and the Cayman is a CPO. He's in his 40's and this is the first car he's owned with a roof and with a non-manual transmission. He still has the Alfa Romeo roadster he bought in high school. He's looking forward to tracking the Cayman.

Finally, a club member with a 335D and a 2001 Boxster S is leaving next week for Euro Delivery on a 2014 Boxster S to replace the older Boxster.

Unfortunately, I have not been fortunate enough to drive any of them yet.

It almost seems like those who appreciate high-performance German cars eventually end up with a Porsche. I would still like to own one in my lifetime but my next new car will be a 2016 M4, although I'm not planning on selling the Z4 M Roadster.
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      03-30-2013, 05:02 PM   #41
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For me, a car has to have heart. Its that kind of feeling you only get with your special lady. Indescribable. I think, for you, that might be the sort of quandary you are dealing with. The cayman S seems to hit all of the obvious points but is missing that one crucial aspect. That heart. At least thats what it seems like you are saying.

I don't think that heart is necessarily all that attainable anymore with newer cars. Maybe that's why the biggest car romances seem to be with the very old 911s? Ive never driven a cayman, so i cant comment, but it seems to me like that might be the best option for what you are after. It will be a compromise though.

Somewhere, there is a video of Chris Harris saying that the e46 m3 is the last best sports car (or something along those lines). I think he would have said that the z4m was if he had a reminder, but that's a different story.

The point of all of this text is this, I dont think you are going to find a car that marks all of the boxes, so at the end of the day its about the compromises you are willing to make. If i was in your situation i would probably be looking at it the same way. I say buy the Cayman or wait just a bit longer to find something that might be a little closer to what the all around package looks like to you.
You pretty much nailed it. The Z4 coupe has an intangible "je ne sais quoi" that the cayman lacks for me. But otherwise it's an incredible car. I would wait for something that marks all the boxes but I don't see anything on the horizon that promises that possiblity. The next BMW Z4 will be a 2016 model, and I am anxious to see what they do there, but in the meantime the cayman seems to be the closest I can come to marking all the boxes.
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      03-30-2013, 05:23 PM   #42
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I got the P-car bug late last year. Sold my Z4 Coupe and got a 911. The 911 is amazing - the realization of a boyhood dream in many ways, but I will always miss the Z4. I wish I could have kept both. That said, there's nothing like a Porsche and your choice of the new Cayman is shaping up to be something quite spectacular.

Personally I would wait a year or two and get one used. I was thinking about a 981 Boxster, but every time I configured it the way that I wanted, I was north of $80k. Porsche cars devalue like a mofo during the first few years. I picked my used 2009 911, with warranty out to September 2015 for over $30k less than sticker. I get to drive it for a couple of years with peace of mind and then if I am done with it I'll be able to sell it for $5-10k less than I bought it. That's a hell of a lot less than the new car depreciation would have been.

Good luck with your choice though. Life is good when you are in a position to get one of these cars. I am sure you have done your homework, but if you haven't seen these reviews make sure you watch them asap. The new Cayman look phenomenal.








And here's a pic of my new girl just to finish up.

I also went thought the 981S vs. used 911 debate. The problem for me is that CPO 2010 and up 911's go for upwards of $80000 here in the great white north. I am contemplating a bare bones cayman S that will be less pricely than that and for that I get a brand new car with warranty for 4 years instead of CPO warranty for maybe 3 years at best. I also like the option of buying an extended warrany for the cayman at 3 years and keeping it another 3 years if I feel so inclined. I don't have that option with a CPO 911.

As for depreciation, I am not sure the cayman is going to depreciate any faster than a CPO 911. The 911's tend to lose their value significantly when they get off warranty.

Your 911 is beautiful. A 911 has always been a childhood dream of mine as well. Maybe one day.

How would compare the 911 to the 3.0SI? Driving my SI always brings a grin to my face and so I was amazed at how much better the 981 was at doing that.
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      03-31-2013, 01:13 AM   #43
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I also went thought the 981S vs. used 911 debate. The problem for me is that CPO 2010 and up 911's go for upwards of $80000 here in the great white north. I am contemplating a bare bones cayman S that will be less pricely than that and for that I get a brand new car with warranty for 4 years instead of CPO warranty for maybe 3 years at best. I also like the option of buying an extended warrany for the cayman at 3 years and keeping it another 3 years if I feel so inclined. I don't have that option with a CPO 911.

As for depreciation, I am not sure the cayman is going to depreciate any faster than a CPO 911. The 911's tend to lose their value significantly when they get off warranty.

