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      09-19-2012, 12:32 PM   #1
nobrakese28
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Anyone running a VF480 on their Z4M?

Guys/Gals,

I have read a lot about the ESS kit for the Z4M, but I haven't found any threads on install and feedback. The recent sale that VAC Motorsport had has really got me looking into FI. I always wanted to have a ridiculously fast car.

I was thinking of going FI in the next few months (November/December = bonus time at work plus I sold one of my motorcycles).

I really like the VF kit, it is just so clean looking. I am not looking to get into the thermodynamics and fluid mechanics (although I am M.E), I just would like to here from anyone running the VF kit.

I talked to VF recently and they said the VF420/VF570 kits will be here in a few months for the Z4M.

I thought about starting with the VF420 and moving to the VF480 if the power was not sufficient.

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      09-19-2012, 02:55 PM   #2
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Don't think anyone has one installed yet, but equally as curious.
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      09-19-2012, 02:58 PM   #3
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No, but I'm running the ESS kit and am gonna research to see if their water cooled intake manifold can be retro-fitted to this ESS kit. It seems superior
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      09-19-2012, 03:20 PM   #4
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Roffle,

How do you like your ESS? Did you have to upgrade the brakes/suspension for the added power?
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      09-19-2012, 03:31 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle View Post
No, but I'm running the ESS kit and am gonna research to see if their water cooled intake manifold can be retro-fitted to this ESS kit. It seems superior
theirs definitely pluses to that setup, theirs also negatives too.... in the end their is no right/wrong way... just different.... why you'd want to go through the expense of doing that however... i genuinely wonder??? To say its superior is just completely incorrect...

lots of cars use that setup but then.... lots dont....

i have always preferred Air to air.... for numerous reasons...

i wont lie however the the VF hardware is imo as good as it gets... their stuff is pure quality.....

if i was to do it ll again id try the g-power setup i think... purely for that Tq rich blower (but sadly no upgrade path).... or jump straight to vt-550 (cost sucks tho).... the Tq from the vt-500 to vt550 is more than the jump from stock to vt500.... The 550 kit is where the blower is finally getting into its efficiency range.. that giant unit needs boost, id guess it would be truly wonderful @ 12psi.

Excuse me OP for the slightly off topic talk.... Re the VF setup... not many z4m takers... but plenty of e46 m3 owners.... do a search on google....
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      09-19-2012, 03:39 PM   #6
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No problem! Good valuable input is what I am looking for. The ESS kit is sweet, but the VF kit just looks OEM, I love the manifold.
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      09-19-2012, 03:52 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobrakese28 View Post
No problem! Good valuable input is what I am looking for. The ESS kit is sweet, but the VF kit just looks OEM, I love the manifold.
the intake is lovely.... by nature they are restrictive due to the core inside.. admittedly at the bost figures we use, this is no issue at all.

for me.... simplicity is key.... a Big fuck off intercooler , with big fuck off pipe work... WORKs...

if its good enough for the 1500hp GTRs.... its good enough for me.... ;-)

also i ALways intended to go vt3 build motor.

as long as VF have theirs tunes sorted (do a search) this is yet another great option imo.... if g-power offered difference power stages.... theirs kit would imo be one of the best options out their.
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      09-19-2012, 04:16 PM   #8
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by the way, I did HOURS of research of air/air intercooling vs air/water intercooling vs even adding a peltier cooler to an air/water cooled system(too inefficient)

