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      08-09-2007, 12:33 AM   #419
FloridaBoy
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Originally Posted by enfield View Post
The Christian/Islamic/Jewish God destroys cities (Soddom et al), destroys the world (Noah et al), tells the Jews to kill at the Philistines (promised land story), turns the other cheek (Jesus), forgives them for they know not (Jesus), and then goes on a Jihad.
Good gosh enfield; you really are confused.
You are equating the God of the Bible with Allah. This is a fatal error. The two are as different as salt water and spring water. They may APPEAR the same, but only one will save you from eternal death. How do I know they are different? Easy. They don't have the same names, they don't have the same natures and they certainly don't have the same plan for your salvation. You need to go back and do your homework.

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Thay have the same prophets until you get to Jesus and that is where the pi$$ing match starts. I find such a God to be highly reactive and highly unstable. If that is what God is about then I do not want to have anything to do with the such a hateful and vengeful God.
First you need to sort out which God you are talking about. Your statement above shows you have not done this. I am not here to argue with you anymore than I will argue with the poor decieved Muslims on this forum. I do not argue with people about this, I do not come on here every and "debate religion." What I will do is warn you so listen up and listen good;

The red light is going off on your dash board. You are betting your eternal soul on a weak, incorrect view of Jesus Christ, so WAKE UP and get to know the real Jesus while you still have time.

If you believe in a "supreme being," then hopefully you can believe that "being" would love you enough to contact you and tell you you are heading for terrible judgement if you die in your sins without the blood of Christ to provide the righteousness you need to stand before your Creator. Well, the good news is; He does love you and He sent me to tell you. Someone just cared enough for your sinful, wretched soul to shine a light into your darkness and tell you the truth. What you do with it from here is your decision, but you cannot say you were not warned. I hope you will seek Christ, I have posted a link at the bottom of this message, it's not fancy but it will help you or anyone reading this to pray and ask God for His gift of salvation.

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My God is a God who is loving. A God who is kind. A forgiving God. A God who wants all of it's creations to grow, become more patient, be kind and not hurt others. My God is a stable God and does not act as though it had a "Borderline Personality Disorder"
News flash; you are lost in a maze of temporary heavens and/or hells, reincarnation, nirvana, polytheistic mysticism, idolatry, occultism and ultimately a pantheistic-cosmic "Buddha nature" which you will never find. There is no cheese at the end of the maze. You have simply "bought in" to another one of the world's religions, which is actually just another system of salvation by works. This is part of the "broad way" which leads to destruction. There is a "narrow way" that leads to life. I urge you to seek it for your own good.

You claim to have a loving god, where did you get that idea? Gautama taught nothing about God. He refused even to deny or affirm God's existence. He even denied that he himself was divine.

My friend, you have no real concept of the loving God at all. Which of your "gods" shed his blood to atone for your rotten sins? Check Acts 20:28, you will see it was not Gautama Buddha. Like it or not, you are just as sin-cursed as the rest of us. You are getting a little closer to the grave every day and you better wake up because your soul is hanging in the balance. There is only one name under heaven that will save you. Learn it, call on it, trust it. Jesus is the only way. Remember someone cared enough to tell you.

"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."
Romans 3:23-26

"Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood." Acts 20:28

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/howtobesaved.htm
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      08-09-2007, 05:58 PM   #420
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My friend FloridaBoy. You start by telling me that I am confused.... That is unkind.

Then you talk about how I will suffer etc. blood of Christ (someone who never existed see - http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/ ) - then you tell me that Christ sent you to save my soul. Then you say and I quote
Quote:
Someone just cared enough for your sinful, wretched soul to shine a light into your darkness and tell you the truth.
Then you go on to say:
Quote:
News flash; you are lost in a maze of temporary heavens and/or hells, reincarnation, nirvana, polytheistic mysticism, idolatry, occultism and ultimately a pantheistic-cosmic "Buddha nature" which you will never find. There is no cheese at the end of the maze. You have simply "bought in" to another one of the world's religions, which is actually just another system of salvation by works. This is part of the "broad way" which leads to destruction. There is a "narrow way" that leads to life. I urge you to seek it for your own good.

You claim to have a loving god, where did you get that idea? Gautama taught nothing about God. He refused even to deny or affirm God's existence. He even denied that he himself was divine.

