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      06-02-2011, 11:28 PM   #23
boydgti
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Wow im surprised
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      06-03-2011, 09:51 AM   #24
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Big fan! Is there any ability to have the wing sit lower? By maybe 4-6 inches?

My car is about as track prepped as you can get -- half-cage, harnesses, race buckets, etc -- but I still think having a big wing like that on the street (yes, I do drive on the street) is a bit out of place. On the track, AWESOME. Motoring around city streets, meh...
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      06-03-2011, 09:59 AM   #25
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Great for the track but I think a little big for the road.
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      06-03-2011, 04:18 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Really? On a track prepped car like this one that actually sees the track?

I agree that on a street car it looks plain silly and downright comedic, but if you're serious about tracking a functional splitter and wing provide some documented benefits (seen here with forum member's track times and entrance/exit speeds through corners).
I have yet to experience the need for any significant aero work on this car and I've seen north of 145mph on the banked portion of California Speedway.

IMO (here we go again), unless there are significant weight reduction from both ends, this car does not need aerodynamic aid since the drag will reduce the available HP, and at 330 you're going to need every HP you've got to move 3,400+ lbs (trust me, unless you weight 120 lbs, the car is going to be over 3,400+ lbs). Club racers that ran any sort of significant wing(s) like this typically weight in at around 2,600 lbs or less with driver, and has enough power AND grip to require down-force.

Frankly, these wings on anything outside of cars modified for competition, are mostly for looks only. Very few will be going at 90mph+ through a turn only to find that their car is too light to have any significant grip on either end.
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      06-03-2011, 04:28 PM   #27
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Thats what I was thinking also
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      06-03-2011, 05:17 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
Big fan! Is there any ability to have the wing sit lower? By maybe 4-6 inches?
Check out the Varis hyper narrow wing, it sits much lower.

Hack, how do you feel about front splitters?
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      06-03-2011, 06:53 PM   #29
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Thats what I was thinking also
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      06-04-2011, 12:02 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beta View Post
Hack, how do you feel about front splitters?
Again, it's simple. At 3,200 lbs these cars don't have any significant need for down-force. There's not enough lift on either end at speed to really have the need.

Where any form of splitter/endplate/giant wing will come in handy, is when you're competing with a heavily modified car with a lot of weight reduction AND fat ss tires. When you have this particular combination, like 500-600 lbs removed from this car, with a ton of power, you CAN and will experience loss of traction and some of that negative effect of aerodynamics causing loss of grip (since less weight = less grip).

In practical terms? They're useless for 99.9% of the population. Heck they're probably useless unless you get to the Modified class in BMW CCA Club Race, or some of the "unlimited" classes where massive weight reductions are allowed with CF panels and lexan glasses and completely stripped cars. However, with a front splitter, there IS less drag penalty compared to giant rear wings, so you'll see a lot of Prepared class cars run them because, well, every bit of added grip helps. So if we're strictly talking about the splitters up front, or extended end plates, they're certainly more helpful than full-on wings.

But they (wings and splitters) sure look good. I'd rock it whether or not they improve my lap times.
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      06-04-2011, 12:48 AM   #31
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I'm not looking to get into a pissing match here, but I kinda have to take issue with a few of your points, on both an academic and practical sense. I agree with you that most people don't need aero on their cars, but that said, some of your points are sweeping generalizations, and distract from what I think you are trying to get at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Again, it's simple. At 3,200 lbs these cars don't have any significant need for down-force. There's not enough lift on either end at speed to really have the need.

Where any form of splitter/endplate/giant wing will come in handy, is when you're competing with a heavily modified car with a lot of weight reduction AND fat ss tires. When you have this particular combination, like 500-600 lbs removed from this car, with a ton of power, you CAN and will experience loss of traction and some of that negative effect of aerodynamics causing loss of grip (since less weight = less grip).

In practical terms? They're useless for 99.9% of the population. Heck they're probably useless unless you get to the Modified class in BMW CCA Club Race, or some of the "unlimited" classes where massive weight reductions are allowed with CF panels and lexan glasses and completely stripped cars. However, with a front splitter, there IS less drag penalty compared to giant rear wings, so you'll see a lot of Prepared class cars run them because, well, every bit of added grip helps. So if we're strictly talking about the splitters up front, or extended end plates, they're certainly more helpful than full-on wings.

