ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-23-2012, 11:56 AM   #1
ZStig
Major General
 
Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

Posts: 7,165
iTrader: (3)

cam/vanos bolts and dealerships

I did some quick searches, and I'm not 100% sure if its the cam bolts or the vanos bolts that are prone to failure. Maybe they're the same thing. Anyway, whats the exact name of the bolt, and how can I convince the dealer to good-will the replacement while they're doing the valve adjustment TODAY?
__________________
ZStig is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2012, 12:16 PM   #2
davesz4mc
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 z4mc
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Posts: 269
iTrader: (0)

I doubt they would good-will replacment if there are no issues with them. It is the vanos tabs and the cam gear bolts. Easy to see if you are in there looking and check each tab as you rotate the motor for valve adjustment.

If I were you I would spend the 4 hours it takes to do it yourself. Replace all the shims and you will be suprised how much the car picks up after getting it done. The dealer is only going to check max clearance and not replace anything in spec.

Every tiny bit of material worn off your shims means your cams do not come off-seat as soon as with new shims. All cars performance starts as soon as the valve comes of seat so the tiny bit sooner the better!

Thats why I think they need to make a half step kit for doing valves, it would increase top end power by 20hp NA I am betting. The current shims are either fit or dont fit and 1 step is the entire adjustment of the assembly. So if you can only get to middle ground on a valve it is not making full power!
davesz4mc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2012, 12:34 PM   #3
davesz4mc
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 z4mc
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Posts: 269
iTrader: (0)

This would be an even bigger improvment for you since you are FI'd... Let me know maybe I can "loan" you my kit if you replace the shims and send it back.
davesz4mc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2012, 01:39 PM   #4
ZStig
Major General
 
Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

Posts: 7,165
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesz4mc View Post
I doubt they would good-will replacment if there are no issues with them. It is the vanos tabs and the cam gear bolts. Easy to see if you are in there looking and check each tab as you rotate the motor for valve adjustment.

If I were you I would spend the 4 hours it takes to do it yourself. Replace all the shims and you will be suprised how much the car picks up after getting it done. The dealer is only going to check max clearance and not replace anything in spec.

Every tiny bit of material worn off your shims means your cams do not come off-seat as soon as with new shims. All cars performance starts as soon as the valve comes of seat so the tiny bit sooner the better!

Thats why I think they need to make a half step kit for doing valves, it would increase top end power by 20hp NA I am betting. The current shims are either fit or dont fit and 1 step is the entire adjustment of the assembly. So if you can only get to middle ground on a valve it is not making full power!
Are you talking abbout the shims which are used during the valve adjustment? If so, the car is being worked on right now at the dealer, for the valve adjustment, and I'd be very hesitant to un-do what they did (and what I paid for)
__________________
ZStig is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2012, 01:48 PM   #5
davesz4mc
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 z4mc
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Posts: 269
iTrader: (0)

You just paid them ~$700 if just a valve adjustment I would think, That was a quote from a local dealer here before I did my own.

They will check if max tolorance fits and if not they do nothing, if it does they will replace shim with original size. That original size can be a full step too small depending on how loose they want thier clearance. In total I do not see them changing more than 4 shims total no matter what they say, did you ask for the spec sheet?

Since you are FI you should of done this youself and changed them all, waaay cheaper even if you buy them shim kit yourself and do not get a loaner. It is super easy to do if you have read my posts on when I did it.

When you get it back sure your valves will be within spec but you will not be getting all the performance you could be getting with a DIY.

I did my own adjustment to include vanos filter a must! for $420 bux and I bought all the tools and everything to have on hand to help local members.
davesz4mc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2012, 01:57 PM   #6
davesz4mc
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 z4mc
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Posts: 269
iTrader: (0)

That is in no way to be belittling or derogatory!!!

My opinion and I am sure others would only want it done by a certified tech.

You can still change the vanos filter yourself as it is on the end of the Cylinder head on the drivers side. It is a big nut with a nut shaped washer on it about 1" tall. You just unscrew it and the vanos filter is on the end of it. Pop the old one off and the new one on and replace the O rings and screw it back in, super easy!
davesz4mc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2012, 02:05 PM   #7
ZStig
Major General
 
Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

Posts: 7,165
iTrader: (3)

Im ok with bolting stuff on but would rather not screw with things myself inside the engine itself. I drive hard, and i drive daily, im ok with paying a littme extra for the peace of mind plus warranty for the work. I did request before and after specs. I would try your shim idea if there were dyno proven gains though
__________________
ZStig is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2012, 03:09 PM   #8
txz4
Major
 
txz4's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 M coupe
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: san antonio, texas

Posts: 1,098
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle View Post
Im ok with bolting stuff on but would rather not screw with things myself inside the engine itself. I drive hard, and i drive daily, im ok with paying a littme extra for the peace of mind plus warranty for the work. I did request before and after specs. I would try your shim idea if there were dyno proven gains though
Well, speaking of dyno proven results... Davez4, there is another dyno day at the same dyno we dynoed on last time. You could compare before Vs. After.
txz4 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2012, 03:48 PM   #9
ZStig
Major General
 
Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

Posts: 7,165
iTrader: (3)

Fuxcing dealership calls and says they couldnt find any service bulletins on the vanos or crankshaft bolts. Oh and they forgot to write down to do the damn vanos adjustment which is the MAIN REASON i brought the car in. Probably wont get it done in time and i will pick up the car for my autocross on sunday. And then come back for the job. Idiots
__________________
ZStig is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-23-2012, 05:16 PM   #10
davesz4mc
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 z4mc
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Posts: 269
iTrader: (0)

that sucks big time!!!

I will do another dyno day for sure will just be a few weeks apart and no other changes.

FYI I lost 1mpg average after doing the valves, how much increased airflow does that equate to? I stepped 6 valves to the next size up. They are a tight min spec but still in spec, I am sure the dealer would not of steped these vales. I replaced all the other shims with new ones and would of half stepped about 12 more. How much more increased flow is it 12 more valves opening .02mm... about 1.2mm of each of those valves coming off the seat sooner, increasing duration and max lift... Yes it would make a difference.
davesz4mc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-24-2012, 12:01 AM   #11
ZStig
Major General
 
Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

Posts: 7,165
iTrader: (3)

Good news is I'm getting a really good price on this, so I'm inclined to go back next week to get the actual job done, not "bro you're missing a valve cover, let us order one"
__________________
ZStig is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-27-2012, 09:01 AM   #12
pokeybritches
Lieutenant Colonel
 
pokeybritches's Avatar
 
Drives: G-Power Z4M, VF Z4 3.0i, ZJ
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Gulf Coast, USA

Posts: 1,761
iTrader: (10)

Garage List
2006 BMW Z4M  [0.00]
2003 BMW Z4 3.0i  [4.33]
Roffle, you do NOT want your dealer messing with the bolts. If not done properly the engine will need to be retimed, and the dealer will blame the symptoms on your FI setup/tune.

I also asked for the spec sheet prior to having my valves adjusted during the last inspection, and I got the same "oops we forgot" answer when I prompted them for the sheet. They told me all were in spec and nothing needed adjustment, which I find hard to believe at ~70k miles. My dad has owned several high performance cars with Cosworth engines, and one of the first things he asked me when he heard my M fire up was if it had solid lifters and when I last checked the tolerances.

FWIW, only certain 2006 cars have the old bolts. As soon as my car is out of warranty I'm going to have mine checked and/or replaced with the new Torx bolts.
__________________
pokeybritches is offline   Afghanistan
0
Reply With Quote
      03-27-2012, 10:57 AM   #13
davesz4mc
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 z4mc
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Posts: 269
iTrader: (0)

I find it hard for someone to mess up bolt replacement but I guess you can't put it past some dealers. With the vanos unit removed to take 1 bolt out and put 1 new bolt in, I would not take them all out at once as that just makes it that much more difficult.
davesz4mc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-27-2012, 11:05 AM   #14
ZStig
Major General
 
Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

Posts: 7,165
iTrader: (3)

Im going back tomorrow for the valve adjustment. Can i ask them for anything specific to increase performance?
__________________
ZStig is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-27-2012, 11:10 AM   #15
davesz4mc
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 z4mc
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Posts: 269
iTrader: (0)

Ask them to replace all the shims reguardless and try to to get as cloe as possible to min spec. I bet they would not do it but does not hurt to ask.
davesz4mc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-28-2012, 10:41 PM   #16
zubydafa
tosser
 
Drives: '07 Z4MC
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Allentown, PA

Posts: 988
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle View Post
Good news is I'm getting a really good price on this, so I'm inclined to go back next week to get the actual job done, not "bro you're missing a valve cover, let us order one"
roffle..are you under warranty?

if not, i wanted to hear your experiences with the shops in philly. i went to bavarian specialties in KOP and have nothing but great things to say about them. i bought my headers from VAC but haven't had any work done there yet..
__________________
'07 MCoupe
lots of mods
zubydafa is offline   Isle of Man
0
Reply With Quote
      03-29-2012, 12:06 AM   #17
ZStig
Major General
 
Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

Posts: 7,165
iTrader: (3)

no. 2006 car with 50k miles. no extended warranties. I've heard good and bad things about VAC, but they do so much volume, its expected to have a few unsatisfied customers. They've been good to me over the years, dating back a few cars.

Bavarian Specialties is probably good.

so far Thompson BMW of Doylestown didn't even say "sorry" for forgetting to put add the valve adjustment to my work order the first time, and didn't act sorry. They ARE giving me the valve adjustment for $530 w/tax + loaner vehicle (big deal to me), vs VAC's $600. They're also gonna reprogram my car to not overcharge the tiny new battery. I asked them to adjust the valves so I have the max amount of possible power, but within specs. Will see what the spec sheet shows tomorrow
__________________
ZStig is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-29-2012, 10:33 AM   #18
runnerx
Second Lieutenant
 
runnerx's Avatar
 
Drives: 06 M roadster; 06 330i 6spd
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Bay Area, California

Posts: 258
iTrader: (0)

For valve adjustment, it is always better to have it on the looser side of the spec than tighter side of the spec.
__________________
2006 BMW ///M Roadster 6spd manual
2006 BMW 330i 6spd manual


https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--bIgrh8ES_s/TxSUCvOmDUI/AAAAAAAAPh0/OOjwrRZtta0/s912/z4mcomparo.jpg
runnerx is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      03-29-2012, 12:29 PM   #19
ZStig
Major General
 
Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

Posts: 7,165
iTrader: (3)

Can bolts were fine. Intake and exhaust valves all adjusted to 6mm if im reading correctly. Nice that they put a new gasket on the valve
cover too. Drives the same as before
__________________
ZStig is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-29-2012, 01:43 PM   #20
ZStig
Major General
 
Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

Posts: 7,165
iTrader: (3)

Nevermind they just gave me what the specs SHOULD be. Didnt have the before and afters. Conveniently forgot
__________________
ZStig is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-29-2012, 01:51 PM   #21
davesz4mc
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 z4mc
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Antonio, Tx

Posts: 269
iTrader: (0)

6mm? specs are .18mm min, .23 max intake and .28mm min, .33mm max exhaust. That seems a little fishy in and of itself with a spec swing of .05mm.

I would ask them for the sheet as proof of a valve adjusment and if they "forgot" after you requested it they need to pull the cover and get the specs. If they hassle you I would tell them you are going to have them re-inspected (not adjusted) at an indie shop to ensure they are within tolerance.
davesz4mc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      03-29-2012, 01:59 PM   #22
ZStig
Major General
 
Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

Posts: 7,165
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by davesz4mc
6mm? specs are .18mm min, .23 max intake and .28mm min, .33mm max exhaust. That seems a little fishy in and of itself with a spec swing of .05mm.

I would ask them for the sheet as proof of a valve adjusment and if they "forgot" after you requested it they need to pull the cover and get the specs. If they hassle you I would tell them you are going to have them re-inspected (not adjusted) at an indie shop to ensure they are within tolerance.
I was reading the wrong thing. Anyway, they had to order a shim, and they listed the part numbers of the shims or washers they used, so im assuming the job WAS done. Not sure if its worth driving 45mins each way to have them measure the specs now that im home
__________________
ZStig is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:32 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST