ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-13-2012, 02:25 PM   #1
yousefnjr
Captain
8

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA


Posts: 600
iTrader: (0)

Z4M Sound Generator Retrofit

I recently upgraded from my 2004 z4 3.0 to a 2006 z4m, and it has been a major improvement in almost every way. The only part of the 3.0 that I prefer is the noise; after removing one of the foam pieces, the sound generator on that thing lets out a piercing howl that the z4m just can't match. For those that haven't had the pleasure of hearing it in person, the noise is pure induction glory; it's completely different than throwing on a CAI or exhaust pieces. I also very much enjoy the fact that the noise it created was for the driver only, and that the tone didn't change.

So I'm trying to figure out a way to retrofit a sound generator onto my z4m. I've searched and found little, the closest it seems that somebody has come has been ZStig, but in his thread he mentioned that he didn't fully attach the sound gen to his intake.

I have a few questions:
- Which sound generator should I use? I'm familliar with the unit on the 3.0, but I haven't seen the one from the 3.0si in person. The 3.0 unit looks like I could grind off the mounting bracket (won't fit on the S54), and it would be small enough that I could probably find somewhere to tuck it in. If anybody is familiar with both and has an idea of which would be better, please chime in.

- I want to fit the receiving end of the sound gen into the plastic intake elbow (#5 on the diagram http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...11&fg=40&hl=24 ) just before the intake manifold. I noticed that this is downstream of the MAF. If there aren't any leaks, will I get any lights on my dash? No air moves through the sound gen, AFAIK there's a paper diaphragm inside.

- What would be the best way to fit it into the elbow? The OEM setup includes an inlet on the intake boot that the receiving end of the sound gen couples to via a hose clamp. On the S54 I don't have a fitting to clamp the sound gen onto, what would be a good way to make the attachment? I was thinking of just cutting a hole, sticking in some hose from the sound gen, and applying some sort of flexible sealant around the connection (something like this maybe http://permatex.carshopinc.com/produ...72f447cb74c5dd ). Anybody have a better idea? This sounds messy and I bet it'll leak eventually if not right away. Is there a good way to create or add some kind of fitting to the elbow?

ECS has decent prices on the parts, and a good looking kit for the 3.0 sound gen:

http://www.ecstuning.com/ES35461/

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-Z4-3.0s...rator/ES35465/

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-Z4-3.0s...tor/ES2202633/


Any ideas are appreciated. Sorry if this is unclear, I'm writing from my phone. Ill be trying to do this very soon
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2012, 05:10 PM   #2
Walkurie
Lieutenant
United_States
4

 
Walkurie's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 M Roadster / 99 Jaguar XK8
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Surf City, CA


Posts: 452
iTrader: (2)

If you really want a change in sound for an M, you are better off going with an alternate intake, such as the aFe system or the Gruppe M system. And then there are many choices in exhaust systems, as well.
__________________
Vibra Technics engine mounts / Rogue trans mounts / Stoptech brakes / original owner
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2012, 08:55 PM   #3
yousefnjr
Captain
8

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA


Posts: 600
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tbalutis View Post
If you really want a change in sound for an M, you are better off going with an alternate intake, such as the aFe system or the Gruppe M system. And then there are many choices in exhaust systems, as well.
With an intake or especially exhaust the sound is too loud for me from either the front or back of the car. The sound generator puts the good noises right in your face!

I just ordered the kit from ecs, ill update as this goes along
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2012, 09:22 PM   #4
mousitch
Dark Sider
United_States
22

 
mousitch's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 Space Gray Z4MC
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Missouri


Posts: 1,722
iTrader: (11)

Garage List
Send a message via Yahoo to mousitch
With the Gruppe M it is right in your face. trust me.
__________________


2008 Space Grey M Coupe-RPI Scoop-Gruppe M CAI-Eisenmann Race Cans-RE X-pipe-ECU Remap-H&R Sport springs-Zeck CDV-Stock Gloss black powder coated wheels-LED Tekarbon Angel Eyes Project-Michelin Super Sports-Hardwired Escort 9500ix-BMW CCA Member-ST Louis Chapter
Appreciate 0
      12-13-2012, 09:29 PM   #5
beta
Lieutenant Colonel
28

