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      08-05-2011, 02:00 PM   #1
Finnegan
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HANS Recommendations

I know about zero on this subject other than a HANS type device is something most of us HPDE guys (and gals) ought to consider (in a addition to a good helmet). Basically from what I understand this can be the difference between walking away from an incident and never walking again (or worse). I'd rather skip a few track days and save up a bit to make sure that I'm protected.

Are there any of these type of devices that can be used with stock seats and seatbelts? Yes, I realize it's probably a good idea to get a 4 or 5 point belt, a proper "racing" seat, and possibly a cage. But for those of us who don't want to turn our cars into "track only" machines, or who need to approach things a bit stepwise (budget, track/street use of car, etc.), what options are there? Ideally I'd like something that provides HANS type protection with the stock seat/belts and which could also be used if/when I upgrade those components. But if that's not possible, then what are the requirements?

Recommendations and input would be appreciated!
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      08-05-2011, 03:34 PM   #2
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Unfortunately the HANS device requires a harness system and seats to work. The harnesses go over each side of the device which then tethers to the helmet. I've got a HANS Carbon Pro Series I use when I'm in other vehicles with a proper cage, but haven't made the step to turn the Z4M into a dedicated machine.-

Hans = harness = fixed seats = backhalf cage.
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      08-05-2011, 04:11 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onelove View Post
Unfortunately the HANS device requires a harness system and seats to work. The harnesses go over each side of the device which then tethers to the helmet. I've got a HANS Carbon Pro Series I use when I'm in other vehicles with a proper cage, but haven't made the step to turn the Z4M into a dedicated machine.-

Hans = harness = fixed seats = backhalf cage.
Thanks! I was afraid that was the case. I've got some thinking to do about tracking this car from a safety perspective long term.
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      08-06-2011, 12:13 AM   #4
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Like he said Hans and Defender require specific 5 or 6 point harnesses, plus a double shoulder strap (one strap over your sholder, other over the restraint device)

However there are other styles like the R3 that work independent of seatbelts.
check out saferacer.com or pegasusracing.com for other options.
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      08-06-2011, 12:56 AM   #5
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I've heard decent things about the R3 device. I know instructors like 'em because they can jump from car to car, regardless of harness setup, and have the protection. However, HANS is the original and is very much the king when it comes to this area of safety. Personally... I did the HANS=harnesses=seats=half-cage routine.
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      08-06-2011, 01:34 PM   #6
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Thanks guys! I'm going to look into the R3. I'm just not ready to go "full track" on the Z4M at this point, but I would like some additional safety options.
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      11-08-2011, 12:12 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Thanks guys! I'm going to look into the R3. I'm just not ready to go "full track" on the Z4M at this point, but I would like some additional safety options.
My feelings exactly.

I have just ordered a nice new Helmet for my track days.

Will post pictures soon.

You could always consider a simple Neck Support.



I would have thought that a good quality Helmet and Neck Support will offer you 99.9% of all the protection you will need for club sprints.

As it is your Streetcar you are driving I can't imaging you will be doing anything too silly to require more.
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      11-08-2011, 12:41 AM   #8
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^ I was going to suggest a neck support too Ron!
When we finally get to meet up, I'll show you the custom harness bar I put in my coupe
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      11-08-2011, 12:46 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANILE8 View Post
My feelings exactly.

I have just ordered a nice new Helmet for my track days.

Will post pictures soon.

You could always consider a simple Neck Support.


I would have thought that a good quality Helmet and Neck Support will offer you 99.9% of all the protection you will need for club sprints.

As it is your Streetcar you are driving I can't imaging you will be doing anything too silly to require more.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
^ I was going to suggest a neck support too Ron!
When we finally get to meet up, I'll show you the custom harness bar I put in my coupe
Thanks guys!

Lon, gotta meet up at some point! I see Laguna is totally sold out for 12/30 and 12/31. Thought John, me, you might meet up there--but it looks like we waited too long. Oh well, there's Jan, Feb, Mar....
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      11-08-2011, 01:03 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
^ I was going to suggest a neck support too Ron!
When we finally get to meet up, I'll show you the custom harness bar I put in my coupe
That sounds like a pretty serious modification.

To run a HANS device you need a Harness.

Then to run a Harness you need a Half Cage.

Then to run a Half Cage you need to destroy the interior.

Also you would need to change to fixed back racing seats to run a Harness.

Not a practical solution for a few track days by the sound of it.

Granted, the Neck Brace is nowhere near the same type of protection offered by a proper HANS but you must consider what it take to run one safely.
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      11-08-2011, 01:54 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Thanks guys!

Lon, gotta meet up at some point! I see Laguna is totally sold out for 12/30 and 12/31. Thought John, me, you might meet up there--but it looks like we waited too long. Oh well, there's Jan, Feb, Mar....
haha I'm taking a hiatus from tracking for a while unfortunately. Need more cash in the bank for now. Got a gf to take care of


Oh well...I suppose I've had enough fun these past couple of years. Maybe I'll start back up next summer!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANILE8 View Post
That sounds like a pretty serious modification.
haha I put in a harness bar only so as to have least intrusion possible. It was a custom-fabricated piece from a race shop in Canada, and I was lucky to have found an old thread from a random bimmer forum with an ex-Z4MC owner who had the race shop make the bar for him.
All I had to do was take off the b-pillar plastic trims (which are held in by two plastic plugs, so you just yank them outwards and they pop right out), enlarge the already pre-drilled factory holes, put in rivet-nuts (a.k.a. threaded inserts), and buy some grade 8 or higher bolts to fit the threading and voila!
I've yet to use my Sparco 6-point harness @ the track however
But the Sparco Pro2000 seat I've used a couple times already. Very plush
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      11-08-2011, 09:34 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
haha I put in a harness bar only so as to have least intrusion possible. It was a custom-fabricated piece from a race shop in Canada, and I was lucky to have found an old thread from a random bimmer forum with an ex-Z4MC owner who had the race shop make the bar for him.
All I had to do was take off the b-pillar plastic trims (which are held in by two plastic plugs, so you just yank them outwards and they pop right out), enlarge the already pre-drilled factory holes, put in rivet-nuts (a.k.a. threaded inserts), and buy some grade 8 or higher bolts to fit the threading and voila!
I've yet to use my Sparco 6-point harness @ the track however
But the Sparco Pro2000 seat I've used a couple times already. Very plush
I sent some emails to the shop in Atlanta who make that bar for the original poster, but they have never followed through.

Does the shop who made your bar have a set of plans that they make up? or can/will they make another bar and send it out?????

I really, really want one....
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      11-08-2011, 11:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
......
haha I put in a harness bar only so as to have least intrusion possible. It was a custom-fabricated piece from a race shop in Canada, and I was lucky to have found an old thread from a random bimmer forum with an ex-Z4MC owner who had the race shop make the bar for him.
.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shipkiller View Post
.....
Does the shop who made your bar have a set of plans that they make up? or can/will they make another bar and send it out?????

I really, really want one....
Canada you say????
I'd love more details on this too.
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      11-08-2011, 01:13 PM   #14
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The guy that I bought from runs a shop called Scan Automotive. But he told me that he had another shop fabricate the bar for him, and that shop was called Specialty Engineering or something like that.

Basically, the end plates conform to the countours of the inner b-pillars (with the plastic covers off). From there, the two factory clip holes are exposed, as well as the b-pillar's sheet metal. This is where we finally put in our rivet-nuts, which allow threaded inserts to be put in securely without ever needing access to the back side of the sheet metal.
Here's a nice video to give you an idea of how rivet-nuts (a.k.a. threaded inserts) work:


What I did was enlarge the factory holes, so that I could put in a thicker threaded insert, the thickest I could find.
The trick is to find a rivet-nut gun or tool that can pull the threaded insert back through and tighten it securely so that it does not rotate inside the hole created. And the rest is as easy as matching a bolt's thread pitch to the pitch of the insert you put in
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      11-08-2011, 01:55 PM   #15
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Thanks.
Scan Auto is in Vancouver, it would have been too easy if they were in Toronto
Speciality Engineering is in the same area
...Maybe I'll get in touch with them 1st to see if I can buy direct.


