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      11-19-2016, 12:54 PM   #1
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Best size and type of tires for 18 inch stock for my Z4MR

Just bought a 06 Z4MR, just joined this site. I have some real worn Pilot SS. Looking for a wide, strong side walled, grippy dry tire. Mostly spirited weekend driving on the twisties, may want to try Auto X / HPDE. I searched threads, many are old and or involved with changing wheel size, using spacers, using a heat gun to warp inner wheel well liner. I just want to order from Tire Rack ( or similar ) get them ordered and on ASAP. I don't want to spend more than $200/tire
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      11-19-2016, 03:56 PM   #2
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You were doing good until you set the limit at $200 per tire. The gold standard autocross tire is the Bridgestone RE71R. It's the highest grip 200 tread wear you can buy but you're looking in the $260-$300 per tire range.

There are some people I know that are running the Nexen N FERA SUR4 and while it's not quite at the level of the RE71R it appears to do a decent job. It's definitely in your price range.
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      11-20-2016, 07:44 AM   #3
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Trying to get best grip

Thanks for the advice. Learning to navigate through the threads a bit better now. I could raise my spending level. I have a 72 Datsun 240 Z (which I need to sell ) with 300HP. I put Nitto NT05's all 4 delivered/installed for less than $600 and have been incredibly happy with the grip. Was thinking of using them again or maybe the Nitto Invo. I'm not sure if I should go wider than what is the factory numbers of 225/40/18 -F, 255/35/18-R Will changing these numbers throw off anything with this car ?
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      11-20-2016, 10:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
You were doing good until you set the limit at $200 per tire. The gold standard autocross tire is the Bridgestone RE71R. It's the highest grip 200 tread wear you can buy but you're looking in the $260-$300 per tire range.

There are some people I know that are running the Nexen N FERA SUR4 and while it's not quite at the level of the RE71R it appears to do a decent job. It's definitely in your price range.
Agree re RE71R grip. They are as close to R comps in a street legal tire as it gets.
The only problem with RE71R is that they are made of marshmallows & melt off the wheels at an alarming rate.
Although rated at 200 by the mfg. , there is no way that they are a 200 tire.


Direzza ZII and Hankook RS3 are not quite as grippy, but still excellent & have decent tread life.
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      11-20-2016, 10:16 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by JJZ4MR View Post
Thanks for the advice. Learning to navigate through the threads a bit better now. I could raise my spending level. I have a 72 Datsun 240 Z (which I need to sell ) with 300HP. I put Nitto NT05's all 4 delivered/installed for less than $600 and have been incredibly happy with the grip. Was thinking of using them again or maybe the Nitto Invo. I'm not sure if I should go wider than what is the factory numbers of 225/40/18 -F, 255/35/18-R Will changing these numbers throw off anything with this car ?
A very common size change is 235, 265 in same profile
They fit the OE wheels nicely
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      11-20-2016, 11:54 AM   #6
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width matters

I've always gone with the thought that the more rubber that meets the road, the better the grip can be, all things being equal. Reading up on this one time made me a believer. Good to know this size. I just briefly started doing some online shopping. I figured I should wait and get some feedback from those that have the knowledge/ own the car and have been there, done that.

I took the car into my local BMW dealership. Checked into a few things on parts and service, got prices, gathered some info. The parts guy warned me about some softer tires having flimsy sidewalls, which would throw off the cornering abilities of these particular cars.