 
Drives: 2006 M Roadster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CA


Posts: 1,655
iTrader: (2)

You should also look into euro headers. Definitely more engine noise in the cabin after getting them installed.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2012, 01:57 AM   #6
psygnosis
Major
11

 
psygnosis's Avatar
 
Drives: '04 Z4 3.0i Sport
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: WA


Posts: 1,019
iTrader: (0)

Definitely keep us updated if you get it worked out. My M54 3.0i with the foam removed and an aFe intake screams when I put my foot down, it's awesome

Yet it's still quiet when cruising under 2k rpm.
__________________
Straightaways are for fast cars, Corners are for fast drivers.
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2012, 10:07 AM   #7
Walkurie
Lieutenant
United_States
4

 
Walkurie's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 M Roadster / 99 Jaguar XK8
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Surf City, CA


Posts: 452
iTrader: (2)

Think the sound generator for the M has been discussed in this forum in the past. And the sound generator for the 3.0 won't work on the M. Don't think there is a sound generator available for an M. Be careful when you open it up to preserve as much as you can in case you need to return it to ECS. ECS may accept an undamaged return and allow a trade in for something else.
__________________
Vibra Technics engine mounts / Rogue trans mounts / Stoptech brakes / original owner
Appreciate 0
      12-14-2012, 10:17 AM   #8
zubydafa
tosser
Isle of Man
9

 
Drives: '07 Z4MC
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Allentown, PA


Posts: 988
iTrader: (0)

can a sound generator bark? because AFE and GruppeM can
__________________
'07 MCoupe
lots of mods
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 05:52 PM   #9
yousefnjr
Captain
8

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA


Posts: 600
iTrader: (0)

After over a month of waiting, my sound generator finally arrived from Germany

Special thanks to ECS who said they had it in stock but really didn't. I ordered it and they took a week to let me know that, some real pro's they have.

Interesting to me regarding the generator, it's more fancy than I guessed. It looks like the diaphragm is vinyl, I heard it was paper. There's also a spring mechanism inside, it doesn't travel very far but it seems like this moves around on the inside more than I thought.

I took some pictures that ill upload later tonight hopefully, along with some other stuff. Can't wait to get this installed
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 08:06 PM   #10
Jumbosock
Captain
10

 
Jumbosock's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 M coupe
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego


Posts: 801
iTrader: (0)

Make sure to take a pic of the part that needs to mate with the intake.
__________________

CSL headers*Euro cats*Arqray exhaust*DKF hangers*Evolve Tune*Genuine CSL rims*10mm Macht Schnell front spacers*modified Hamann bumper*Tekarbon 2X2 CF spoiler*Turner CF grills*AS SSK*KWV3*OEM Strut bar*Rogue RSM*Polyurethane anti-roll bar bushings*Deka ETX30L battery*Nav Video module*front & rear cameras*Ipod module*stubby antenna*R-Dash LED license lights*LED Ziza interior lights
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 09:00 PM   #11
v3.2mc
Not a New Member
United_States
11

 
v3.2mc's Avatar
 
Drives: with both hands and both feet
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: midwest


Posts: 823
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
Quote:
Make sure to take a pic of the part that needs to mate with the intake.
+1
__________________
#1498E86 | Sepang Bronze | Dark Sepang Leather | Carbon Leather Trim
Appreciate 0
      01-22-2013, 10:57 PM   #12
ZStig
Major General
101

 
Drives: VT2-525 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL


Posts: 7,228
iTrader: (3)

Yeah, you should have asked us before paying money for it. I have 2 version in the garage collecting dust, couldn't get either one to work. I'm pretty sure that just routing a tube on each end to the engine bay will NOT work, I've tried that. I believe it only works when there is strong air pressure from the intake pushing on the drum, so you need to drill into your airbox. Easier than drilling into a custom supercharger intake, which I decided not to even try
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 02:13 AM   #13
psygnosis
Major
11

 
psygnosis's Avatar
 
Drives: '04 Z4 3.0i Sport
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: WA


Posts: 1,019
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zubydafa View Post
can a sound generator bark? because AFE and GruppeM can
AFE + sound generator = more bark in the cabin!
__________________
Straightaways are for fast cars, Corners are for fast drivers.
Appreciate 0
      01-24-2013, 02:42 PM   #14
yousefnjr
Captain
8

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA


Posts: 600
iTrader: (0)

Apologies for updates taking so long, goddamn flu season weather hasn't been cooperative either

I haven't been able to find the plumbing I need at any of the local hardware stores, just ordered some silicone tubing online that should work pretty well. I also picked up a piece that ill be using as a fitting to install into the intake elbow. It's a 1.5" ID PVC elbow that's made for garbage disposals, it looks pretty close to the intake elbow in terms of thickness. Once the other pieces come in ill have the balls to finally drill into this thing.
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 02:34 AM   #15
Jumbosock
Captain
10

 
Jumbosock's Avatar
 
Drives: 2007 M coupe
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego


Posts: 801
iTrader: (0)

Take pics so we can provide input before u start hacking at ur car!!
__________________

CSL headers*Euro cats*Arqray exhaust*DKF hangers*Evolve Tune*Genuine CSL rims*10mm Macht Schnell front spacers*modified Hamann bumper*Tekarbon 2X2 CF spoiler*Turner CF grills*AS SSK*KWV3*OEM Strut bar*Rogue RSM*Polyurethane anti-roll bar bushings*Deka ETX30L battery*Nav Video module*front & rear cameras*Ipod module*stubby antenna*R-Dash LED license lights*LED Ziza interior lights

Last edited by Jumbosock; 01-26-2013 at 02:52 AM.
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 03:16 AM   #16
GuidoK
Some say...
Netherlands
5

 
GuidoK's Avatar
 
Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2+
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Netherlands


Posts: 404
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZStig View Post
I believe it only works when there is strong air pressure from the intake pushing on the drum, so you need to drill into your airbox. Easier than drilling into a custom supercharger intake, which I decided not to even try
Yes it needs the vibrant air from the intake, so you do need to drill in the manifold of the engine.
Mounting it on a supercharged manifold would be a bad idea, because it's pressurised, and that would pop the membrane in the sound generator for sure and consequently and seriously mess up the afr and performance.
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 07:19 PM   #17
yousefnjr
Captain
8

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA


Posts: 600
iTrader: (0)

I think I finally have what I need to get this done. Here's some pics (sorry for the funky sizes):

This is what plugs the firewall on the M:


Sound generator for the z4 3.0i M54... pretty clunky:


You can see the diaphragm and spring on the inside:


This intake elbow is where I want to drill and plug into:


I cut off the support brackets and filed down some extra plastic to make this much smaller:



The input end of the sound generator measures 1.75" OD, I ordered this silicone reducer coupling to bring it down to 1.5", which is the size of the fitting I have:


This is the best fitting I could find, 1.5" OD, pretty thin plastic. It's made for a sink disposal, but I think it'll still work:


This is the whole thing assembled, minus a hose clamp:


Bottom side of the intake elbow I'll be cutting into:


This is the inside of the intake elbow, I'm not sure what that fitting is used for. I think maybe EGR?


This is approximately where I need to stick this thing, on the bottom side near the existing fitting:



Any suggestions before I cut into this thing? Per realoem, that plastic intake elbow is something like $50, so worst case scenario isn't too bad. I'm gonna try to secure the fitting to the elbow with some blue RTV gasket maker, the package says its sensor safe and pressure/temperature resistant. I might also use some super loctite made for plastics for some added strength.
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 08:54 PM   #18
v3.2mc
Not a New Member
United_States
11

 
v3.2mc's Avatar
 
Drives: with both hands and both feet
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: midwest


Posts: 823
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
aside from idle issues this may cause, my only concern is flexibility. the engine moves around quite a bit in comparison to the firewall. this thing has to be flexible enough to move and expand, but the joints have to be stout enough not to fall apart during operation.

i loved the sound generator in my 3.0si and believe the ///m's can benefit from a system like this.

subscribed.
__________________
#1498E86 | Sepang Bronze | Dark Sepang Leather | Carbon Leather Trim
Appreciate 0
      01-26-2013, 09:55 PM   #19
yousefnjr
Captain
8

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA


Posts: 600
iTrader: (0)

I'm worried about idle issues too I'm hoping that as long as it doesn't leak it won't make a difference

