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      10-23-2012, 12:10 AM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikamak View Post
Beedub, look at my reasoning:
VF = some e46 blown motor builds have made me scared of this kit,
EAS still having issues, VF not posting up any technical data for me, sent them a mail and still no reply

ESS = refuse to give me the vt2-500 without being installed in house, unless I accept without warranty

Gpower = more expensive than the above, I dunno how drivable is the car, ironZ4M is a little busy these days, not replying on whatsapp, Gpower in Germany wants 7k euros for it, and frankly for the power and the other insane dealer price offers I have from other SC companies, this is more expensive. If EUR/USD spot was any closer to 1, I would have pulled the trigger after some discussion to use the T1-522 instead of T1-518

HPF= turbo build, trusted tuner, just need to wait on John to finish creating the piggy back for the mss70, if they can do that in the next couple of months, I will pull the trigger, but certainly not buy the tuner kit and have tuning hell.

I hope you didn't think I was jumping into HpF, I would never do that, I only buy bolt on reliable crap for my little stress reliever. No point in owning it if it would cause more stress.
Let me clarify a bit...

VF= had a few problems in the past (as most every company has had); everything was fixed and they produce an amazing product. Just look at their E9x kits, etc.

ESS= another great option. In my emails to them, they assume everyone interested in their kits are incompetent fools and don't know how to install a simple SC kit (huge turn off for me); which sounds like your experience as well.

G-power= it's expensive and we don't know if it actually produces the torque that we've all been led to believe... (need pic of dyno still)

HPF= is not even available or anywhere close; so it's completely not an option at all.
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      10-23-2012, 12:32 AM   #90
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Have you guys read the huge expensive ordeal that was getting the VT2-500 kit installed correctly for iPhoneEngineer? Search the forums if you haven't. There's good reason they limit the number of shops that can install the stage 2 kit.

I'm with beedub on this one, G-Power or ESS. G-power having an edge if the numbers check out. VF might be very good but we have no data. Turbocharging is still a dream (for both companies attempting it).
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      10-23-2012, 12:53 AM   #91
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Why haven't VF posted any videos to advertise their z4m kit ??
Why haven't EAS posted any videos to advertise their vf570 white Z4M beast??
The kit is not perfected and tuning issues are still there, I would be scared if I were you.
The best offer I have had so far is from VF and most mechanic friends have told me that the hardware is very good, very OEM like, not more, I wanted to buy 2-3 kits but I called it off after reading the issues. I mean I can sell a kit to a client and warranty him if his engine might blow. I agree that the e92 kits are insane.

The vt2-500 is indeed hard but my mechanic friend has created his own supercharger for e46m3, tune and all, the car is pawning m5s and m6s, so I think he is qualified to install it.

I doubt gpower will make that much torque, that's ironZ4m special setup, we can wait for the dyno, the kit is advertised as 460 N.m crank, which is 333 lb/ft CRaNK, maybe the T1-521 is the reason all that power is made, maybe his mechanical vanos timing is pro fuel on 3-4 K rpm as I have done to my car, it pulls like a train. I beat stock US e46 m3 by 14 cars length with evolve tune and euro headers

HPF is not an option right now, you are correct.
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      10-23-2012, 02:05 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikamak
Why haven't VF posted any videos to advertise their z4m kit ??
Not everyone lives right next to VF... Installs are done at different shops, customers drive away and enjoy their cars. More people are not on the forum than are on the forum and very few care to take videos of their car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikamak
The kit is not perfected and tuning issues are still there, I would be scared if I were you.
This is an assumption based on nothing.
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      10-23-2012, 02:55 AM   #93
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Rated you got PM
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      10-23-2012, 03:55 AM   #94
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hi guys, this has turned into a really great thread imo, i guess it will answer alot of questions that we all have and for future owners too...

now onto the ESS install... i know their are plenty of install gods out their, id like to have think i could have done it myself, but in reality i simply couldnt... Its really tight down their and to get certain things in place, the engine has to be lifted, some of the intercooler pipework just id a complete nightmare and in many cases needs modications to fit, i promise its definitely not an DIY thing unless your really confident. Ess didnt make it an inhouse install for no reason....

a few people i know have had server issues getting them to work correctly when they were done, should warranty be voided however??? no way, their are definitely people that are more than confident. The general kit looks nice and simple but i think its the amount of dismantleing that makes things overly complicated. When i went to my shop mid install i was pretty concerned to see my motor lifted out the car slightly, lol....

Now tika the VF 570, ESS550 will net you some serious power, Tq figures will be very impressive too as the blower will be producing 9/10/11ish lbs, the large blower is just working nicely at this point!!

HPF???? hmmmmm honestly?? im not convinced.... if you can get 500rwhp from a s/c setup then it has to be the best way forward.. in a car this small / short wheel base i just cant see it being a tractable car!!

The s/c setups keep the curve the same, just move it up the graph.... imo FAR more in keeping with the direction this car should be tuned in!! i can definitely see the allure to HPF, BUT... lets talk about them when it actually is released!! Im pretty certain this WONT be happening ;-)

I think due to what youve said the best options are the g-power or the VF..... no point having a new s.c setup with no warranty, as something will most likely go wrong so you need that.
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      10-23-2012, 04:18 AM   #95
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I'm afraid of VF's discrete profile, if I was a tuner and i had a kit that made almost 500 rwhp on this little car in a safe reliable fun way, I'd be calling the president asking him to announce it in his debates. I'd be putting Z4M supercharged VF570 in movies as subliminal message pictures between frames.

The fact that I am not advertising this, shows my little confidence in my product.
VF's advertisement is large and i think if they wanted they could squeeze in a little Z4M.

Trust me, I'm not against VF, I am ready to buy 2 VF570 kits as this is the best offer i have had so far. it's only the lack of videos. one for my little car and one for my friend's e46 M3.
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      10-23-2012, 04:58 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikamak View Post
I'm afraid of VF's discrete profile, if I was a tuner and i had a kit that made almost 500 rwhp on this little car in a safe reliable fun way, I'd be calling the president asking him to announce it in his debates. I'd be putting Z4M supercharged VF570 in movies as subliminal message pictures between frames.

The fact that I am not advertising this, shows my little confidence in my product.
VF's advertisement is large and i think if they wanted they could squeeze in a little Z4M.

Trust me, I'm not against VF, I am ready to buy 2 VF570 kits as this is the best offer i have had so far. it's only the lack of videos. one for my little car and one for my friend's e46 M3.
i see your fear.... fit it, watch the AFRs.... you'll be good to go!! Or Ask ess to warranty your kit after youve varied its installed correctly and functioning correctly. Shame ESS have ruled out their kit for you as IMO, is the best kit available from an all round stand point.
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      10-23-2012, 06:24 AM   #97
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Yeah i know man, I really wanted an air-to-air system first and an ESS VT2-500 second. it's a shame that they haven't built this kit to be bolt on.

From what i understand, there's a part of the hardware that should be manufactured by the installer depending on each car. now i don't know what this is, any idea which part is it bee?

Funny how an HPF thread has turned into a discussion about superchargers. come on Chris, where's the ingenuity, give us something, a progress bar at least.
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      10-23-2012, 08:41 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikamak View Post
Yeah i know man, I really wanted an air-to-air system first and an ESS VT2-500 second. it's a shame that they haven't built this kit to be bolt on.

From what i understand, there's a part of the hardware that should be manufactured by the installer depending on each car. now i don't know what this is, any idea which part is it bee?

Funny how an HPF thread has turned into a discussion about superchargers. come on Chris, where's the ingenuity, give us something, a progress bar at least.
copy some of these comments over to your thread ;-)
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      10-23-2012, 02:17 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by beta View Post
Have you guys read the huge expensive ordeal that was getting the VT2-500 kit installed correctly for iPhoneEngineer? Search the forums if you haven't. There's good reason they limit the number of shops that can install the stage 2 kit.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikamak View Post
my mechanic friend has created his own supercharger for e46m3, tune and all, the car is pawning m5s and m6s, so I think he is qualified to install it.
No, he isn't.
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      10-23-2012, 03:36 PM   #100
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What makes you say that ??
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      10-23-2012, 08:05 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tikamak
What makes you say that ??
Because ESS has selected a short-list of pro shops that have a track record of getting their installs right and are trying to shy away from 'friend mechanics who've built home-made superchargers that are 'pwning' M5's'.
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      10-23-2012, 08:35 PM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johanness
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikamak
What makes you say that ??
Because ESS has selected a short-list of pro shops that have a track record of getting their installs right and are trying to shy away from 'friend mechanics who've built home-made superchargers that are 'pwning' M5's'.
He was implying that his friend is physically capable of installing what should be, but isn't, a bolt on kit. The fact that ESS requires certain shops to install their kit simply means their kit wasn't designed well enough to be a user friendly install.
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      10-23-2012, 09:25 PM   #103
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The ESS system wasn't designed well-enough? Ok.
Anyone is 'physically' capable of installing their kit, but getting it right is another thing. Exclusivity has its pros/cons. I think it's a good decision on their part NOT to let every homebody with a wrench install their units.
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      10-23-2012, 09:39 PM   #104
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Quote:
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The ESS system wasn't designed well-enough? Ok.
Anyone is 'physically' capable of installing their kit, but getting it right is another thing. Exclusivity has its pros/cons. I think it's a good decision on their part NOT to let every homebody with a wrench install their units.
If every kit needs extensive tweaking to fit things like the front mount, then no it was not designed well enought to qualify as user friendly. My statement was not difficult to understand; so why try to argue it?

