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      10-17-2010, 07:38 PM   #1
Finnegan
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Comparison of 07 Z4M to 07 Cayman S

Okay, I promised a compare at some point, so after several weeks of driving the Cayman S I can offer a pretty good comparison. Let me say right from the start that I do not have a favorite. Set aside all other issues and focusing on how much fun they are to drive they're about equal. They're different in how they supply that fun, but both of them bring a smile to my face whenever I drive them.

Okay, here we go....

The Cars and Stats


07 Z4M with CDV, RE transmission mounts, 18” 235/265 Star Specs, -1.5 front camber and -2.0 rear (toe front .02 and rear .2 IIRC), stock dampers and springs, Eisenmann sport exhaust. No other mods.

Gen I 07 Cayman S 6MT with CDV (Porsche electronic version), 19” 235/265 PS2s, -.5 front camber and -1.5 rear camber (toe front .04 and rear .08 ). No PASM (Porsche Active Suspension Management—just springs and dampers). Note: camber plates in transit! Just like the Z4M this car pushes like mad with the silly stock camber settings....

Balance/Suspension
Cayman > Z4M
The Cayman is less nervous than the Z4M and more composed—especially on less-than-perfect pavement (e.g. not the track). This is especially true in corners where a bump mid-corner or going over rises (where the suspension loads and unloads) upsets the Z4M. In the Cayman it's a “meh” moment—while in the Z4M it's unsettling. The Cayman simply has the best balance of anything I've ever been in—it's predictable and balanced and responsive. The Z4M is a bit more twitchy. On roads with less than desirable surfaces (bumps) the Cayman hunkers down better whereas the Z4M tends to get a lot of “bounce” with the rubber spending less time on the payment than the Cayman. I haven't had either to the track, but I'd assume that in a smoother environment the differences would be much less obvious (with the exception of sections of track where the Z4M might get “light”).

Daily Driver
Cayman > Z4M
Well, Skelekitty will probably disagree with me, but I'd pick the Cayman here, but not by a large margin. The ride quality, even with the 19s (which most people find “too harsh”) doesn't fatigue me as much as the Z4M. Maybe I'm just getting old! Neither car could be considered as a "comfort focused" car...the general public would find either far to harsh as a DD--but we don't give a rat's *** about them do we. A Cayman with PASM offers a lot of comfort (but at a price of course)--but that's really outside the scope of this comparison.

Steering
Cayman = Z4M
Both are wonderful and offer excellent feedback. The Z4M is a bit over caffeinated and the Cayman S is less nervous. This may give the Cayman S a slight edge. I prefer the beefier steering wheel on the Z4M, and a future mod will be a GT3 (thicker) steering wheel--but that's a personal preference. Note: The Cayman S' PS pump can overheat on the track if you run wider tires, a lot of camber, or in very hot conditions. The Gen II car doesn't have this issue at all.

Brakes
Cayman = Z4M
The Cayman has multi-pot brakes, and for a few bucks you can add GT3 cooling ducts if you need them. The pedal feel is much more progressive (and much firmer) than the Z4M's brakes which is something I prefer. However, some folks have had issues with total brake lock out on the track with the Cayman ("ice pedal"). Best folks can come up with is that the traction control/ABS gets "confused" and freezes things up. Not confidence inspiring. I haven't heard of that happening with the Z4M.

Differential
Z4M > Cayman (Gen II LSD is not robust, essentially gone after a few thousand miles; Gen I is open diff). There are options TBD (Quaife) and LSD (Guard) that I believe run about 2K for the Cayman S.

Cabin and Storage Space
Cayman > Z4M
The Cayman has a large hatch area, front trunk, and a massive amount of storage space in the cabin (armrests are storage areas, the glove box is huge—the Porsche manuals which are larger than those for the Z4M fit with room to spare for a lot of other things). The interior is less enclosed and there's more room for larger/taller drivers (me).