I've been convinced to stay with air-air, combined with water/meth injection


Quote:
Air-to-water. If we use water as the cooling medium instead of outside air, we can see a big improvement for several reasons: Water can absorb more energy with a lower temperature rise. This improves our DTlm, makes it bigger, which makes Q go up and outlet temps go down. A well designed water cooled exchanger also has a much bigger U, which also helps Q go up. And since both DTlm and U went up, you can make the area A smaller which makes it easier to fit the intercooler in the engine compartment. Of course, there are some practical drawbacks. The need for a water circulation system is one. A big one is cooling the water down after it is heated (which means another radiator). This leads to another problem: You heat the water, and cool it down with outside air like the Syclone/Typhoon. You can't get it as cool as the outside air, but maybe you can get it within 20 degrees of it. Now you are cooling the turbo air with water that is 20 hotter than the outside air, and you can only get within 15 degrees of that temperature so coming out of the intercooler you have turbo air that is 35 degrees hotter than outside! (turbo air is 15 deg over water temp which is 20 deg over outside temp). You could have easily done that with an air to air intercooler! But... if you put ice water in your holding tank and circulate that... Then maybe the air temp coming out of the intercooler is 15 deg above that or 45 to 50 deg. Hang on! But after the water warms up, you're back to the hot air again. So, great for racing, not as good for the street."

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html
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      09-19-2012, 04:19 PM   #9
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I'm also putting together a comprehensive spreadsheet of available s54 supercharger upgrades to see at which power level you need to do an engine build, and if its worth it for the extra horsepower. I'm finding a lot of sample data on ESS, JAWS, VF, and VAC builds/kits
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      09-19-2012, 04:39 PM   #10
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I'm looking at going with the G-Power kit in a couple months. Nothing at all against VF... I have mostly good things to say about their non-M kit on my 3.0i. I'm looking to try out the ASA blower, and I'm getting a GREAT deal from PSI.

Both the VF kit and G-Power run similar boost levels with air/water cooling, so expect the power to be close (despite VF claiming 30 more hp than G-Power).

One thing I will say: if you haven't installed a kit before, don't have your first attempt be with a previously developed kit that's been adapted for your low production vehicle... especially if you are the first to install it, and even more importantly make sure there are specific instructions for your exact vehicle. I did a lot of rework/deciphering when installing my VF kit, because the instructions were for a Z3 with one of their older blowers which tapped into the engine oil for lubrication. This is common for supercharger kits for our cars. Are there any kits that have Z4-specific instructions (ESS, G-Power, VF, RMS, etc.)? I don't know, but the kit that did would be the one I would buy.

IIRC, the VF420 uses the MAF sensor, whereas the VF480 runs with a MAF-less tune. MAF-less tunes are typically more touchy. ESS requires OEM headers; aftermarket headers cause problems. I don't know if it's the same for VF.
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      09-19-2012, 04:47 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
I'm looking at going with the G-Power kit in a couple months. Nothing at all against VF... I have mostly good things to say about their non-M kit on my 3.0i. I'm looking to try out the ASA blower, and I'm getting a GREAT deal from PSI.

Both the VF kit and G-Power run similar boost levels with air/water cooling, so expect the power to be close (despite VF claiming 30 more hp than G-Power).

One thing I will say: if you haven't installed a kit before, don't have your first attempt be with a previously developed kit that's been adapted for your low production vehicle... especially if you are the first to install it, and even more importantly make sure there are specific instructions for your exact vehicle. I did a lot of rework/deciphering when installing my VF kit, because the instructions were for a Z3 with one of their older blowers which tapped into the engine oil for lubrication. This is common for supercharger kits for our cars. Are there any kits that have Z4-specific instructions (ESS, G-Power, VF, RMS, etc.)? I don't know, but the kit that did would be the one I would buy.

IIRC, the VF420 uses the MAF sensor, whereas the VF480 runs with a MAF-less tune. MAF-less tunes are typically more touchy. ESS requires OEM headers; aftermarket headers cause problems. I don't know if it's the same for VF.
I think asa blower makes considerably more torque running under 10psi, the V3si blower's only advantage is the headroom for more boost
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      09-19-2012, 05:08 PM   #12
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Torque is what I'm after anyway. Not that I doubt you, but do you have any data to prove this? I've seen it written a few places, but I haven't been able to confirm.

Technik Tuning used an ASA blower back when they were in business. I'd like to see a Vortech vs ASA chart of two cars of the same model running identical boost.
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      09-19-2012, 05:09 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle
by the way, I did HOURS of research of air/air intercooling vs air/water intercooling vs even adding a peltier cooler to an air/water cooled system(too inefficient)

I've been convinced to stay with air-air, combined with water/meth injection


Quote:
Air-to-water. If we use water as the cooling medium instead of outside air, we can see a big improvement for several reasons: Water can absorb more energy with a lower temperature rise. This improves our DTlm, makes it bigger, which makes Q go up and outlet temps go down. A well designed water cooled exchanger also has a much bigger U, which also helps Q go up. And since both DTlm and U went up, you can make the area A smaller which makes it easier to fit the intercooler in the engine compartment. Of course, there are some practical drawbacks. The need for a water circulation system is one. A big one is cooling the water down after it is heated (which means another radiator). This leads to another problem: You heat the water, and cool it down with outside air like the Syclone/Typhoon. You can't get it as cool as the outside air, but maybe you can get it within 20 degrees of it. Now you are cooling the turbo air with water that is 20 hotter than the outside air, and you can only get within 15 degrees of that temperature so coming out of the intercooler you have turbo air that is 35 degrees hotter than outside! (turbo air is 15 deg over water temp which is 20 deg over outside temp). You could have easily done that with an air to air intercooler! But... if you put ice water in your holding tank and circulate that... Then maybe the air temp coming out of the intercooler is 15 deg above that or 45 to 50 deg. Hang on! But after the water warms up, you're back to the hot air again. So, great for racing, not as good for the street."

http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/turbo/intercooler.html
I'm really pleased you took the time to do that research.... Awesome stuff.... Your air/air with meth is as chilly as you'll ever need ;-)

Also those Asa blowers make awesome tq but not much room.... The v3 is MUCH bigger and sadly is well out of its efficiency range on the lower kits ..... It NEEDS 8+ lbs... 9-10lbs That unit is just getting in its stride and really makes nice hp and Asa level of tq... 13psi on our blower makes 530+ whp... As proven by the jaws setup.

Really nice thread btw.
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      09-19-2012, 05:13 PM   #14
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Pokey gpower and ess have z4 specific instructions..... I'm guessing they all do at this price point.
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      09-19-2012, 05:14 PM   #15
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Sorry, I don't have torque figures on the ASA kit.

500-525rwhp is the safe thresh-hold for our stock internals by the way....after that you need upgrades and/or lower compression. Lower compression means u need more boost to make over 525rwhp
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      09-19-2012, 05:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pokeybritches View Post
One thing I will say: if you haven't installed a kit before, don't have your first attempt be with a previously developed kit that's been adapted for your low production vehicle... especially if you are the first to install it
You may not be the first, but it seems that it's like pulling teeth to get any real-world data on either the VF or G-Power units. You may not be first, but you certainly will still be in the top 3. So far the only proper company providing plenty of details on their system (which would put my mind more at ease) is ESS.

G-Power unit looks great tho. Excited for you

Last edited by johanness; 09-19-2012 at 05:32 PM.
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      09-19-2012, 05:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johanness View Post
G-Power unit looks great tho. Excited for you
Thanks! Nothing like selling an engagement ring and buying a supercharger.
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      09-19-2012, 06:32 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Thanks! Nothing like selling an engagement ring and buying a supercharger.
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      09-20-2012, 10:36 AM   #19
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It sounds like Rated M Roadster bought the VF480:

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showpost...3&postcount=41
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      09-20-2012, 10:43 AM   #20
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Yeah I saw that when reading through the post.
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      09-20-2012, 03:24 PM   #21
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Looks like there is kit made by G-Power. Liquid cooled. Not thrilled about the manifold color and the fact that there is giant G-Power cast into the manifold. Also a 1000 dollars over the VF480 kit.
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      09-20-2012, 03:30 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanFromTucson View Post
It sounds like Rated M Roadster bought the VF480:

http://www.zpost.com/forums/showpost...3&postcount=41
I'll make a new thread when I get to the install and everything.
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