But they (wings and splitters) sure look good. I'd rock it whether or not they improve my lap times.
The proper application of downforce, in street and race cars, isn't necessarily implemented to negate lift. It is often used as a tuning mechanism to open up other tuning options, i.e. shock valving and settings, spring rates, swaybar stiffness, etc.

As someone with a fairly in-depth knowledge of car setup and tuning, the tuning options available to a car with aero greatly outweigh the options of a car without. Especially because once you start spending the money to get a functional wing (APR, Voltex, Varis, etc) you can always change the AOA of the wing.
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      06-11-2011, 04:55 PM   #32
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Not really a fan of the huge wing but if it actually serves a purpose then I give a thumbs up.

I am finally able to see a black Z4M with black TE37s and must say I do not like the look at all. Not trying to be a jerk but I had not seen one lowered and I almost bought a set and will not be buying a set now. CE28s look a lot better on this car IMO.

Thanks for the pictures.
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      06-18-2011, 01:46 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
Big fan! Is there any ability to have the wing sit lower? By maybe 4-6 inches?

My car is about as track prepped as you can get -- half-cage, harnesses, race buckets, etc -- but I still think having a big wing like that on the street (yes, I do drive on the street) is a bit out of place. On the track, AWESOME. Motoring around city streets, meh...
Yes we can order shorter stands so the wing does not sit as high up.

PM me for more details.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayZ4C View Post
Great for the track but I think a little big for the road.
Smaller profile/shorter wing stands are available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I have yet to experience the need for any significant aero work on this car and I've seen north of 145mph on the banked portion of California Speedway.

IMO (here we go again), unless there are significant weight reduction from both ends, this car does not need aerodynamic aid since the drag will reduce the available HP, and at 330 you're going to need every HP you've got to move 3,400+ lbs (trust me, unless you weight 120 lbs, the car is going to be over 3,400+ lbs). Club racers that ran any sort of significant wing(s) like this typically weight in at around 2,600 lbs or less with driver, and has enough power AND grip to require down-force.

Frankly, these wings on anything outside of cars modified for competition, are mostly for looks only. Very few will be going at 90mph+ through a turn only to find that their car is too light to have any significant grip on either end.
Club racers don't run crazy aero b/c they have class rules to follow by. I don't understand why BMW track guys compare to chassis/aero/suspension setup to a club racer car. Their cars are built to run in each class, that is why there isn't huge aero, and suspensions with external reserviors are not allow. If your aero argument is valid then no one should run Moton/JRZ external reservoirs since club racers don't?

If you look at time attack cars they all run as much aero as allowed in their classing, even in street class where the contenders are privateers with low budgets. Aero is effective regardless of the power output, your cornering speeds are faster, thus you carry more speed throughout the whole track. A good example is a Honda S2000's with ~190whp turning 1:57's on street tires at BW CW13.

A wing/splitter setup on my 3300lb M3 at 280whp gained me roughly 5 seconds at BW CW13, same tires/brakes/driver.

The argument of weight/power vs drag maybe valid on a long straight but even then it would be a coin flip since with aero your cornering speeds are higher so upon corner exit the aero equipped car will be at a higher speed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by beta View Post
Check out the Varis hyper narrow wing, it sits much lower.

Hack, how do you feel about front splitters?
Varis hyper narrow is also produced by Voltex, its also much cheaper than the Varis units.

All Varis does is make stands/mounts for cars and they label it theirs.
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      10-31-2011, 04:13 PM   #34
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I would have gone bigger.



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      11-03-2011, 01:44 PM   #35
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Winged ///M

No no no no head lowered shaking head back and forth no no no no
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      11-11-2011, 01:14 AM   #36
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Just when I thought I had seen it all.

When do you turn 21?
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      11-29-2011, 05:32 PM   #37
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wing seems slightly on the high side IMHO - i'd go lower...

nice work though..
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      12-12-2011, 09:55 PM   #38
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That looks mean, dude. NiCE>
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      12-14-2011, 05:41 AM   #39
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Awesome look, how i hate the german TÜV (mean guys who say "no" to every parts which look nice).
But why is there a german license plate under the american? Big mistake to sell your car with your license plate :/
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