Really loving how this car performs, can't wait to be able to push it more with some new shoes. My rears Pilot SS are nearly flat, but STILL have decent grip on dead stop acceleration, which I'm attributing to the DSC.
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      11-20-2016, 04:03 PM   #7
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I've run 255/35 on the front with 275/35 in the rear with no issues. I'm currently running 245/40 in the front and 265/35 in the rear with the RE71s. When I was running Hankook RS3's the 255/275 sizes were nice and square in the cross section. With the really stiff sidewalls of the Bridgestone RE71s, the 255/275 sizes caused the shoulders to be more rounded and didn't really provide more contact patch. Dropping to the 245/265 sizes recovered a nice cross section profile and actually has about 5mm more contact patch width than the larger sizes did.
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      11-20-2016, 06:07 PM   #8
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Good to know. I have been doing some pricing / comparing online. Trying to just get an idea of what's available in these sizes. Decided I'm going to be spending more. I don't want to short myself performance over a few hundred dollars. I bought my car at a great price, but should have waited to sell my other weekend play car, before buying another. Feeling the pinch a bit.
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      11-21-2016, 11:56 AM   #9
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Since you're in Largo, you've got a lot of great choices for Autocross. FAST (www.drivefast.org) runs 2 events a month year round. They run at Brooksville Airport, Tampa Greyhound Track, and Tampa Bay Downs horse track. SCCA, PCA, BMWCCA, and Florida Corvette Racing Club run at Brooksville Airport also.
Gulf Coast Autocrossers run about once a month at Buckingham Field in Ft. Myers. They're not the best organized crew, but it's one of the best sites in the Southeast. 400 ft. x 2700 ft. of really grippy concrete.
SCCA and Martin Sports Car Club also do two events a year at Sebring.
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      11-22-2016, 06:30 PM   #10
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New michelin pilot super sports- u wont believe how good they are! not sure of your cost there tho
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      11-23-2016, 07:50 AM   #11
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Thanks for the tips on where to take her to really get a feel of what this car is capable of. I can't believe that for as worn as the Pilot Super Sports are, they still have quite a bit of grip. I will consider buying a new set of these. I've been educating myself on Offsets, Backspacing, Diameter Variance, and especially interesting is Revolutions per mile, using a tire comparison calculator.
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      11-23-2016, 08:32 AM   #12
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Additional info and Questions, copied from my other thread

I'm still learning to navigate, just realized that Bimmerpost/Bimmerforum/Zpost are all in same domain, but since I have you on this thread, I'm going to paste what I wrote last night here.




I just bought a 06 Z4MR and just joined the site. Not sure to reply here or elsewhere. I see last update was 07. I need some answers. I need tires really badly. The Pilot SS are nearly smooth on the rears. A few days ago, I was going to order some Nitto NT05's in a 235/40-F, 265/35 - R under the advice that they will give me a large contact patch and improved handling, compared to the stock size of 225/45, 255/40. I have some budget constraints. ( really should have sold my 72 Datsun 240 Z with 300 HP before buying Z4 M...Datsun for sale... ) Anyway. Now that my research tells me for the best grip in a ultra high performance summer tire, the Bridgestone RE-71R seems to get the most high ratings from the forum. For an extra $ 400 I now think is is worth the extra cost. On my stock " light alloys " which come to find out, are not all that light. ( Plus they need refinished, as they have the coating wearing off them in a few spots, dealership says for $110 per wheel, a company comes in and doest the work, same day, amy thoughts on this ? ) As I now have versed myself in offsets, staggered setups, spacers, backspacing etc. I've learned some, but now have more questions.
1) For spirited weekend driving, with perhaps a visit to the 1/8 runway in town, perhaps some fast Auto X and maybe looking into HPDE, what should I really look for when tire shopping/comparing.
2) Is it true that the wider I go, the more rubber on the road, so more grip in the curves
3) The 200AA rating means they will wear out quickly and wouldn't I want a AAA rating ?
4) If when using the Tire Size Calc. my decision to go 225/45-255/40 to 235/40-265-35 when comparing them on the calc.. (A) my front Diameter Variance is -2.29
my Rear DV is -2.80
(B) so actual speed is 2.25 % TOO FAST-Fr
2.88 % " " -Rear
(C) Rev per Mile Fr- 800.85 to 818.85
Rear- 799.03 to 822.03
Maybe I wrong, but doesn't this mean I have to have 18 MORE revolutions - Fr
23 MORE revolutions- Rear
So this tire change would slow me down in a straight line ? I don't want that.

(5) Staggered VS Squared ? Since the front and rears are different ET 42-F/ET 30-R,
what is the best tire size setup in the 18 inch OEM wheels ?

(6)Lastly You State On your Post -Original Z4 18" wheel sets don't seem to have the proper offset to fit correctly.

So what is the solution to your stated problem and to my fragmented thoughts.

Anyone that has any knowledge of all of this, PLEASE HELP ME GET NEW SHOES FOR MY BABY SO I CAN DRIVE HER LIKE SHE IS MEANT TO BE DRIVEN.= getting the best tire for the best price, type, manufacturer, size.
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      11-23-2016, 11:38 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJZ4MR View Post
Now that my research tells me for the best grip in a ultra high performance summer tire, the Bridgestone RE-71R seems to get the most high ratings from the forum. For an extra $ 400 I now think is is worth the extra cost. On my stock " light alloys " which come to find out, are not all that light. ( Plus they need refinished, as they have the coating wearing off them in a few spots, dealership says for $110 per wheel, a company comes in and doest the work, same day, amy thoughts on this ? ) As I now have versed myself in offsets, staggered setups, spacers, backspacing etc. I've learned some, but now have more questions.
1) For spirited weekend driving, with perhaps a visit to the 1/8 runway in town, perhaps some fast Auto X and maybe looking into HPDE, what should I really look for when tire shopping/comparing.
2) Is it true that the wider I go, the more rubber on the road, so more grip in the curves
3) The 200AA rating means they will wear out quickly and wouldn't I want a AAA rating ?
4) If when using the Tire Size Calc. my decision to go 225/45-255/40 to 235/40-265-35 when comparing them on the calc.. (A) my front Diameter Variance is -2.29
my Rear DV is -2.80
(B) so actual speed is 2.25 % TOO FAST-Fr
2.88 % " " -Rear
(C) Rev per Mile Fr- 800.85 to 818.85
Rear- 799.03 to 822.03
Maybe I wrong, but doesn't this mean I have to have 18 MORE revolutions - Fr
23 MORE revolutions- Rear
So this tire change would slow me down in a straight line ? I don't want that.

(5) Staggered VS Squared ? Since the front and rears are different ET 42-F/ET 30-R,
what is the best tire size setup in the 18 inch OEM wheels ?

(6)Lastly You State On your Post -Original Z4 18" wheel sets don't seem to have the proper offset to fit correctly.

So what is the solution to your stated problem and to my fragmented thoughts.

Anyone that has any knowledge of all of this, PLEASE HELP ME GET NEW SHOES FOR MY BABY SO I CAN DRIVE HER LIKE SHE IS MEANT TO BE DRIVEN.= getting the best tire for the best price, type, manufacturer, size.
Here's some answers to the above questions:

WRT Bridgestone RE71 tires, it is the best performing 200 treadwear tire available currently. The only other 200 treadwear rated tire that comes close is the BFG Rival 2, and they've typically been more expensive. The RE71s have a pretty stiff sidewall and are not the smoothest riding tire, but they're not as bad as the RFTs. They are a very noisy tire. When brand new they put out a chorus of roar, mud tire rumble, and a soprano like whine. The whine goes away after a couple hundred miles, but the bass and tenor hang in there. If you do autocross and you're not running the RE71s you'll be at a distinct disadvantage because almost everyone else there will be. Why is the 200 tread wear rating important? In 2014 the SCCA revamped their auto cross classes and changed classes that were designated as "stock" classes to "street" classes. As part of that change they mandated that cars running in Street class had to run tires rated 200 tread wear or greater. Previously when it was "Stock" class they allowed R-comp tires. Virtually every other autocross group uses some version of SCCA classing so paying attention to the 200 rating is important.

2) Generally wider is better, but you need to pay attention to the tire manufacturers rim width specifications, particularly with the RE71s. Once you increase the width to where the RE71s are in a pinch fit (on a rim narrower than spec) the stiff sidewall causes a lot of radius on the shoulders of the tires and you don't gain much contact patch width for the extra tire width.

3) The numbers are the tread wear rating or life estimate rating on the tires. The letters are the traction rating (first 2 letters) and temperature rating (last letter). Pretty much any known brand passenger car tire will meet the AA traction rating now, so it's really become obsoleted. If you look at the Tire Rack site I believe only the Fuzion brand is the only passenger car tire that isn't AA traction rated. That's left the softness of the rubber formulation used as the real measure of traction and the softer the formulation (lower tread wear number), generally the stickier the tire is. There's even been some bastardization of that because while the tread wear test regimen is specified by the federal government, the projection of tire life based on the wear from the test is left to the manufacturers own formulas, so a Bridgestone 200 tread wear tire isn't the same as a Michelin 200 tread wear tire which isn't the same as a Continental 200 TW, etc.

4) Roughly for every profile increment change of 5 you need to change the tire width by 20 to keep the same approximate diameter. On your fronts I believe you have 8" wide rims and you can fit a 245/40 which is within the spec for RE71s. On the rear I believe the Z4M has 9" wide rims and you can fit a 275/35 and be within manufacturers tire specs for the RE71. Any more pinch than that with the RE71 and you start to see the shoulder radius issue and you don't gain anything with the wider tires. On tires with a softer side wall like the Hankook RS3 you can go a size or two wider than with the RE71, but the RE71 in the smaller width still has more grip.

4 B&C) When you go to a smaller diameter tire your speedometer indicated speed is faster than you're actual speed. It doesn't slow the car down physically, you're just not going as fast as you think from looking at the speedo. You do gain a slight gearing advantage from the smaller diameter tire so you get a slight gain in acceleration. The negative of smaller diameter is loss of contact patch. Contact patch is a function of both the width and diameter of a tire.

5) You'll find a divided camp here. People that have bought aftermarket wheels that have allowed them to run the same size wide tires in the front and the rear will swear its the way to go and with that set up it likely is and you have the advantage of being able to due a traditional rotation of your tires. With the stock wheel sizes you wind up with a narrower tire in the rear trying to match the fronts and you get an associated loss of rear traction. My opinion is that if you're keeping your OEM wheels go with the staggered tire sizes. You can have the tires side swapped to extend their life. It adds the cost of a demount, remount and balance, but it extends tire life sufficiently that its worth it.

Hope this all helps!
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      11-26-2016, 04:44 PM   #14
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I'm VERY GRATEFUL FOR ALL THE THE ADVICE Thank you all ! Nice to reach out. I'm stuck between the RE-71 and the RE -11 Under the advice of this forum and much additional research I'm between these two, RE -71 / 11. They are priced the nearly the same, tough to find available and have similar stats. Anyone have any wisdom/experience to share. Went to my local Tires Plus, $ 999.76 out the door. I asked for any other suggestions, he offered none. I loved my Nitto's, anyone try the NT-05's ? I could save a few hundred $.
Thanks JJ Going with F 235/40 / R 265/35

PS - Everyone agree best for my 06 Z4MR 18 OEM ?
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      11-26-2016, 08:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJZ4MR View Post
I'm VERY GRATEFUL FOR ALL THE THE ADVICE Thank you all ! Nice to reach out. I'm stuck between the RE-71 and the RE -11. Under the advice of this forum and much additional research I'm between these two, RE -71 / 11. They are priced the nearly the same, tough to find available and have similar stats. Anyone have any wisdom/experience to share. Went to my local Tires Plus, $ 999.76 out the door. I asked for any other suggestions, he offered none. I loved my Nitto's, anyone try the NT-05's ? I could save a few hundred $.
Thanks JJ Going with F 235/40 / R 265/35

PS - Everyone agree best for my 06 Z4MR 18 OEM ?
Congratulations on the find, not far off from the 240 in styling eh?

Size, yes, for stock wheels I'd go with the F 235/40 / R 265/35 and avoid any pinch/crown potential. There's enough tire there to dissipate heat, not so much as to over tire the wheel for its size.

You could just plastidip the wheels for now and later buy some Apex wheels like ARC8s. Those are lighter, and deals come up from time to time in for sale that will be priced at about 2x what the repairs will be. Just a thought.

On tires I'm not a fan of the NT05 (absolute nightmare in any kind of wet, not great on track IMO) compared to other tires like the Super Sport, the Bridgestones, or Dunlop Direzza ZII Star Specs. I've ZII Dunlops and Super Sports on track and on the street, have friends who run the 11s and 71s on track. Both Bridgestones seem to have a bit more grip but wear a bit faster than the Dunlops on track from what I've seen. YYMD. Note: the NT05 isn't a "bad" tire, it's just compared to the other choices it's not a good.

I'm not enough of a Bridgestone user/expert to offer up choice 11 vs. 71.

Lastly, not sure if you are running a stock suspension or not, but, if you are an want to dial in more front camber there's a cheap way to do that!

Ask away on anything else!

Last edited by Finnegan; 11-26-2016 at 10:27 PM.
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      11-27-2016, 12:21 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJZ4MR View Post
I'm VERY GRATEFUL FOR ALL THE THE ADVICE Thank you all ! Nice to reach out. I'm stuck between the RE-71 and the RE -11 Under the advice of this forum and much additional research I'm between these two, RE -71 / 11. They are priced the nearly the same, tough to find available and have similar stats. Anyone have any wisdom/experience to share. Went to my local Tires Plus, $ 999.76 out the door. I asked for any other suggestions, he offered none. I loved my Nitto's, anyone try the NT-05's ? I could save a few hundred $.
Thanks JJ Going with F 235/40 / R 265/35

PS - Everyone agree best for my 06 Z4MR 18 OEM ?
Usually the Nitto NT series perform best when they're absolutely smoking hot which makes them a terrible tire for autocross if you have that in mind. It's also the reason they do poorly wet because even under heavy braking or cornering loads the water keeps them below their best grip temperature.
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      11-27-2016, 02:45 AM   #17
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJZ4MR View Post
I'm VERY GRATEFUL FOR ALL THE THE ADVICE Thank you all ! Nice to reach out. I'm stuck between the RE-71 and the RE -11 Under the advice of this forum and much additional research I'm between these two, RE -71 / 11. They are priced the nearly the same, tough to find available and have similar stats. Anyone have any wisdom/experience to share. Went to my local Tires Plus, $ 999.76 out the door. I asked for any other suggestions, he offered none. I loved my Nitto's, anyone try the NT-05's ? I could save a few hundred $.
Thanks JJ Going with F 235/40 / R 265/35

PS - Everyone agree best for my 06 Z4MR 18 OEM ?
Usually the Nitto NT series perform best when they're absolutely smoking hot which makes them a terrible tire for autocross if you have that in mind. It's also the reason they do poorly wet because even under heavy braking or cornering loads the water keeps them below their best grip temperature.
Makes sense. Laguna in December and pouring rain was no fun.
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      11-27-2016, 02:13 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dc_wright View Post
Here's some answers to the above questions:

WRT Bridgestone RE71 tires, it is the best performing 200 treadwear tire available currently. .....................

Hope this all helps!
I take it that you are running RE71s?
What kind of treadlife are you getting out of these???
AutoX only or track as well?

I've been really tempted to give these a try (road course only, no AutoX) but the rate of wear seen by others is holding me back.

I know one guy that has gone though 6 sets this year for 20 events.
But I think his setup on OE suspension may be a contributing factor.

My tire guy is not recommending unless I plan to spend for a few sets to get through the season.
He's telling me the 200 rating is not realistic & only to make them legal for AutoX (marketing)



I'm getting through the season now on one set of ZII star specs with tread to spare. (10 events)
The problem I was finding was that after getting a number of heat cycles through them, performance really started to fall off & tread wear slowed down.


Oh, & +1 to comments on NT05 I gave them up a long time ago.
Its also a very old tire

.
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      11-27-2016, 03:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
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I'm getting through the season now on one set of ZII star specs with tread to spare. (10 events). The problem I was finding was that after getting a number of heat cycles through them, performance really started to fall off & tread wear slowed down.
8 events on my set this year, still plenty of tread left too. Same experience on the grip and tread wear as well. Hey, I can always claim the tire is holding me back .

Bottom line it's a trade off on grip/wear and tire behavior over time. Max grip comes at a price in terms of initial cost plus wear, and with higher wear rates there's never a chance to run through a lot of heat cycles and harden the tire since there's no tire left!
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      11-27-2016, 05:00 PM   #20
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Lol...yeah gotta pay to play I guess.
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      11-27-2016, 06:27 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
I take it that you are running RE71s?
What kind of treadlife are you getting out of these???
AutoX only or track as well?

I've been really tempted to give these a try (road course only, no AutoX) but the rate of wear seen by others is holding me back.

I know one guy that has gone though 6 sets this year for 20 events.
But I think his setup on OE suspension may be a contributing factor.

My tire guy is not recommending unless I plan to spend for a few sets to get through the season.
He's telling me the 200 rating is not realistic & only to make them legal for AutoX (marketing)



I'm getting through the season now on one set of ZII star specs with tread to spare. (10 events)
The problem I was finding was that after getting a number of heat cycles through them, performance really started to fall off & tread wear slowed down.


Oh, & +1 to comments on NT05 I gave them up a long time ago.
Its also a very old tire

.
Yes, I'm running the RE71s. I'm on my second set which went on in April and they are wearing similar to the 1st set. This set has 4 track days, about 20 autocross events and about 5K miles on and it and is about at the 50% wear point. I'm due to have them side swapped and I estimate they'll make it to April of next year.
I put the first set on in July '15 and they had 1 track day on the Daytona driver school course, but about 30 autocross events and a 3K mile road trip in addition to about 3K-4K daily driving miles. They still had some wear left but one of the rears had a plug in it to fix a nail hole and I didn't want to be running that tire on the Daytona full IMSA course so I wound up changing tires out a bit earlier than needed.
I've found running 2-3 psi above the door sticker pressures for daily driving seems to help a lot with longevity without much detraction from ride or normal driving performance.
Getting only 3 track days per set sounds really out of the norm based on my experience with them and others I know that are running them. Sounds like there's something else going on there.
I'm set up for SCCA Street class so I'm not very modded from OEM. Koni Sports on all 4 corners, H&R front sway. Pins are pulled on the struts so front camber is -1.4 with toe set at zero. Rear camber is set at -2.4 with toe at 0.1.
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      11-27-2016, 06:47 PM   #22
inTgr8r
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Thanks.. That sounds more realistic for what I would expect.

I agree there is definitely something going on with the other guys suspension.
I suspect that it's just done. (OE)
I have been in discussion with him about suspension upgrades.
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