My friend, you have no real concept of the loving God at all. Which of your "gods" shed his blood to atone for your rotten sins? Check Acts 20:28, you will see it was not Gautama Buddha. Like it or not, you are just as sin-cursed as the rest of us. You are getting a little closer to the grave every day and you better wake up because your soul is hanging in the balance. There is only one name under heaven that will save you. Learn it, call on it, trust it. Jesus is the only way. Remember someone cared enough to tell you.
I really have nothing to say to you. I am gobsmacked - I am shocked. Your post speaks volumes.

I am going to follow the advice of the Dalai Lama - "Be kind whenever possible.... it is always possible."
I hope that you and your loved ones have happy, successful and fruitful lives. May the true God grant you the gift of kindness. I am not Buddhist by the way. I have belief in one God. I do not believe in any organised religion.

My God is as I have described. My God is an accepting, patient, kind and loving God. My God will not harm you no-matter what you think, say or do.
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      08-09-2007, 06:07 PM   #421
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An interesting movie: http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

It is almost 2 hours long and illistrates an interesting viewpoint on Christianity and the present.
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      08-11-2007, 05:51 AM   #422
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Good gosh enfield; you really are confused.
You are equating the God of the Bible with Allah. This is a fatal error. The two are as different as salt water and spring water. They may APPEAR the same, but only one will save you from eternal death. How do I know they are different? Easy. They don't have the same names, they don't have the same natures and they certainly don't have the same plan for your salvation. You need to go back and do your homework.
I cant agree with this. Parts of the Bible make it clear that we have to repent for our sins and that Jesus was here to preach, not to die for us. Jesus even said he completed his work long before his "crucifixion". Then other parts of the bible say that Jesus came to die for our sins and as long as we accept it, our sins are paid for. Which is it?

Also, did you know that the name "Allah" cannot be made as plural, or given a gender etc. You cannot add any prefix or suffix to alter the word in any shape or form!

Quote:
If you believe in a "supreme being," then hopefully you can believe that "being" would love you enough to contact you and tell you you are heading for terrible judgement if you die in your sins without the blood of Christ to provide the righteousness you need to stand before your Creator.
This statement presupposes that one would believe that Jesus is God/God's son. I believe that Allah is a supreme being and that he has contacted us in many forms. However, I dont believe that I need to die in anyone's blood...
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      08-11-2007, 05:58 AM   #423
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Originally Posted by enfield View Post
My God is as I have described. My God is an accepting, patient, kind and loving God. My God will not harm you no-matter what you think, say or do.
My friend, I see that you believe in the oneness of God which is good. However, you already have your own idea about who God is...

You said that God would never harm us, that is true, but is harm the same as punishment? I don't think so. Harm implies that you are deliberately seeking to hurt someone whereas punishment is the consequence of your wrong doing. Also, if God created us, then how could Buddhism be the truth? It doesnt even claim to be the word of any God nor does it admit there is a God. What I'm trying to say is that if God created us, he wouldnt leave us to perish, he would guide us with the way of life HE chose for us. Not the way of life we create for ourselves. If this is the case then we could all choose different ways of living and they would always conflict with eachother! I dont feel Buddhism really deals with the idea of creation very well at all...

Sorry it's just my opinion. I always say things with respect
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      08-11-2007, 01:47 PM   #424
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I cant agree with this. Parts of the Bible make it clear that we have to repent for our sins and that Jesus was here to preach, not to die for us. Jesus even said he completed his work long before his "crucifixion". Then other parts of the bible say that Jesus came to die for our sins and as long as we accept it, our sins are paid for. Which is it?

Also, did you know that the name "Allah" cannot be made as plural, or given a gender etc. You cannot add any prefix or suffix to alter the word in any shape or form!

This statement presupposes that one would believe that Jesus is God/God's son. I believe that Allah is a supreme being and that he has contacted us in many forms. However, I dont believe that I need to die in anyone's blood...
I don't care if you agree with it or not.
The fact that you can't agree with the Truth has no bearing on the Truth.
What you think cannot change the reality of who Jesus really is,
and by the way who appointed you as the great spokesman for faith?
You say Allah is a supreme being???? "a" supreme being????
You imply there is more than one.
Sadly, you are even more confused than enfield.
You should preach your "peaceful Islam" to terrorists, not BMW owners.
I'm done here, I don't like to argue religion. I hate religion. It's nothing but a system of works; that's why I gave up religion for a relationship with Christ.