Flexibility should be ok, the technical data sheet for the blue RTV says it'll stretch 3.75 times its length before breaking. There's also a bit of give in most of the sound gen plumbing, especially the rearmost piece that connects to the firewall.
Appreciate 0
      01-27-2013, 12:07 AM   #20
ZStig
Major General
101

 
Drives: VT2-525 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL


Posts: 7,228
iTrader: (3)

I have an extra intake elbow I can sell cheap if you screw this up, don't worry
__________________
Appreciate 0
      01-27-2013, 03:46 PM   #21
yousefnjr
Captain
8

 
Drives: 2006 Z4MR
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Bay Area, CA


Posts: 600
iTrader: (0)

I think I might be ok, I cut into it last night and installed the whole thing this morning. No idles issues, no lights on the dash, it's all good so far sorry for crappy phone pictures

I don't have a drill at home and decided to cut the hole with a blade instead. The plastic cuts fairly easily, just went around a little bit at a time until it was pretty close to what I needed. I filed down the edges and made sure there weren't any stray cuts or cracks. Everything fit pretty well:



From the inside:



Before I put on the RTV, I tried to use some Loctite that's good for plastics for some added strength. This didn't work so well, and it had a bad reaction with the intake elbow. I felt the plastic get really warm, and quickly wiped off what I could. I don't think any permanent damage was done, but it was a little scary. Lesson learned.

These are with the blue RTV. I decided I'd rather use too much than too little, and I applied it on both sides of the opening. I made sure to get it in every little spot I could. I smoothed it out a little bit with a business card before I left it to cure:







I let it cure overnight , and by morning the RTV was ilke rubber. I squeezed and twisted everything around and it was surprisingly strong. I wiped everything down one last time and went to install it. Everything fit pretty well, and it has a lot of support on it's own. I thought I was going to have to tie it down somewhere but it's ok on its own.





I fired the car up and everything is good. Idle is proper, no check engine light, and thankfully no leaks that I can hear. I haven't noticed any change in engine response or performance.

What I have noticed is a familiar growl when I put my foot down to the floor. The noises from the intake are much deeper than they were before, and there are especially good throaty sounds from 1500-3500rpm with lots of throttle. If I drive the car lightly I can't tell any difference. I can only hear a difference when I bury the pedal, which is nice.

The changes in sound at the top end of the rev range are less noticeable. I can still hear the deep induction noise, but it doesn't sound like it screams at a higher pitch. I remember my old 3.0i had an absolutely piercing wail around 6-7k, unfortunately I'm not getting that same sensation with this setup. I don't know if there are any other differences within the firewall, or the if the added plumbing changes anything, but the sound is not piercing in the same way I would describe the other one. I currently have the rearmost piece of foam within the sound generator removed, I might remove the other one and see what that sounds like later.

I went for a long drive through the hills this morning and I haven't had any issues so far. I hit some big potholes and tried to toss the car around a bit, everything is still tight. After the long drive with a hot engine, the sound generator and plumbing were only warm to the touch.

Overall I'm happy to have done it, and I'll definitely be keeping it on. Now I just feel like I have to go for an intake and headers to get the top end noises I dream about
Appreciate 0
      01-27-2013, 04:42 PM   #22
dubsesd
Colonel
40

 
dubsesd's Avatar
 
Drives: Z4M coupe / X5 35d LCI /F150
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Ottawa


Posts: 2,681
iTrader: (1)

A gruppe m or afe intake will be more of what your looking for IMO. I remember when I installed my afe, and couldn't believe how much it growled and screamed for just an intake.
__________________
2006 ///M Coupe TiAg / IR -- H&R coilovers/RPI exhaust/ZHP knob/19" Morr MS52 ONE hand brushed & polished/Stoptech 355mm 6/4 BBK/Turner strut bar/polished diagonal braces/m tower caps/tekarbon 2x2 coil cover/Michelin PSS/gloss black kidneys/painted gloss black roof/mstache 2 front lip/AFE dry intake/RPI forced induction/colormatch corners/black chrome //M badges/rear diffuser/aeroskirts/carbon sideskirt extentions/rogue mounts/DKF adjustable hangers/22%tint/euromode lighting/LED interior & plate lighting
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:25 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST