One bad Z4M.. in progress.. - Page 2

habitat412 · 01-01-2012, 10:53 PM

Man this kit looks serious. I've been waiting for HPF's Z4M turbo kit to be released, but this one just seems to look better, it's probably that twinscroll turbo manifold that's just a beauty!

Beedub · 01-02-2012, 04:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZooyorQ

Hey Beedub! Its Marcus from E46F.

There is definitely a bunch of knowledge that could be replicated. I would call Shawn/Andrew at Lutz Performance in Tampa. They build some amazing BMW's down there and thats why we brought it there.. even though its the FURTHEST spot from Nor Cal possible.

Tell them I (Marcus) sent ya. They'll hook you up with a Turbo Z4M, or anything really for that matter.. Shawn is an incredible fabricator!

hey marcus!! glad to have you over here!!! BTW love that video..... thats the type of video that makes me make cake to watch!! pro-efi is the real deal imo...... i just love what it does!! This z4m is serious and im loving all the tuned z4m's coming out, its a perfect base to mod imo..... marcus, thanks for making this post and make sure you stick around ;-) love your m3 btw..... flex fuel makes me seriously consider pro-efi, but im not sure how it works with supercharged setups....

JB 007 · 01-02-2012, 08:29 AM

Wow..This is what I waiting for..Amazing
Subscribed..

mfanatic325 · 01-02-2012, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZooyorQ

It will be running a ProEFI 128 EMS, not sure on the PSI yet.. somewhere likely between 13-17 I'm guessing, its going to be a flex fuel car though, so it will run a mixture of E85 (Ethanol) and Gas.. or just straight Ethanol. It is having a surge tank built as well.

The Z4M uses a ZF Transmission and my E46 M3 uses a Getrag.. the Getrag has held up to 1000rwhp without breaking a sweat.. only time will tell how the ZF holds 600rwhp.. but I'm willing to bet it will do just fine.

Please excuse my lack of experience and knowledge, but what additional components must be added or modified (aside from a proper tune) in order to run stuff like E85?

Also, do you maybe have a ballpark price range for a setup like this? How much did your buddy dish out for a one-off build @ Lutz Performance?

txz4 · 01-02-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfanatic325

Please excuse my lack of experience and knowledge, but what additional components must be added or modified (aside from a proper tune) in order to run stuff like E85?

Also, do you maybe have a ballpark price range for a setup like this? How much did your buddy dish out for a one-off build @ Lutz Performance?

I believe you would need new lines and filters if im not mistaken...

Z4-VILLA · 01-02-2012, 10:03 PM

sell a kidney

ZooyorQ · 01-02-2012, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beedub

hey marcus!! glad to have you over here!!! BTW love that video..... thats the type of video that makes me make cake to watch!! pro-efi is the real deal imo...... i just love what it does!! This z4m is serious and im loving all the tuned z4m's coming out, its a perfect base to mod imo..... marcus, thanks for making this post and make sure you stick around ;-) love your m3 btw..... flex fuel makes me seriously consider pro-efi, but im not sure how it works with supercharged setups....

For an E85 conversion you need to flow 40% (roughly) more fuel, and its recommended (but not required) that you have teflon coated lines.. most 2003ish+fuel systems have something other than rubber for the fuel lines/etc so you'd probably be fine with just an uprated intank fuel pump. You'll also need bigger injectors to flow that additional fuel and a flex fuel sensor as well as a ECU that supports flex fuel. If you wanted flex fuel capabilities that is. If you're fine with just straight e85 (meaning you can't mix the two fuels) you'd just need a tune, injectors and an uprated pump.

You'd see gains on a s/c setup with E85 but not as dramatic as a turbo being your s/c is belt driven and our turbos are exhaust driven. E85 is 40% more fuel, which means more exhaust volume, which means a faster spool.. its also capable on our S54's to make 900rwhp+ on just E85. So if you had a meth setup running E85 would be similar results as your meth setup, but 100% of the time, and with less safety/reliability issues.

ZooyorQ · 01-02-2012, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z4-Villalona

what with the Wii controller thingy?

Thats a sound decibel meter. I was just showing how loud my car is.. my car has no mufflers or cats and is 4" in diameter from the turbo back.. I do have one large resonator though.

Z4-VILLA · 01-02-2012, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZooyorQ

Thats a sound decibel meter. I was just showing how loud my car is.. my car has no mufflers or cats and is 4" in diameter from the turbo back.. I do have one large resonator though.

dude

VinnieAces · 01-02-2012, 11:35 PM

any chance of Lutz making this more than just a one-off and making it a production kit?