When I said physically, it was implied that the physical install involved "getting it right". You're arguing for the sake of arguing (and you'll probably continue to). I do agree that it is a good idea from a liability stand point to have pre approved shops do the install, but what ESS assumes is that everyone that isn't a pre approved shop, is a idiot. What annoys me is that they assume people are idiots, not that they decided to only have certain shops do the install...
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      10-23-2012, 10:00 PM   #105
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If every kit needs extensive tweaking to fit things like the front mount, then no it was not designed well enought to qualify as user friendly. My statement was not difficult to understand; so why try to argue it?

When I said physically, it was implied that the physical install involved "getting it right". You're arguing for the sake of arguing (and you'll probably continue to). I do agree that it is a good idea from a liability stand point to have pre approved shops do the install, but what ESS assumes is that everyone that isn't a pre approved shop, is a idiot. What annoys me is that they assume people are idiots, not that they decided to only have certain shops do the install...
Not arguing, sorry. Explaining to Tikamak why there's no hope for his friend to do the install... and with very good reason. A couple of topics over at iPhoneEngineers build thread should give all the necessary examples. I don't know if ESS assumes everyone's an idiot or not, but like it or not that's the way it is.
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      10-23-2012, 10:07 PM   #106
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I have no idea why you guys have polluted this thread with supercharger comparisons, when there is a thread SPECIFICALLY dedicated to that. let this be a turbo build thread that may or may not go anywhere
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      10-23-2012, 10:11 PM   #107
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Not arguing, sorry. Explaining to Tikamak why there's no hope for his friend to do the install... and with very good reason. A couple of topics over at iPhoneEngineers build thread should give all the necessary examples. I don't know if ESS assumes everyone's an idiot or not, but like it or not that's the way it is.
Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle View Post
I have no idea why you guys have polluted this thread with supercharger comparisons, when there is a thread SPECIFICALLY dedicated to that. let this be a turbo build thread that may or may not go anywhere
It's not going anywhere; so we're discussing kits that actually exist (if a mod wants to merge all SC related posts, that's fine)...
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      10-23-2012, 10:32 PM   #108
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Man my friend designed did a z4m conversion on a regular z4. If installing ESS VT2-500 is harder than that, then i dont want the kit,.

Anyway, i think the vortech V3 is not suited for the S54 at the boost levels we are operating, it works for big v8s and bigger engines, compare a stock dyno graph next to an ess vt2 and show me where it makes its power, 6500rpm and above

Not all the tuners can tune as well, it takes a realtuner to understand how to adjust cam timing and increase dynamic compression in an s54. If the driving is smooth it doesnt mean its the best tune ever.

Ill be happy to take you on a ride in my car. That was properly tuned with correct variables, you have ample torque everywhere and the power is absolutely brutal above 4K rpm, I might not have that extra 5hp 7500RPM but I can assure you that I'm ready to drag anyone who is tuned with a different company.
Just for the record, I am dragging e46 m3s stock US by 12-14 cars length.

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      10-24-2012, 02:23 AM   #109
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Quote:
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Man my friend designed did a z4m conversion on a regular z4. If installing ESS VT2-500 is harder than that, then i dont want the kit,.

Anyway, i think the vortech V3 is not suited for the S54 at the boost levels we are operating, it works for big v8s and bigger engines, compare a stock dyno graph next to an ess vt2 and show me where it makes its power, 6500rpm and above

Not all the tuners can tune as well, it takes a realtuner to understand how to adjust cam timing and increase dynamic compression in an s54. If the driving is smooth it doesnt mean its the best tune ever.

Ill be happy to take you on a ride in my car. That was properly tuned with correct variables, you have ample torque everywhere and the power is absolutely brutal above 4K rpm, I might not have that extra 5hp 7500RPM but I can assure you that I'm ready to drag anyone who is tuned with a different company.
Just for the record, I am dragging e46 m3s stock US by 12-14 cars length.
Ess choose for the vt2+ kits to be pro install for a reason.... maybe complicated isnt the right word, but its a very involved install.... if anyones interested im happy to copy the install manual when i get home later and pdf it??? Now the kits on the car im very pleased....


^^^^ waiting for Ess to pm me and tell me not to send out the manual. lol.
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      10-24-2012, 09:32 AM   #110
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Ok its not like u need to be mechanic God to install vt2-500. Sheesh. Its just a tight fit with the intercooler pipes, and hard if not impossible to get right the first time.
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