VF570 installed - Page 3

johanness · 12-11-2012, 09:23 PM

Great #'s! Congrats

Rated M Roadster · 12-11-2012, 09:53 PM

Thanks guys!

Graph with boost:

Z4M VF570 DynoBoost by M detaR, on Flickr

Video of run:

http://youtu.be/V4UZL4scGzU

GuidoK · 12-11-2012, 09:59 PM

Nice run. Nicely documented with video etc.

dorifto88 · 12-11-2012, 11:50 PM

dumb question, besides the 570, what engine modifications have you done?

Rated M Roadster · 12-11-2012, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dorifto88

dumb question, besides the 570, what engine modifications have you done?

Nothing to the engine. I do have AA headers though, which helps.

dorifto88 · 12-12-2012, 12:06 AM

thank you sir for the reply =)

pokeybritches · 12-12-2012, 04:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

Nothing to the engine. I do have AA headers though, which helps.

Good numbers. Did you have the AA headers in the before dyno?

Geauxkart · 12-12-2012, 09:07 AM

That lean condition scares me...
But the dyno is absolutely awesome.
Let us know if you get the tune straight, I am going FI but waiting on all the charts to decide the system, this wins so far, but need to make sure you get things straight first!

Thanks for being the guinea pig, and I hope that it all works out.

Beedub · 12-12-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geauxkart

That lean condition scares me...
But the dyno is absolutely awesome.
Let us know if you get the tune straight, I am going FI but waiting on all the charts to decide the system, this wins so far, but need to make sure you get things straight first!

Thanks for being the guinea pig, and I hope that it all works out.

where are you seeing AFRs??? i cant see them??

OP out of interest did you log AFRs???

OP great numbers, you've documented it much better then all of the rest of us, i will be back at the dyno shortly for my revisions...... i promise to document the same, i take video with my d3200. Great great numbers!!!!

Geauxkart · 12-12-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rated M Roadster

Shut it down early cause it was running a little lean (VF and I will have to work on that). Very happy with the result though.

I read closely. Go back a page.

Beedub · 12-12-2012, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geauxkart

I read closely. Go back a page.

you did indeed ;-)

what were the AFRs saying at the shut down point rated??

Rated M Roadster · 12-12-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

Good numbers. Did you have the AA headers in the before dyno?

I put the headers on with the SC.

Here's a dyno with AFR (notice change at 6750 rpm):

Z4M VF570 DynoAFR by M detaR, on Flickr

I have a BavarianTechnic scan tool (another toy to play with

) in the mail to determine if there were any discrepancies in the tail pipe reading since I do still have section 2 cats in place. I will be doing recordings of different aspects along with lambda (then converted to AFR) readings from both banks. Should be an easy fix assuming it wasn't simply a false reading by the dyno.

This is what I'll be doing with the BavarianTechnic tool: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=723927

Beedub · 12-12-2012, 03:10 PM

arhhh i see that is a lean spot for sure...... lets hope its inaccurate dyno reading ;-)

Geauxkart · 12-13-2012, 11:40 AM

I keep thinking about these graphs, thanks again for taking the time to put them up. Those are awesome numbers.
Keep us posted on your experience, there are few reviews from other Z4M guys out there, and I really like this kit.

mgwatson48 · 12-13-2012, 11:47 PM

Awesome!!!

GuidoK · 12-14-2012, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedub

arhhh i see that is a lean spot for sure...... lets hope its inaccurate dyno reading ;-)

You mean the lean spot above 7300rpm? (that the afr curve starts to rise at 6700rpm)

I think that's intentional, seeing that both torque and power behave accordingly.
I think they adjust the mapping there to get an even torque graph and continous power buildup (lean mixture=more power)
I don't know when the lean mixture becomes too lean to cause damage (especially @ high revs), but it's still well below stoichiometric of course.

ZStig · 12-14-2012, 10:06 AM

Daaamn them be some strong numbers! Let me know how the clutch holds up with hard launches

pokeybritches · 12-14-2012, 11:50 AM

What's a dyno look like when your fuel pump can't keep up with the demand?

ESS could have been right about the fuel system needing to be upgraded. It may not be tuning.

GuidoK · 12-14-2012, 02:20 PM

If it wouldn't be tuning you'd get an engine light with some obd2 code like p0171 or so.

