alignment specs

[zubydafa]

:nubpost:

so i'm getting a really notchy 1st - 2nd and sometimes get some grinding. i'm going in tomorrow for some fluid changes, oil included. they have an alignment rack, and a buddy made me realize the other day i committed a major sin by not getting an alignment after puttin the RGR's on last month.

so the meat of this thread is - what alignment specs should i go for? i'm very unknowledgeable about this. i'll be tracking a few times, and attending a few autocrosses. on the same token, i daily drive the car to work. with these circumstances, is it unreasonable to expect to have one alignment that can satisfy them all?

thhhhhhank you.

[aestheticstorm]

I doubt the fluid change will help the 1-2 grind, as most of us have it. It's just a gearbox quirk.

My personal preference is to stick with stock alignment and camber to preserve your tires if this is your DD. More dedicated track or weekender cars do well with more aggressive camber.

[beta]

If you search on here there's tons of threads discussing alignment settings. Lots of good info so give them a read.

What I'm running: stock settings with two differences.

1. Front toe on the aggressive side (within spec, but at the max of the spec). Not too worried about wear of the front tires, as the rears will tend to wear out first anyway.

2. Camber -2.5 in the front. You won't be able to get nearly this much without lowering the car or getting camber plates. So if you have stock suspension just pull the pins and get as much as you can, there's very little camber adjustment possible on stock suspension.

[zubydafa]

thank you good sirs

[seank]

A mild track set-up/ dd would have 1/32 toe-in, in the rear. Toe-out in front 1/32. 2.5 degrees camber in front and 1.5 degrees in the rear.

Toe out in front will help turn in. Toe in in rear will make the car more stable in turns when on the gas.
The general rule is 1 degree less camber in rear than front.

Hope this helps.

[MFGJR]

Originally Posted by beta

2. Camber -2.5 in the front. You won't be able to get nearly this much without lowering the car or getting camber plates. So if you have stock suspension just pull the pins and get as much as you can, there's very little camber adjustment possible on stock suspension.

You can get that much (or more) front camber for $25: http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36-fro...-kit-p610.aspx

[zubydafa]

thanks for the tips guys. i decided against the alignment at the dealer today because they want 169 which is a lot more than my indy would charge me. i'm getting my oil changed because (a) i'm due for it and (b) i'm driving to maryland tomorrow to get my headers in and a tune.

i figured i might as well get an alignment but that can hold off. my SA was trying to sell me on doing a diff fluid change and all that but i think it can wait another 8k miles for the inspection 2?

i do have a notchy 1st - 2nd which has gotten worse over the past few months and still get a grind in a 1st-2nd WOT if everything isn't perfect. maybe i should look into a tranny fluid and diff change?

thanks again guys

[beta]

Originally Posted by MFGJR

You can get that much (or more) front camber for $25: http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36-fro...-kit-p610.aspx

I totally forgot about either the washers or shim kits, good call.

As for the grind 1-2, I don't think anyone has figured out a solution. I think even the people with upgraded transmission mounts and SSKs can grind if they change gears too fast. I'd love to hear from someone that has cured the 1-2 grind entirely (besides doing a heartbeat pause between shifts).

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by zubydafa

thanks for the tips guys. i decided against the alignment at the dealer today because they want 169 which is a lot more than my indy would charge me. i'm getting my oil changed because (a) i'm due for it and (b) i'm driving to maryland tomorrow to get my headers in and a tune.

i figured i might as well get an alignment but that can hold off. my SA was trying to sell me on doing a diff fluid change and all that but i think it can wait another 8k miles for the inspection 2?

i do have a notchy 1st - 2nd which has gotten worse over the past few months and still get a grind in a 1st-2nd WOT if everything isn't perfect. maybe i should look into a tranny fluid and diff change?

thanks again guys

See this post for stock alignment settings. There's a link there to a whole lot of other discussions on various setting for various uses.

I haven't notice any unexpected tire wear with running -1.7 in the front with zero toe, and pretty close to low end of stock settings rear, on the min side of recommended toe-in. (Pretty much what Sean recommended.) Those settings, especially the zero toe, make the car a bit more nervous and subject to tramlining, so be aware of that, but they're going to help with your autoX and other use and keep the wear more even.

1st/2nd grind, nothing really can be done there except to pull down and hard to the left plus the heartbeat (pause) approach. Fluid change on the transmission might help with the notchiness a bit.

[zubydafa]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

See this post for stock alignment settings. There's a link there to a whole lot of other discussions on various setting for various uses.

I haven't notice any unexpected tire wear with running -1.7 in the front with zero toe, and pretty close to low end of stock settings rear, on the min side of recommended toe-in. (Pretty much what Sean recommended.) Those settings, especially the zero toe, make the car a bit more nervous and subject to tramlining, so be aware of that, but they're going to help with your autoX and other use and keep the wear more even.

