Z4 a cult or collectible car?

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by esqu1re

I wouldn't buy one as an investment, but I don't see the m coupe's price going down anymore (assuming mileage doesn't increase).

I think the value will stay on pace with any reasonable mileage. Not as an investment to MAKE money, but most of us will be able to get back what we put in, and a little extra.

[-c-]

Then again it could work the other way around, the world record holder Volvo has what like 2 or 3 million miles on it. I bet their would be someone to buy that car for a hefty sum to have a world record car....

So maybe if you drive and put 3 million miles on your M I wonder if BMW would buy it and showcase it like Chevy did for that old Chevy truck that hit 1 million miles on the original block and such.

Think of the history that would come with a million mile M.....

[GammaZeta]

You also have to remember that for demand to go up, it has to reach a certain price point.

Most people can't afford $25,000 - $30,000 on a two seater that they can only drive a few months (for us New Englanders) out of the year.

In a statistic I made up for this post, most people are looking in the $10,000 - $20,000 range for that "fun" car for weekend driving. Once they hit that price point, demand will go back up and so will the prices.

[yakswak]

I don't think it's a cult car...there's not the following from a few rabid fans the original M Coupe enjoys. It does help that the car has a polarizing design. NO idea on whether it will become a collectible at some point...

But I agree with the other posters saying that this car will likely hit some sort of bottom price and stay there for a while...even in higher mileage examples. I'm guessing we'll reach that point in the next five years at around the low $20k's except for the very low mileage (<30k mi) and the super high mileage (>100k mi) cars that will be priced accordingly.

[tbalutis]

Originally Posted by -c-

Then again it could work the other way around, the world record holder Volvo has what like 2 or 3 million miles on it. I bet their would be someone to buy that car for a hefty sum to have a world record car....

So maybe if you drive and put 3 million miles on your M I wonder if BMW would buy it and showcase it like Chevy did for that old Chevy truck that hit 1 million miles on the original block and such.

Think of the history that would come with a million mile M.....

Makes a case for the 3,000 mile oil changes, lol.

Let's see, I'm coming up on 50K after having the car almost 6 years. At this rate it will take me another 114 years to reach this. Or, I could increase my driving. The computer indicates I am averaging 33 mph. That's only another 28,788 hours. If I dedicated 3 hours per day, it would only take 9,596 days, or 26 years. If I did this 7 days per week. But then I would need to change the oil every 4 weeks.

I think I'll just enjoy the car.

[-c-]

Originally Posted by tbalutis

Makes a case for the 3,000 mile oil changes, lol.

Let's see, I'm coming up on 50K after having the car almost 6 years. At this rate it will take me another 114 years to reach this. Or, I could increase my driving. The computer indicates I am averaging 33 mph. That's only another 28,788 hours. If I dedicated 3 hours per day, it would only take 9,596 days, or 26 years. If I did this 7 days per week. But then I would need to change the oil every 4 weeks.

I think I'll just enjoy the car.

then again i did manage to put 200K miles on my 2002 cooper S in 4 years, lol

when i look back at the gas i ate up during those 4 years i cry! shot the 4 year warranty before the first year ended, finished the first year with 52K miles

[esqu1re]

Originally Posted by tbalutis

Makes a case for the 3,000 mile oil changes, lol.

Let's see, I'm coming up on 50K after having the car almost 6 years. At this rate it will take me another 114 years to reach this. Or, I could increase my driving. The computer indicates I am averaging 33 mph. That's only another 28,788 hours. If I dedicated 3 hours per day, it would only take 9,596 days, or 26 years. If I did this 7 days per week. But then I would need to change the oil every 4 weeks.

I think I'll just enjoy the car.

Haha. Nice calculation. You forget that in 26 years, you might not be able to afford the gas to continue on with this endeavor!

[Rustycat]

[quote=esqu1re;11796375]Haha. Nice calculation. You forget that in 26 years, you might not be able to afford the gas to continue on with this endeavor![/QUOTE

Pretty easy to see the average econo grocery getter going for $50k in ten years. Hard to imagine you can't recoup in initial cost in the M. OTOH, it will probably cost $20 for a Micky D value meal, gggg.

[RichardTS]

Originally Posted by mousitch

In 20 years there may be no fuel for these cars to run on

There will be fuel in 20 years. We just might not be able to afford it.

[RichardTS]

Originally Posted by epbrown

I can't think of a single car that, like art, became more popular post-humously; could one of you cite an example?

As for the Slstice coupe, maybe not you but pretty much everyone else has them sitting in a garage, dreaming of the day millions of people will want a car no one wanted when new. I think they'll be hugely disappointed, but they're out there.

Jag E-type. In 1995 almost 30 years after the real E-type (inline 6 with 3 carbs - not the bloody ugly V-12) ceased production the Metropolitan Art Museum in NYC chose it to display as an example of 20th century art. Go check the price nowadays.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by epbrown

I can't think of a single car that, like art, became more popular post-humously; could one of you cite an example?