But what they can have done is adjust the mixture (in the tuning), so the pumppressure doesn't get too low.
If you calculate: 6750rpm the afr is about 11.8, so thats about 572x parts gas (6750/11.8)
7800rpm (the max in this run) the afr is about 13.6, so thats (also) about 573x parts gas.
If the afr hadn't changed, the parts gas used (per minute) would be higher of course.

It's a big coincidence that in the high revs the engine (with higher afr) uses exactly as much fuel than in the highest rev before the afr start to rise.
So it's not because the fuel pump stops suppling fuel (no obd code), but maybe it is the result of careful tuning not to overstress the pump (resulting in fuel pressure too low) and letting the afr rise.
But a lean mixture gives more power (that could be the other reason). It's just bad for your engine if it gets too lean (valve temperature too high so they burn).
Still, then why have a high afr in the mid revs.
If the afr didn't rise above 6800rpm, it sure wouldn't produce so much power I think. Maybe up to 50HP less.

Beedub · 12-14-2012, 02:26 PM

ok maybe im reading this wrong but doesnt the AFR go superlean after 6.7ishk rpm???
This gradual leaning Looks like a fueling supply issue BUt.... maybe the sniffer backed out the exhaust??? if those are indeed accurate.... the motor wont survive that for long.
i see 11.4 at redline....

^^^ dyno problem?????? it must be???

tikamak · 12-14-2012, 02:37 PM

^_ What bee said. Run a dyno again to make sure that this not the case

GuidoK · 12-14-2012, 02:38 PM

stoichiometric is 14.7
Everyting below that is theoretically rich. Until 2600 its about 14, so what is 'lean'

But it almost can't be a dyno problem, because otherwhise the torque and power curve would gradually fall off, and instead it rises faster than with the rich mixture.
If it would be a dyno problem both the afr sensor/calculation (I don't know; do they pick that up directly from the first lambda probe?) and the power sensor/calculation would be at fault. That would be a coincidence...

12-11-2012, 09:23 PM	#45
johanness Hans X2 Drives: 2008 Z4MC Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Seattle, Vancouver Posts: 1,512 iTrader: (2) Garage List 2008 BMW Z4M COUPE [0.00] 2012 BMW X1 xDrive 28i [0.00]	Great #'s! Congrats __________________ \|Euro Headers\|SS X-Pipe\|REMUS\|UUC\|Zeck CDV\|AFE Intake\|H&R Springs\|RPI Scoop\|ZHP\|AC Schnitzer Side Skirts\|ESS DirectFlash\|APEX\|RE RaceBrace\| the very last TiAg Coupe

12-11-2012, 09:53 PM	#46
Rated M Roadster Lieutenant Drives: E85 M Roadster VF570 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: ABQ Posts: 479 iTrader: (3)	Thanks guys! Graph with boost: Z4M VF570 DynoBoost by M detaR, on Flickr Video of run: http://youtu.be/V4UZL4scGzU __________________ Z4MR ll VF570 472whp 332wtq ll AA headers H&R coilovers ll ARC-8 w/ Hankook RS3 Stromung ll Aero skirts ll Passport SRX Last edited by Rated M Roadster; 12-11-2012 at 10:30 PM.

12-12-2012, 03:10 PM	#57
Beedub Brigadier General Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK Posts: 3,058 iTrader: (0)	arhhh i see that is a lean spot for sure...... lets hope its inaccurate dyno reading ;-) __________________ Pristine Bi-colour Ti /Bsm...z4m roadster Ess vt2-500....Perfection on wheels.

12-13-2012, 11:47 PM	#59
mgwatson48 First Lieutenant Drives: 2008 E86 M Join Date: May 2011 Location: Canada Posts: 385 iTrader: (1)	Awesome!!! __________________ 2008 Interlagos Blue M Coupe CDV delete : ZHP Knob : RE Trans Mounts : RE Clutch Stop : Stubby Antenna : Michelin PSS 235/265 : Magnaflow Axle-Back

12-14-2012, 10:06 AM	#61
ZStig Major General Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL Posts: 6,419 iTrader: (3)	Daaamn them be some strong numbers! Let me know how the clutch holds up with hard launches __________________

12-11-2012, 09:59 PM	#47
GuidoK Zweistein Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Netherlands Posts: 146 iTrader: (0)	Nice run. Nicely documented with video etc.