I've used those type of fasteners before with GT-Spec chassis braces, they work great!

Any chance you could post a few pics of your installed bar?
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      11-08-2011, 04:04 PM   #16
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I would not suggest installing a 4/5/6 point harness in a car that does not have
at least a half cage. In a roll over these belts may increase the risk of injury if
the roof collapses (they hold you in an upright position)
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      11-08-2011, 04:19 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BookerM3 View Post
I would not suggest installing a 4/5/6 point harness in a car that does not have
at least a half cage. In a roll over these belts may increase the risk of injury if
the roof collapses (they hold you in an upright position)
good point.
I recall a previous discussion about that.

I just wish there was a way to avoid tearing out he interior.
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      11-08-2011, 06:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BookerM3 View Post
I would not suggest installing a 4/5/6 point harness in a car that does not have
at least a half cage. In a roll over these belts may increase the risk of injury if
the roof collapses (they hold you in an upright position)
Some clarification: 5 and 6 pt require rollover support. A 4 point does not as it still allows you to submarine and will not hold you upright in your seat with the anti-sub straps. As per Scroth, a 4 (and likewise 5 and 6) point should not be installed with the type of seat Z4s have, as routing the 2 shoulder straps around the headrest of the stock seat allow you to "push through" through the two straps in a front collision.

Image on the top left of the 3rd page, subsection 2. You can see our seats most closely resemble the one all the way to the right. I'm not sure if mounting the outside shoulder strap through the bracket would help, but that would require removing the stock 3 pt belt and at that point your car is no longer street legal anyway.

http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/docs/Ra...structions.pdf

So to run just a harness bar, you should have a fixed back seat with a 4pt harness. To run 5 and 6 pt harness, you need rollover protection in addition to the harness mount and racing seat.

Also, most organizations require equivalency for passengers. This means that basically whatever the driver has, the passenger must have as well. I'm not sure if this rules out a racing seat with the stock 3pt for the driver, and the stock seat with the 3pt for the passenger. But for 4,5,6pt harnesses, the passenger has to have equal safety accommodations.

Edit: I was under the impression that removing the factory restraint system rendered the car illegal for street use, but it appears the Scroth Rallye 4pts have DOT approval (DOT FMVSS 209). So for people wanting to retain their streetability and street legality, a harness bar with DOT approved 4 pts and proper seating (for both driver and passenger) may be the way to go. Keep in mind the costs of replacing the passenger seat with a racing seat and not tampering with the SRS system...buying a new occupancy sensor ($$) or tearing into your passenger seat to reuse that one.

Last edited by BTM; 11-08-2011 at 06:51 PM.
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      11-08-2011, 09:00 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
Any chance you could post a few pics of your installed bar?
Sure, I'll take a few pix and upload them here in this thread
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      11-08-2011, 09:08 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Sure, I'll take a few pix and upload them here in this thread
thanks
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      11-08-2011, 09:32 PM   #21
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i had the opportunity to see a track dedicated M coupe at a recent track event. He had a nice half cage designed out in Ohio that retained the stock interior (inc. access to the bulkhead space/door) as well as retaining full trunk space. ...this is the route I'm going to pursue

I have pics on my phone of said car, they are not great but proof it can be done.
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      11-08-2011, 09:37 PM   #22
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Quote:
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i had the opportunity to see a track dedicated M coupe at a recent track event. He had a nice half cage designed out in Ohio that retained the stock interior (inc. access to the bulkhead space/door) as well as retaining full trunk space. ...this is the route I'm going to pursue

I have pics on my phone of said car, they are not great but proof it can be done.
That would be great!!
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