Your 911 is beautiful. A 911 has always been a childhood dream of mine as well. Maybe one day.

How would compare the 911 to the 3.0SI? Driving my SI always brings a grin to my face and so I was amazed at how much better the 981 was at doing that.
I went from a 2007 3.0si to the 911 and there's a big difference between to the two. Both deliver plenty of grins, but of a different sort.

Z4

Very tosssable - I could throw it into a corner and it always made me smile because it was easy to get the rear tires loose without the sense that I was going to spin the car. Some people complain about the electric steering, but I am not one of them. It always talked to me and I always knew what the front tires were doing. The Z4 was always such a hoot to drive quickly - I never felt like my point to point progress was going to set lap records, but it was always with a huge smile.

What became less satisfying over time was that the 3.0si engine seemed to run out of breath at the top of the rev range and how tiring the car was for long journeys. My wife refused to go anywhere over an hour in it, so I never got to use it as much as I wanted.

911

It's only been a few weeks and I am still exploring the 911 but here are my impressions thus far. Firstly there's a big jump from 255hp to 345hp. The car pulls really hard no matter what gear or what speed and that's seductive. It's easy to put yourself into license losing territory in the blink of an eye. Unlike some cars (e.g. 335i) the engine does not overwhelm the chassis. The car is all about grip - massive gobs of mechanical grip. It is just so composed through the twisties and I haven't been able to exceed it's limits responsibly on public roads.

It's a much bigger car though and you can really feel the weight when you carry speed into a turn. Moreover the weight is at all the back of the car and I am less confident on turn-in - I just don't get as much info through the steering wheel into a corner unless I am under hard braking. It can even feel floaty at times. The payoff is on the corner exit where the grip is simply outstanding and I can just fire the car out of the corner like a rocket. Here the joy is in the cars unfettered composure - it's just so capable and feels like it has so much more to give.

Shifter - this is sublime. It snicks so precisely than rowing through the gears is something that I will do just for fun. If you thought that the Z4 shifter was sweet (and I did) the Porsche is on a whole new level. I know that PDK is quicker on the 0-60 stopwatch, but I will keep my 3-pedals thank you very much.
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      04-12-2013, 10:25 AM   #44
baege
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Drives: 2014 Porsche Cayman S
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gripster View Post
I went from a 2007 3.0si to the 911 and there's a big difference between to the two. Both deliver plenty of grins, but of a different sort.

Z4

Very tosssable - I could throw it into a corner and it always made me smile because it was easy to get the rear tires loose without the sense that I was going to spin the car. Some people complain about the electric steering, but I am not one of them. It always talked to me and I always knew what the front tires were doing. The Z4 was always such a hoot to drive quickly - I never felt like my point to point progress was going to set lap records, but it was always with a huge smile.

What became less satisfying over time was that the 3.0si engine seemed to run out of breath at the top of the rev range and how tiring the car was for long journeys. My wife refused to go anywhere over an hour in it, so I never got to use it as much as I wanted.

911

It's only been a few weeks and I am still exploring the 911 but here are my impressions thus far. Firstly there's a big jump from 255hp to 345hp. The car pulls really hard no matter what gear or what speed and that's seductive. It's easy to put yourself into license losing territory in the blink of an eye. Unlike some cars (e.g. 335i) the engine does not overwhelm the chassis. The car is all about grip - massive gobs of mechanical grip. It is just so composed through the twisties and I haven't been able to exceed it's limits responsibly on public roads.

It's a much bigger car though and you can really feel the weight when you carry speed into a turn. Moreover the weight is at all the back of the car and I am less confident on turn-in - I just don't get as much info through the steering wheel into a corner unless I am under hard braking. It can even feel floaty at times. The payoff is on the corner exit where the grip is simply outstanding and I can just fire the car out of the corner like a rocket. Here the joy is in the cars unfettered composure - it's just so capable and feels like it has so much more to give.

Shifter - this is sublime. It snicks so precisely than rowing through the gears is something that I will do just for fun. If you thought that the Z4 shifter was sweet (and I did) the Porsche is on a whole new level. I know that PDK is quicker on the 0-60 stopwatch, but I will keep my 3-pedals thank you very much.
Cheers on the review

Update: 2014 Cayman S Ordered, delivery late June or early July. I am gonna miss my Z4C big time, my fave car of all time to date. I don't think the Cayman will completely fill the void for the reasons I mention at the start of this thread, but I have no doubt it will be a lot a fun. Wish I could afford to have both.
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