"For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood."
Acts 20:28

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." John 14:6
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      08-11-2007, 03:23 PM   #425
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I don't care if you agree with it or not.
The fact that you can't agree with the Truth has no bearing on the Truth.
What you think cannot change the reality of who Jesus really is,
You dont care if I agree with it? Why dont you just answer the question. I mean, it's not like I'm making any pre-supposing statements. I am asking very logical questions that anyone studying the Bible would ask.

Quote:
and by the way who appointed you as the great spokesman for faith?
Who made me a spokesman? noone. Likewise, noone made you one. However, it is every Muslim's duty to educate people about Islam.

Quote:
You say Allah is a supreme being???? "a" supreme being????
You imply there is more than one.
Sadly, you are even more confused than enfield.
I imply that there is more than one "supreme being"? You are just playing on words. You know fine well that nowhere in the Quran will you ever find any phrase that mentions more than one God. Dont be stupid and try attack Islam with this. I merely pointed out that the arabic word "Allah" cannot be made in plural form neither can it be given a gender. Infact, the word "Allah" literally translates as "the only one to worship".

But anyway, for your level of understanding, I change my statement from "a supreme being" to "the supreme being". I hope this rests your mind.


Quote:
You should preach your "peaceful Islam" to terrorists, not BMW owners.
Incase you hadnt known, this is the Politics/Religion board. But ah yes, you would like to show what YOU want people to perceive Islam as. Then when I show you any verse that shows how peaceful Islam is, you say you wont change your mind? you tell me who is more confused
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      08-13-2007, 12:45 AM   #426
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Here is an entire website written by ex-Muslims, this may shed some light for any Muslim who desires to leave the terrible teachings and violent culture of Islam, I encourage you all to read these links, and I pray you see the light of God's salvation, peace.

http://islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm
http://islam-watch.org/index.html

and more great sites dedicated to providing Muslims with hope:
http://www.muslimhope.com/

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/howtobesaved.htm
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      08-13-2007, 03:35 AM   #427
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Originally Posted by FloridaBoy View Post
Here is an entire website written by ex-Muslims, this may shed some light for any Muslim who desires to leave the terrible teachings and violent culture of Islam, I encourage you all to read these links, and I pray you see the light of God's salvation, peace.

http://islam-watch.org/IW/aboutus.htm
http://islam-watch.org/index.html

and more great sites dedicated to providing Muslims with hope:
http://www.muslimhope.com/

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Basics/howtobesaved.htm
Wow, thanks for that, you just completely ignored what I said. But then again, it's not the first time you have done that and other people have complained. I'm not even going to look at what you showed me for 2 reasons:

1. You ignored me completely and failed to address any points/questions raised.

2. For every website you show me about muslims converting to christianity, I could show you a 1000 more about christians converting to christianity. Think Yusuf Estes, Dr. Bilal Philips and thousands more!

Anyway, thanks for showing your true colours. When people raise misconceptions about Islam, I usually try to answer them to the best of my knowledge OR go research it since I am still young and a learning muslim. That said, I do know my religion very well. However, I gave you an opportunity to explain something and you ignored it twice!

I also noticed you didnt reply to Enfield's post about the video. I was busy but at least I replied. You didnt. Instead you just posted this same post I am replying to at the moment!
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      08-13-2007, 11:02 AM   #428
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You seem to think my posts are directed at you, they are not.
I sense you are a devout person, but take a deep breath and realize this; not everyone on Earth believes what you believe. You present your views, I present mine, let people decide for themselves. Jesus stand at the door and knocks, He does not force his way and neither should we.

This thread was started by an atheist who attacked Christianity, Islam and Jews.
It seems to me that any of those faiths should have a free voice here including mine.
I already told you I am not here to argue. The Holy Bible teaches us that only fools argue and I do not want to offend anyone. The fact is; my posts are not even directed at any one person in particular, but if others are going to attack the diety of Christ and the sacrifice of God's Only Begotten Son and the things Christians believe, then I am certainly entitled to present an opposing viewpoint.

I am merely giving others an opportunity to hear another view of Islam. Sometimes the best way to reach Muslims is by presenting the views of former Muslims. All Muslims deserve to know the truth about the culture of hate and intolerance that runs hand in hand with Islam; if they want to leave Islam that is THEIR CHOICE, no matter what their family or the Taliban or anyone else thinks. All Muslims deserve the freedom and love that Jesus promises. All deserve the chance to hear the message of God's great love for them. I am merely shining the light from the top of the hill. Peace.

More testimonies from former Muslims:
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/index.html
http://www.answering-islam.de/Main/T...ies/index.html

The problem with intolerance:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...inst_chri.html
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      08-13-2007, 03:55 PM   #429
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Much of what you said you said in the other thread. Here was my reply:

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You dont want to offend anyone? my friend, whenever anyone presents information or an arguement you insult them by saying they are "confused" etc! I always say things in an appropriate manner. Ask UncleWede how many times I tell him that I say things with respect. Just because someone is making a point that goes against your beliefs, that doesnt mean we are being disrespectful.

Also, I'm not here to argue senslessly. I am only here to have a friendly dialogue between the many faiths of the world. I was merely asking you questions that I want to have answers to and you have STILL failed to answer! Many users have complained about you because you dont reply to people's questions. Why dont you comment about Enfields video? I mean, it is mostly directed towards Christianity.

You then go on to say: "I am merely giving others an opportunity to hear another view of Islam." This is my point. You are merely showing people what you want them to know. When I point out flaws in Christianity, I always mention what I agree with and what I think is the truth in Christianity. However, you point Islam out to be violent in every way which is not true.

Also, you said "All Muslims deserve to know the truth about the culture of hate and intolerance that runs hand in hand with Islam". You are so misleading because culture is different from religion. People use religion to justify disgusting cultures. People like you then use this to argue that Islam is falsehood and evil in every way.

Then you decide to STILL show what ex-muslims say about Islam. Didnt you hear what I said? I could show you so much about people going from Christianity to Islam. But it is beside the point. I study the faiths themselves, but you always study the PEOPLE following the faiths. That's why me and you are so different.
You did make another point in the post above that not everyone believe what I do. Of course they dont. But you do not seem to be a fair person. When I discuss with other Christians I praise the parts of Christianity which I believe are Jesus' original teachings and not the corrupted ones!

However, you do not deal with this same fairness. You only point out what you want to. Let's also note that what you post is based on so-called muslims who dont follow Islam and do terrible things in the name of Islam. You also base it on people who go from Islam to Christianity. I already explained that I could do vice-versa and we would achieve nothing. Moreover, I want to examine the religions, not the people "following" them.
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      08-16-2007, 05:22 PM   #430
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I am noticing that there is no difference between Christian and Muslim Fanatics. Both claim to be right. Both tell the other that they will burn in hell. Both know better and anyone else. By golly!!

FloridaBoy is as extreme as what he claims he is fighting. At least the Muslims on this thread are kind and haven't called my soul "wretched".
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      08-16-2007, 06:42 PM   #431
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I am noticing that there is no difference between Christian and Muslim Fanatics. Both claim to be right. Both tell the other that they will burn in hell. Both know better and anyone else. By golly!!

FloridaBoy is as extreme as what he claims he is fighting. At least the Muslims on this thread are kind and haven't called my soul "wretched".
LOL, well yes your soul is just as wretched as mine was without Christ. God is no respector of persons and that includes you. The good news is; He still loves you! Hey look on the bright side; at least I didn't call you an
infidel!
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      08-16-2007, 07:11 PM   #432
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Floridaboy, I understand where you're coming from and what you're trying to say. I was in the same boat. However, it is through demeaning others, regardless of where they put your faith, that you already go against the very faith you believe.

You have a relationship with Jesus? Then love your neighbors. It is through finger-pointing and bad mouthing other people that Jesus' nature is twisted in the eyes of others. If we are to be His salt and light of the Earth, we must love others as we would love ourselves.

If you do not believe in a religion, but rather have a relationship with Christ as you say, evangelism cannot be through words or with the sword, but rather through the outward expression of love, compassion, and joy that Christ has brought into your life. Any other means, and in essence, you're just making us look bad!

It is hard for me to call myself a Christian because of all the negative connotations associated with the word and preconceptions that people have about Christians. I also further separate myself from many mainstream Christians by believing many of John Calvin's teachings, but that's a separate discussion in and of itself.

At the very core, however, I believe there is a God, who is loving and kind, yet also just and through His justice, salvation cannot be our choice, since we are born sinful and would never choose God (Romans 3:10-12). Because of this, it is God that chooses, and because I believe this, I can love all people, regardless of their faith because that is what I am called to do. It is not up to me to "convince" people of God's existence, Jesus' divinity, etc. nor to force them to believe them, and even worse to shun them for not believing.

We are called to be a city on a hill, a light that cannot be hidden. Learn to love people, regardless of how different they are, or what they believe. That is a greater expression and evidence of your relationship with Jesus than any words you may speak.
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      08-16-2007, 08:38 PM   #433
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LOL, well yes your soul is just as wretched as mine was without Christ. God is no respector of persons and that includes you. The good news is; He still loves you! Hey look on the bright side; at least I didn't call you an
infidel!
Well in that case I reject your God. If your God wants respect then your God needs to learn to respect.

I am a well respected physician in my community. I am respected because I respect others & not because I threaten to burn them till "the end of time."

I do not respect your God because your God is a threatening bully.

You are calling me/my soul wretched because I do not agree with you. I disagree with you, my friend. Go in peace and prosper. I wish you and your soul peace and prosperity.

By the way FloridaBoy. It is ironic that the Muslims on this forum have not called me an Infidel. You have though - by bringing it up. There was no need to. You also called my soul wretched. There was no need to do that either.

Last edited by enfield; 08-16-2007 at 09:10 PM.
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      08-16-2007, 08:56 PM   #434
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Does the disrespect of a person claiming to follow a God properly exemplify the characteristics and attributes of that God? If all Muslims felt that way, many of them would have turned away after 9/11 yet they understand that the words and actions of an ignorant few (or even many) does not mean they are accurately portraying the teachings or sayings of that particular faith.

I humbly apologize for FloridaBoy's words and accusations, for they are unfounded, yet grossly rooted within many Christians. It is a misunderstanding that dates back thousands of years.

I deeply respect Muslims, Christians, and Buddhists alike. My parents are Buddhists. Although I realize and affirm their differences, and I follow one, I do not see any good for anyone to continue to argue, bad mouth, and commit acts of violence in the name of "religion." All three of these religions are deeply rooted in treating the people around you with love and respect. I hope that the actions of few have not undermined your view of others, nor of the God of the Bible.
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      08-16-2007, 09:12 PM   #435
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fobunited
You present a message of tolerence and peace. I respect that my friend.
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      08-18-2007, 10:53 PM   #436
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I came across reading about a serial killer(who was a freak) on the internet who gave all his victims 30 minutes to pray and ask for their GOD to save them......

30 minutes gone by ------ they all died, none of their prayers were answered.

sorry for the .........
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      08-20-2007, 02:01 PM   #437
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Originally Posted by hks786 View Post
I cant agree with this. Parts of the Bible make it clear that we have to repent for our sins and that Jesus was here to preach, not to die for us. Jesus even said he completed his work long before his "crucifixion". Then other parts of the bible say that Jesus came to die for our sins and as long as we accept it, our sins are paid for. Which is it?
Not trying to argue ... just want to clear things up...
Can you be a little more specific on what you are quoting from the Bible...

For example. John 19:30 "So when Jesus had recieved the sour wine, He said, 'It is finished!' And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit"


I will be waiting for your response
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      08-20-2007, 02:04 PM   #438
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Originally Posted by NaTuReB0Y View Post
I came across reading about a serial killer(who was a freak) on the internet who gave all his victims 30 minutes to pray and ask for their GOD to save them......

30 minutes gone by ------ they all died, none of their prayers were answered.

sorry for the .........
How would you know if their prayers were answered or not??

A true believer( in Christ) does not fear physical death because eternal life awaits them.
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      08-20-2007, 05:12 PM   #439
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That's troublesome. It's like people who don't care what is happenning during the day because they hope to have fun in their dreams at night. Medical (psychiatric) care sometimes can help though.
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      08-20-2007, 07:34 PM   #440
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^^ intersting point

-makes me wonder if some of the people did come from a bunch of bateria since they love to destroy and conquer so much

funny how others resemble lions when they find something that another treasures and the rip (the treasure) apart... just for fun...
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