Engine
Z4M > Cayman
The S54, especially in it's final form in the Z4M is pretty much bulletproof. The engine has 8K vs. 7K revs to play with. Take care or it and it will take care of you. The Cayman does have issues to be aware of. Early 06 models had IMS (intermediate shaft) issues. The 06, 07, and 08 engines have oiling issues that largely seem to manifest themselves at the track (especially with mods that allow the car to pull higher Gs). Issue I is the VOS (oil air separator) that may cause the engine to ingest oil. Most often this is simply a puff of smoke, but it may lead to more severe problems (oil starvation and hydrolock). Issue II is an oil-pump/starvation issue which may lead to engine failure. I'm not saying casual track use with a stock suspension set-up will cause your engine to fail--that appears not to be the case. However there's some risk. It's believed that these issues can be addressed with extended sumps, new oil-pan with external/extra oil pump/return, modified VOS. Note: aside from the Turbo and GT3, all 996 and 997s (and of course Boxsters) have these oiling issues to some degree. The DFI engine in the current generation seems to have addressed this as they designed in much better oiling systems. So be aware of that and go in with your eyes open.

Clutch/Shifting
Z4M = Cayman
The Cayman likes to stall in 1st if you don't get the throttle/engagement just right. (I've stalled it 8 times in 6 weeks—I haven't stalled a MT in 20 years—finally have the hang of it. This isn't a clutch issue as much as a throttle issue--it's hard to modulate at low revs.) The Z4M with CDV has that notchy feel and 1st to 2nd grind if you don't pull down and left and denial 3rd to 2nd w/o transmission mounts. The Cayman shifts more smoothly and the feel is a lot better--really good in fact. Where does that leave us? Well, neither is perfect and both have a few quirks. But heck, would either be a sports car w/o a quirk or two? I do like the gearing of the Z4M a bit better as the Cayman is geared too tall in 1st and 2nd (conspiracy theorists contend this was to keep the gap between it and the Carrera noticeable).

$$$

Z4M > Cayman S
The Z4M runs about 10K less than a used Gen I Cayman S. For that 10K, you can buy a BBK, probably add some brake ducting, and a coil-over suspension and still come out ahead. Max camber on the non-PASM Cayman is -.8 (or less), which leaves plates (~400) or GT3 LCAs (1,200+). The Turner kit @30 bucks or some washers gets you all the camber you'll need on the Z4M. If you buy a Gen I like I did and you're looking to make it a hardcore track machine (lots of camber, R comps, GT3 parts, coils) you're looking at somewhere around ~4K to have a car that you can track and not worry about (TTP Oilsafe kit + Motorsport VOS).

Fun
Z4M = Cayman S
Both are a blast to drive. I really find it hard to say one is “best”. They approach the same question (e.g. being a “sports car”) from very different directions. It really matters on my mood and to some degree which road I'm going to drive. The Z4M demands more from the driver—you have to focus 100%--but it gives a lot back in return. The Cayman is more forgiving and seems to inspire more confidence with its mode of attack. But in terms of fun? Toss up!

Bottom Line
If you're planning on tracking your car extensively, or making serious mods and are a highly skilled driver, the Gen II Cayman S is really the way to go. This car is used for spec racing and it's pretty much proven there. I'm still not convinced about DFI largely due to the HPFP issues and carbon build up question, but the oiling and PS issues have been worked out and the car is more "race car" ready. But that's going to cost you—the Z4M even with upgrades to “weak points” (brakes, brake cooling) is probably a cheaper alternative as a track car. As a canyon carver or daily driver, the Cayman S may offer some advantages.

Postscript/Follow-up
I sold the Cayman a mere 7 months after buying it. I contracted the track addiction, and the risks of driving the Cayman a the track (engine, ice-pedal, and power steering system melting) just didn't inspire confidence. I find that I don't miss the Cayman at all and love every minute of owning and driving my Z4M on the street and on the track.
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Last edited by Finnegan; 07-13-2011 at 01:54 AM..
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      10-17-2010, 08:21 PM   #2
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lol cute dog.
Nice write-up!
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      10-17-2010, 08:28 PM   #3
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You forgot to mention aesthetics!

Nice read! I'm so envious that you have the best of both worlds with your cars.
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      10-17-2010, 08:28 PM   #4
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Pretty much a word for word repeat of what the car magazine reviews said four years ago. So, since most owners don't go to the track, the comparison really comes down to which features you prefer on each car and whether you feel the Porsche is worth the extra dollars.

You left out interior and exterior styling. I consider that a draw, with the Porsche interior better and the Z4 exterior better.
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      10-17-2010, 08:29 PM   #5
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Great post! Review doesnt get any better coming from someone that have owned both cars.

I should do a Elise vs Z4M comparison too if there is sufficent interest.
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      10-17-2010, 08:41 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car62 View Post
Pretty much a word for word repeat of what the car magazine reviews said four years ago. So, since most owners don't go to the track, the comparison really comes down to which features you prefer on each car and whether you feel the Porsche is worth the extra dollars.

You left out interior and exterior styling. I consider that a draw, with the Porsche interior better and the Z4 exterior better.
Yeah, I left that out--wasn't the review long enough?!

It was intention, I was focused more on driving dynamics than styling. I'll second your opinion, interior is a draw except in terms of space. The stock surround sound system in the Cayman is a bit better, but the Nav in the Z4M is better (I didn't bother with a Nav as it's so bad it's not funny). The seat bolsters are a bit more robust in the Z4M as well, but that's a bit offset by the fact the Cayman's seats are a better fit for larger/taller folks....
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      10-17-2010, 08:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car62 View Post
Pretty much a word for word repeat of what the car magazine reviews said four years ago. So, since most owners don't go to the track, the comparison really comes down to which features you prefer on each car and whether you feel the Porsche is worth the extra dollars.

You left out interior and exterior styling. I consider that a draw, with the Porsche interior better and the Z4 exterior better.
The track issue with the Cayman doesn't become much of an issue unless you get uber camber happy, run wider tires or R comps, or otherwise mod the suspension to pull higher Gs.

There's a good thread on this over on Planet-9--a instructor level driver at Thunderhill put 40K miles and 95 track sessions on a totally stock Gen I--not an issue to speak of.

Let me tell you it makes me a feel a lot better as now have no qualms about running a DE. I'm a total track noob and I'm just going to get some moderate camber up front....

Last edited by Finnegan; 10-17-2010 at 09:02 PM..
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      10-17-2010, 08:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Hunter View Post
You forgot to mention aesthetics!

Nice read! I'm so envious that you have the best of both worlds with your cars.
Yeah...I did. Seriously, what has a nicer ass than the Z4M???
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      10-17-2010, 08:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
I agree with what most of what you said having both, except the steering in the cayman S is def better. Its right up there with GTX Porsches. I also dont think the z4m can touch the organic feel of the clutch/gearbox in the cayman S.
Generation 2 cayman S is in a different league.
Does your cayman S not have the sports chrono? With it and sport engage its revs to 7400.
No, no SC. But the SC is now available via a button retrofit which I'll probably get.

My only beef with the clutch/gearbox is 1st. The feel in the other gears is just perfect IMO--it's like I'd been driving this car forever within seconds of driving it. So I'm probably scoring a bit low due to the initial irritation with 1st in my initial few weeks....

So, Gen II is that much better? That must be unbelievably good. I didn't test the Gen II as I needed to stay in budget on this endeavor--you know, don't taste of the forbidden fruit and all that.

Steering in terms of feel, there's an edge to the Cayman. They're both darn good and far better than most anything you can buy these days, but the Cayman does have an edge. I was probably too harsh on the PS issue.

I'll modify the initial post to reflect these additional reflections.

Last edited by Finnegan; 10-17-2010 at 09:02 PM..
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      10-17-2010, 09:08 PM   #10
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finnegan, what an adorable dog u have! wonderful write-up and it was very driver-oriented indeed. i happened upon a white cayman-s with a techart bodykit two weekends back and it looked menacing!
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      10-17-2010, 09:26 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shift@red View Post
SC is def worth it.
I was just talking about gen 1...still better IMO.
On the to-do list!

Quote:
Originally Posted by r4gs View Post
finnegan, what an adorable dog u have! wonderful write-up and it was very driver-oriented indeed. i happened upon a white cayman-s with a techart bodykit two weekends back and it looked menacing!
I like the Techart kits. Man, the mod-monkey is so easy to fall prey too!