12-11-2012, 11:50 PM	#48
dorifto88 Captain Drives: 88 Nissan Pathfinder Join Date: May 2010 Location: cowtown Posts: 872 iTrader: (1)	dumb question, besides the 570, what engine modifications have you done?

12-12-2012, 12:06 AM	#50
dorifto88 Captain Drives: 88 Nissan Pathfinder Join Date: May 2010 Location: cowtown Posts: 872 iTrader: (1)	thank you sir for the reply =)

12-12-2012, 09:07 AM	#52
Geauxkart Second Lieutenant Drives: 2007 Z4 M Coupe Sepang Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 219 iTrader: (2)	That lean condition scares me... But the dyno is absolutely awesome. Let us know if you get the tune straight, I am going FI but waiting on all the charts to decide the system, this wins so far, but need to make sure you get things straight first! Thanks for being the guinea pig, and I hope that it all works out.

12-13-2012, 11:40 AM	#58
Geauxkart Second Lieutenant Drives: 2007 Z4 M Coupe Sepang Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 219 iTrader: (2)	I keep thinking about these graphs, thanks again for taking the time to put them up. Those are awesome numbers. Keep us posted on your experience, there are few reviews from other Z4M guys out there, and I really like this kit.

12-14-2012, 11:50 AM	#62
pokeybritches Major Drives: G-Power Z4M, VF Z4 3.0i, ZJ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Gulf Coast, USA Posts: 1,371 iTrader: (10) Garage List 2003 BMW Z4 3.0i [4.33] 2006 BMW Z4M [0.00]	What's a dyno look like when your fuel pump can't keep up with the demand? ESS could have been right about the fuel system needing to be upgraded. It may not be tuning. __________________ G-Power Z4M (April Install) and VF Engineering Z4 3.0i - too many mods to list

12-14-2012, 02:20 PM	#63
GuidoK Zweistein Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Netherlands Posts: 146 iTrader: (0)	If it wouldn't be tuning you'd get an engine light with some obd2 code like p0171 or so. But what they can have done is adjust the mixture (in the tuning), so the pumppressure doesn't get too low. If you calculate: 6750rpm the afr is about 11.8, so thats about 572x parts gas (6750/11.8) 7800rpm (the max in this run) the afr is about 13.6, so thats (also) about 573x parts gas. If the afr hadn't changed, the parts gas used (per minute) would be higher of course. It's a big coincidence that in the high revs the engine (with higher afr) uses exactly as much fuel than in the highest rev before the afr start to rise. So it's not because the fuel pump stops suppling fuel (no obd code), but maybe it is the result of careful tuning not to overstress the pump (resulting in fuel pressure too low) and letting the afr rise. But a lean mixture gives more power (that could be the other reason). It's just bad for your engine if it gets too lean (valve temperature too high so they burn). Still, then why have a high afr in the mid revs. If the afr didn't rise above 6800rpm, it sure wouldn't produce so much power I think. Maybe up to 50HP less. Last edited by GuidoK; 12-14-2012 at 02:25 PM.

12-14-2012, 02:26 PM	#64
Beedub Brigadier General Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: UK Posts: 3,058 iTrader: (0)	ok maybe im reading this wrong but doesnt the AFR go superlean after 6.7ishk rpm??? This gradual leaning Looks like a fueling supply issue BUt.... maybe the sniffer backed out the exhaust??? if those are indeed accurate.... the motor wont survive that for long. i see 11.4 at redline.... ^^^ dyno problem?????? it must be??? __________________ Pristine Bi-colour Ti /Bsm...z4m roadster Ess vt2-500....Perfection on wheels.

12-14-2012, 02:37 PM	#65
tikamak Lieutenant Drives: 2006 Z4M Roadster TiAG/black Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Beirut Posts: 568 iTrader: (0)	^_ What bee said. Run a dyno again to make sure that this not the case

12-14-2012, 02:38 PM	#66
GuidoK Zweistein Drives: Z4 3.0i ESS TS2 Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Netherlands Posts: 146 iTrader: (0)	stoichiometric is 14.7 Everyting below that is theoretically rich. Until 2600 its about 14, so what is 'lean' But it almost can't be a dyno problem, because otherwhise the torque and power curve would gradually fall off, and instead it rises faster than with the rich mixture. If it would be a dyno problem both the afr sensor/calculation (I don't know; do they pick that up directly from the first lambda probe?) and the power sensor/calculation would be at fault. That would be a coincidence...

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search