ZooyorQ · 01-02-2012, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VinnieAces

any chance of Lutz making this more than just a one-off and making it a production kit?

Theres always the possibility. I'd call Andrew at Lutz.

mfanatic325 · 01-03-2012, 03:16 AM

I wonder how much a setup like this would push out with just plain old 91 octane?

ZooyorQ · 01-03-2012, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfanatic325

I wonder how much a setup like this would push out with just plain old 91 octane?

I'm guessing around 400rwhp.

Twisted Six · 01-03-2012, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZooyorQ

I'm guessing around 400rwhp.

On 91 octane with no modifiers for fuel.....most turbo systems add 50% HP if efficient.

So...330hp divided x2 = 165hp added to 330hp = 495hp.

Thats a low boost estimate at best.

Larger intercooler system + more boost equals more HP and so on...........

ZooyorQ · 01-03-2012, 01:03 PM

I feel silly even saying this but some people aren't aware of what the difference between hp and rwhp is..

hp is rated at the crank
rwhp is rated at the rear wheels (aka on a wheel driven dyno)

Most say that a manual car loses about 10%-15% of its hp through the driveline. So a car like a Z4M which makes roughly 330hp at the crank or so would make around 290rwhp.. Most s/c kit companies (ess/etc) rate their kits at the crank. So I believe the VT-500 is rated for 500 at the crank, and likely makes about 425-450rwhp.

Our goal would be (on E85, not pump) to make about 650rwhp with this setup, so roughly 750hp+ to the crank.

The S54 on stock internals is good to high 700rwhp.. not a good idea.. and likely not to last to long, but its been done. 600-650rwhp on the stock internals has been proven to be very reliable, hence that being our goal.

e for effort · 01-03-2012, 02:21 PM

Very informative stuff here. Subscribed for epic pony powers.

ZStig · 01-03-2012, 03:36 PM

600rwhp sounds like a very fun goal!

I'd suggest custom (longer) gears though

ZooyorQ · 01-03-2012, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roffle Waffle

600rwhp sounds like a very fun goal!

I'd suggest custom (longer) gears though

My M3 (e46) Getrag tranny and the Z4M ZF tranny aren't geared all that different and I think the final ratios are pretty close as well. The gearing up top is perfect but the gearing down in 1st/2nd is way to aggressive..

Changing the final drive would probably net you better results in 1st and 2nd but you'd be sacraficing 3rd-6th.. the ultimate thing would be to find out a way to gear 1st and 2nd to be a bit longer.. especially 1st.. M cars have always had a notoriously low first gear.. which creates the impression that the car is quickier then it really is.. soon as you add F/I that 1st gear is absolutely worthless.

ZStig · 01-03-2012, 05:34 PM

yeah, I was specifically referring to the first 2 gears

Twisted Six · 01-04-2012, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZooyorQ

My M3 (e46) Getrag tranny and the Z4M ZF tranny aren't geared all that different and I think the final ratios are pretty close as well. The gearing up top is perfect but the gearing down in 1st/2nd is way to aggressive..

Changing the final drive would probably net you better results in 1st and 2nd but you'd be sacraficing 3rd-6th.. the ultimate thing would be to find out a way to gear 1st and 2nd to be a bit longer.. especially 1st.. M cars have always had a notoriously low first gear.. which creates the impression that the car is quickier then it really is.. soon as you add F/I that 1st gear is absolutely worthless.

Red above ^

One thing for sure.....you'll want to find the gearing that allows to match the sweet spot where your choice of turbo breathes the hardest and lives there the longest for the most torque and drive-ability.....but I'd bet your already schooled on those points.

ZooyorQ · 01-04-2012, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Schnitzer

Red above ^

One thing for sure.....you'll want to find the gearing that allows to match the sweet spot where your choice of turbo breathes the hardest and lives there the longest for the most torque and drive-ability.....but I'd bet your already schooled on those points.

In a perfect world, or with a power glide tranny that could be acomplished... but with our ZF/Getrag trannys the only thing we can really do is adjust our final drive.. we could likely take a 2.9x final drive from something like an E46 (non-M) and maybe get 5-7mph more out of 1st.. but still with 650rwhp first, with any ratio.. will be pretty worthless.

FerRrari · 01-04-2012, 01:31 AM

You can always modulate your throttle inputs to alleviate traction issues, smoothness is key to driving fast

01-02-2012, 08:29 AM	#25
JB 007 First Lieutenant Drives: Z4MC RRS MINI... Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Nicosia Posts: 380 iTrader: (0)	Wow..This is what I waiting for..Amazing Subscribed.. __________________ Z4MC_Black Sapphire/Imola-_-DMS ECU ll H&S cat-back ll H&R coilovers ll CF Lip ll Lamin-X ll Matte black kidneys ll Afe drop in ll Afe intake elbow ll RPi scoop ll LeatherZ imola shift boot ll ZHP knob...

01-02-2012, 11:35 PM	#32
VinnieAces Lieutenant Colonel Drives: Imola Red Z4MC Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Ontario, Can Posts: 1,558 iTrader: (2) Garage List 2006 Z4 M Coupe [4.75]	any chance of Lutz making this more than just a one-off and making it a production kit? __________________ ///M - Some Mods 'N Stuff

01-03-2012, 03:16 AM	#34
mfanatic325 ///M-fanatic Drives: '07 Z4MC, '04 325Ci Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Cupertino, CA. Posts: 3,325 iTrader: (18) Garage List 2007 BMW Z4M Coupe [4.45]	I wonder how much a setup like this would push out with just plain old 91 octane? __________________ VF570 S/C\|TIAL BOV\|SetRab Oil Cooler\|Brembo GT 6/4\|TE37s\|NT05s\|3.91 Gearing\|TCK D/A\|RPi Induction\|SS Race Mufflers/X-pipe\|JVT Headers\|AS SSK\|Sparco Pro2000/6pt.Harness\|MS FloorMounts\|SE Custom Harness Bar\|Tekarbon Angels\|M-Tech Pedals\|OE Strut Bar\|RE RSMs\|8000K D2S\|CDV DEL\|CF Roof Wrap\|MB Grills\|UUC TrannyMounts/ClutchStop\|V1 Mount

01-03-2012, 02:21 PM	#38
e for effort Rolling Republic Drives: M Coupe Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Sacramento Posts: 234 iTrader: (1)	Very informative stuff here. Subscribed for epic pony powers. __________________ Check out my automotive blog @ http://rollingrepublic.com We are now offering Rolling Republic decals as well, so shoot me a message if you'd like one!

01-03-2012, 03:36 PM	#39
ZStig Major General Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL Posts: 6,406 iTrader: (3)	600rwhp sounds like a very fun goal! I'd suggest custom (longer) gears though __________________

01-01-2012, 10:53 PM	#23
habitat412 Private Drives: 2008 Z4 M Coupe Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: St. Louis Posts: 98 iTrader: (1)	Man this kit looks serious. I've been waiting for HPF's Z4M turbo kit to be released, but this one just seems to look better, it's probably that twinscroll turbo manifold that's just a beauty!

01-02-2012, 10:03 PM	#28
Z4-VILLA Banned Drives: Z4M Hardtop Roadster Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Classified Posts: 2,460 iTrader: (0)	sell a kidney

01-03-2012, 01:03 PM	#37
ZooyorQ Private First Class Drives: BMW M3 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Bay Area Posts: 109 iTrader: (0)	I feel silly even saying this but some people aren't aware of what the difference between hp and rwhp is.. hp is rated at the crank rwhp is rated at the rear wheels (aka on a wheel driven dyno) Most say that a manual car loses about 10%-15% of its hp through the driveline. So a car like a Z4M which makes roughly 330hp at the crank or so would make around 290rwhp.. Most s/c kit companies (ess/etc) rate their kits at the crank. So I believe the VT-500 is rated for 500 at the crank, and likely makes about 425-450rwhp. Our goal would be (on E85, not pump) to make about 650rwhp with this setup, so roughly 750hp+ to the crank. The S54 on stock internals is good to high 700rwhp.. not a good idea.. and likely not to last to long, but its been done. 600-650rwhp on the stock internals has been proven to be very reliable, hence that being our goal.

01-03-2012, 05:34 PM	#41
ZStig Major General Drives: VT2-500 M Roadster Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Delray Beach, FL Posts: 6,406 iTrader: (3)	yeah, I was specifically referring to the first 2 gears __________________

01-04-2012, 01:31 AM	#44
FerRrari First Lieutenant Drives: Catrinel Menghia Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: WA Posts: 389 iTrader: (1)	You can always modulate your throttle inputs to alleviate traction issues, smoothness is key to driving fast __________________ '12 Nero/Rosso 500 Abarth '07 IR/SBL ///M Roadster (GONE), '08 Tornado Red Triumph Daytona (GONE), '09 BRG/Cloth 6MT MINI Cooper S (Spontaneously Combusted), '06 IR/IR ///M3 Convertible 6MT (GONE), '04 JB/CR Z4 2.5i SMG (GONE)

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