Thanks. That's Abby. She's a Jack Russell someone had dumped out in the wild. We found on a hike two years ago covered in ticks, malnourished, not spayed, no chip, and with extensive shock-collar scars on her neck. We'd never had a dog before and didn't intend to keep her--for about 4 hours that is--then there was no way we were getting rid of her!

You could not ask for a better behaved and sweeter dog than her. We could not have found a better dog...when Skelekitty and I first met her we asked "where are your people" and she wagged her tail and looked up at us (no doubt thinking "I'm looking at them"). We have no idea how we lived this long without a dog.

Not only is she well behaved (used as a model training dog from time to time) but she loves sports cars and driving fast! Many months ago before I bought the Cayman, as we were walking out to the parking lot from the pet store she walked over to a Cayman S' passenger door and dug in. My "well behaved" dog wanted to get in the Cayman and did not want to get into my beat up DD! Apparently she has quite an opinion on cars--and she never warmed up to the M3 (always wanted to get in the Z4M). She actually did laps around the Cayman when I brought it home--so apparently it has the "Abby seal of approval". She also loves driving in the Z4M in her Kurgo skybox...where she keeps an eye on other drivers and growls if someone starts to come into your lane.
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      10-17-2010, 10:22 PM   #12
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As an owner of both a 2006 Cayman S and 2006 Z4M roadster, I completely agree with your detailed asessment, but would go even further on the balance/suspension and rate the Cayman S overwhelmingly better than the BMW under autocross conditions. The Cayman is amazingly well balanced and does everything you ask it to do while the Z4M pushes heavily and can be a handful under acceleration. The Cayman's brakes are so much better that my first upgrade for the Z4M will likely be some stoptechs.
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      10-17-2010, 10:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
Thanks. That's Abby. She's a Jack Russell someone had dumped out in the wild. We found on a hike two years ago covered in ticks, malnourished, not spayed, no chip, and with extensive shock-collar scars on her neck. We'd never had a dog before and didn't intend to keep her--for about 4 hours that is--then there was no way we were getting rid of her!

You could not ask for a better behaved and sweeter dog than her. We could not have found a better dog...when Skelekitty and I first met her we asked "where are your people" and she wagged her tail and looked up at us (no doubt thinking "I'm looking at them"). We have no idea how we lived this long without a dog.