Originally Posted by RichardTS

Jag E-type. In 1995 almost 30 years after the real E-type (inline 6 with 3 carbs - not the bloody ugly V-12) ceased production the Metropolitan Art Museum in NYC chose it to display as an example of 20th century art. Go check the price nowadays.

You can't seriously be suggesting the E-Type, a 1960s icon, is more popular now than when it launched to almost unanimous accolades? MOMA may have acknowledged its significance 30 years later, but it has never been in question.

Thinking on it, I'd say the Ferrari 250-series is a good candidate for post-humous greatness. These languished as "just an old Ferrari" for decades after production ended, trading for used car prices despite hilariously few being built (an E-type owner wouldn't have traded you for one at that model's nadir). No one was raving about the design, their performance, or anything thru the 60s, 70s, and most of the 80s. Interest rose when Enzo died, and has spiraled upward ever since.

[gtMc]

i sorta feel like there are a lot debates going on at once here, and ATLEAST 5 categories of cars:

1) older rarer cars that were popular at first, and remained popular:
(E-type)

2) older rarer cars that were not very popular at first, and DID become popular:
(Ferrari 250)

3) longstanding mainstream cars that were popular at first, and remain popular:
(mustang)
(corvette)
(porsche 911s)

4) mainstream cars that were not very popular, but some have hopes of becoming popular:
(ANY Pontiac 2 seater - lol)

the inflationary impact on all of this
the speculation element in all of this
the 'iconic' debate (i think its anything that was and still is popular)
posthumous vs not

and where does the Z fit into all of this? a 5th category:

5 ) cult cars w a degree of collectibility irrelevant to its current owner:
BMW 2002's
Z4M
1Mcoupe?
Nissan GTR?

[Nate2046]

Nothing unique about Enzo era Ferraris. They depreciated for a time, became 'relatively' cheap (still several times what contemporary new cars cost) and then appreciated as the collector car market took off in the late 80's. This happened while Enzo was alive btw so I don't think their value has much to do with his death. Jags, Corvettes, Cobras, Aston-Martins, Lamborghinis, Bugattis, Delahayes, etc.... they've all followed roughly the same pattern. I don't think theres anything terribly unique or special about it, people will always be interested in older cars and the Z4 like all cars gets older each year. The only cars that I can think of that never really depreciated were the Ford GT and the Enzo, both modern examples.

[dekaliber]

I wonder. Does Leno have a Z4M?

[bigbacon]

Originally Posted by Nate2046

Nothing unique about Enzo era Ferraris. They depreciated for a time, became 'relatively' cheap (still several times what contemporary new cars cost) and then appreciated as the collector car market took off in the late 80's. This happened while Enzo was alive btw so I don't think their value has much to do with his death. Jags, Corvettes, Cobras, Aston-Martins, Lamborghinis, Bugattis, Delahayes, etc.... they've all followed roughly the same pattern. I don't think theres anything terribly unique or special about it, people will always be interested in older cars and the Z4 like all cars gets older each year. The only cars that I can think of that never really depreciated were the Ford GT and the Enzo, both modern examples.

I can only hope my 87 MR2 ends up being worth $$$ at some point... I plan to never get rid of that car.

[gtMc]

should I have also kept my 1985 Mercury Capri 5.0 Hatchback? that was a rare bird. come to think of it, it kinda sorta resembled the rear body curves of the e86.... of course the '85 capri still isnt a collectors item 27 year later...

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by dekaliber

I wonder. Does Leno have a Z4M?

Doubt it, as he's not a big fan of German cars. His first Porsche was a Carrera GT, and he had little interest in the brand before or since. I've seen no interest from him in post-ww2 BMWs. He does like older Mercedes-Benzes and some of the current AMG cars.

[mousitch]

Not sure his chin could clear the steering wheel. All kidding aside, the man is one hell of a car guy.

[jimmybond]

Originally Posted by Nate2046

Of course they'll be collectible, they're an interesting sports car. Sure production helps determine price but it isn't a make or break to determine whether something becomes 'collectible'. How many '64-69 Mustangs were built? Over a million? Still collectible.

I agree...production really has nothing to do with if something becomes a collector's piece. Survivability has a lot to do with it. How many will be around in 20 years? How many good ones? Ms will surely be collectible, and I think the standards will be too. They're a unique car...that in itself will make it collectible, because so many cars nowadays are just not unique.

[eHelmholtz]

Originally Posted by jimmybond

...They're a unique car...that in itself will make it collectible, because so many cars nowadays are just not unique.

The rear is particularly unique.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by eHelmholtz

The rear is particularly unique.

No such thing as "particularly unique". Look up the meaning of unique and you'll understand why. It gets abused all the time.

[GammaZeta]

Originally Posted by epbrown

Doubt it, as he's not a big fan of German cars. His first Porsche was a Carrera GT, and he had little interest in the brand before or since. I've seen no interest from him in post-ww2 BMWs. He does like older Mercedes-Benzes and some of the current AMG cars.

Leno also doesn't like Ferrari's, and prefers Lambo's.