1st/2nd grind, nothing really can be done there except to pull down and hard to the left plus the heartbeat (pause) approach. Fluid change on the transmission might help with the notchiness a bit.

awesome...thanks for the alignment info.

the 1st-2nd gear grind is just so annoying. i lined up with my buddy in his 996 turbo the other day to have a little fun. just a quick shot to 60 or so. first pulled very hard and i was with him but i lost him at the shift. GRINNNNNNNNND. a part of me died.

i didn't have this issue in my e46M3. maybe it is time to do a diff fluid/tranny fluid change to see if it will help.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by zubydafa

awesome...thanks for the alignment info.

the 1st-2nd gear grind is just so annoying. i lined up with my buddy in his 996 turbo the other day to have a little fun. just a quick shot to 60 or so. first pulled very hard and i was with him but i lost him at the shift. GRINNNNNNNNND. a part of me died.

i didn't have this issue in my e46M3. maybe it is time to do a diff fluid/tranny fluid change to see if it will help.

NP on alignment.

I'm not sure what the absolute cure is for that grind. Running flat-out in first and shifting high up in the revs seems to be a where it's at its most prevalent. This was pretty much beaten to death a couple years back and further (search on "grind", limit to titles only for grind specific threads). The heartbeat (pause) and "hard to the left" and/or shift earlier approaches seem to be the only way to ensure it doesn't happen.

I've experienced it twice, both times under the conditions you describe; otherwise, no problem at other speeds/conditions. I'm not really into sprints to 60, so it doesn't bother me much, but I can see if you wanted to do that how it would be frustrating.

[aestheticstorm]

Originally Posted by seank

A mild track set-up/ dd would have 1/32 toe-in, in the rear. Toe-out in front 1/32. 2.5 degrees camber in front and 1.5 degrees in the rear.

Toe out in front will help turn in. Toe in in rear will make the car more stable in turns when on the gas.
The general rule is 1 degree less camber in rear than front.

Hope this helps.

Any tramline risk with toe-out in front? It looks like a consensus that front should have toe-in.

[aestheticstorm]

Originally Posted by MFGJR

You can get that much (or more) front camber for $25: http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36-fro...-kit-p610.aspx

Is the Turner Motorsport Front Camber Bolt Kit the same difference?

[seank]

No track car runs toe-in that I have ever heard of. Toe-in is for stock specs, causing to under steer. A good track set-up will feel slightly darty when going down the road.

You could go 0 toe in front, if you performance drive but don't want to deal with the wear or dartiness of a toe-out.

Yes, there is tramline but I wouldnt call it a RISK. Give it a go. If you dont like it, you can always set it back. 1/32 out is only 1/2 of a mm.

The fast subies do up to 4/32 out to compensate for the cars understeering sooo much.

[aestheticstorm]

ok can I get opinions on this alignment? It's a DD with light track duty:

Front:
Camber: -2.5º
Toe-in: 1mm

Rear:
Camber: -1.5º
Toe-in: 2mm

I'm not too concerned with front wear because the last time I changed tires with stock specs the fronts looked brand new while the rears were fried. I don't want to deal with tramlining at all, as it's a DD.

[seank]

I think its great specs. I would personally have 0 toe at front for your uses.

Originally Posted by aestheticstorm

ok can I get opinions on this alignment? It's a DD with light track duty:

Front:
Camber: -2.5º
Toe-in: 1mm

Rear:
Camber: -1.5º
Toe-in: 2mm

I'm not too concerned with front wear because the last time I changed tires with stock specs the fronts looked brand new while the rears were fried. I don't want to deal with tramlining at all, as it's a DD.

[davesz4mc]

is 4/32 really 2/16 really 1/8? just kidding lol

I just got..

Front 1.5 camber - 1/32 toe in
Rear 1.9 camber - 1/32 toe in

I can say the car it totaly differnt and so responsive after the adjustments. I can find they config sheet if you want more info...

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by aestheticstorm

ok can I get opinions on this alignment? It's a DD with light track duty:

Front:
Camber: -2.5º
Toe-in: 1mm

Rear:
Camber: -1.5º
Toe-in: 2mm

I'm not too concerned with front wear because the last time I changed tires with stock specs the fronts looked brand new while the rears were fried. I don't want to deal with tramlining at all, as it's a DD.

Go zero toe in front with those specs. Any toe is going to accelerate wear. I'd go with the Turner kit, more washers to get more adjustment, and a ton of us already run that kit. Either is cheap.

Or you could do what I've done, align with two washers ask the shop to align to get even minimum camber (with those two washers) on both sides. That will give you around 1.7 with a tiny bit (1/32) of toe-in up front. Mark off the settings around the shock tower nuts with a grease-pen. Before a track day (or at the track) jack up the front a bit and move the struts all the way in. That will get around -2.5 front with some toe-out. (It's going to be slightly different on each side, but not enough to matter.) Then slide things back to where you've marked things when done. (Got this idea from The Hack.)

[seank]

4/32

. That is because alignment racks let you place the settings in fraction and degees. When you pick the fraction setting, it stays the same. I.e. 1/32, 2/32, 3/32 etc.