Not only is she well behaved (used as a model training dog from time to time) but she loves sports cars and driving fast! Many months ago before I bought the Cayman, as we were walking out to the parking lot from the pet store she walked over to a Cayman S' passenger door and dug in. My "well behaved" dog wanted to get in the Cayman and did not want to get into my beat up DD! Apparently she has quite an opinion on cars--and she never warmed up to the M3 (always wanted to get in the Z4M). She actually did laps around the Cayman when I brought it home--so apparently it has the "Abby seal of approval". She also loves driving in the Z4M in her Kurgo skybox...where she keeps an eye on other drivers and growls if someone starts to come into your lane.
wow, tt's a dog with a very peculiar character indeed! i have grown up with dogs my entire life, and they are among the most loyal and constant companions man can ever befriend. how does abby sit in the m coupe with the two of u in it!?
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      10-17-2010, 10:42 PM   #14
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great read. love the photo of the dog!!
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      10-17-2010, 10:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan28 View Post
As an owner of both a 2006 Cayman S and 2006 Z4M roadster, I completely agree with your detailed asessment, but would go even further on the balance/suspension and rate the Cayman S overwhelmingly better than the BMW under autocross conditions. The Cayman is amazingly well balanced and does everything you ask it to do while the Z4M pushes heavily and can be a handful under acceleration. The Cayman's brakes are so much better that my first upgrade for the Z4M will likely be some stoptechs.
Seems that it is the general consensus that the Z4M is lacking somewhat in the balance/suspension department, well at least compared to the Cayman. I've never driven the Cayman but also find my Z4M way too nervous on roads when driven back-to-back against my Lotus Elise. Since quite a few members on this board have upgraded their suspensions to KW V3s and the like, I am wondering if it helps to bring the Z4M closer to the likes of the Cayman/Elise. How significant is the improvement, particularly in addressing the nervousness over bumpy roads? I've been thinking of upgrading the Z4M's suspension to match that gem of an engine, which I feel is unmatched by any of the rivals in its class.
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      10-18-2010, 01:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r4gs View Post
wow, tt's a dog with a very peculiar character indeed! i have grown up with dogs my entire life, and they are among the most loyal and constant companions man can ever befriend. how does abby sit in the m coupe with the two of u in it!?
Well, she can't! It's us two only (no dog) or one of us and Abby in the Z4M.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan28 View Post
As an owner of both a 2006 Cayman S and 2006 Z4M roadster, I completely agree with your detailed asessment, but would go even further on the balance/suspension and rate the Cayman S overwhelmingly better than the BMW under autocross conditions. The Cayman is amazingly well balanced and does everything you ask it to do while the Z4M pushes heavily and can be a handful under acceleration. The Cayman's brakes are so much better that my first upgrade for the Z4M will likely be some stoptechs.
Thanks for adding your hands on compare under autox conditions. What kind of camber are you running in front on the Z4M? Porsche seems to do universally better on brakes whereas unless you go really top end BMW engines (at least prior to the FI era) have been better (S54, S65).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jumpthewire View Post
great read. love the photo of the dog!!
Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanzs View Post
Seems that it is the general consensus that the Z4M is lacking somewhat in the balance/suspension department, well at least compared to the Cayman. I've never driven the Cayman but also find my Z4M way too nervous on roads when driven back-to-back against my Lotus Elise. Since quite a few members on this board have upgraded their suspensions to KW V3s and the like, I am wondering if it helps to bring the Z4M closer to the likes of the Cayman/Elise. How significant is the improvement, particularly in addressing the nervousness over bumpy roads? I've been thinking of upgrading the Z4M's suspension to match that gem of an engine, which I feel is unmatched by any of the rivals in its class.
Good question. Rick Hunter is running KW V3 IIRC and there are a few more. Let's see what they can add....
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      10-18-2010, 02:15 AM   #17
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I actually disagree with some of you. I had a chance to test drive the Cayman and wasn't really impressed. I opted for the Z4M over the Porsche. Hell I would take my modified 02 NSX over the Porsche. My old S2000 (had $25,000 in proven upgrades at the time) would have given it all it could handle, let alone my NSX, E46 M3, and Z4M. If I am going to spend over $60,000 on a car it would be nothing less than a Ferrari or modified Audi R8.

I am not bashing or putting down the Cayman, it's just not for me or my tastes or performance preference. It's still a great car.

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      10-18-2010, 10:10 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndlessZ4M View Post
If I am going to spend over $60,000 on a car it would be nothing less than a Ferrari or modified Audi R8.
I assume you're talking well over $60K for a Ferrari or even a stock R8. $60K isn't what it used to be, there are non-M 3 series that cost that much new. (Yes, I know you're talking used Ferrari/Audi).

OP - Nice comparison. Camber does wonders for the coupe and the handling. I just got my camber plates on, so we'll see what a lot of camber does for me at this weekends autox event
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      10-18-2010, 10:11 AM   #19
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Great comparison, finnegan. I had no idea that the stock brakes on Z4m were a weak point.
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      10-18-2010, 10:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esqu1re View Post
Great comparison, finnegan. I had no idea that the stock brakes on Z4m were a weak point.
^ +1 nice writeup Finnegan

Re brakes^
It's not that the M brakes are a weak point, just not as good as a modern muliti pot setup like the P car.

IMO, They are actually quite good with proper pads.
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      10-18-2010, 10:56 AM   #21
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I was washing the Z yesterday afternoon when a black Cayman buzzed past on my street. Nice looking car and it did sound nice as it went by. I sure wouldn't bash the guy's car; I'm sure its a fine machine in all respects, as Finnegan has demonstrated.

But for the time being, I'm more than happy with my Z4. ANd I do like being able to drop the top, which is something you can't do in a Cayman.

Cheers!
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      10-18-2010, 11:28 AM   #22
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Drives: 2007 M Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Nova Scotia

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Nice write up. You've got both of the cars I wanted to have. I only have one of them.
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