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      08-09-2010, 08:12 PM   #23
lucid
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If you really think you will get serious about tracking, I'd say just track your car in its current state + camber plates and street tires that will deal with temperatures better. That will address your tire wear problem (and understeer issues that are inherent in the stock setup). When you swap tires, go for less stagger to the extent that your rims will allow. Or get new rims + street tires as you can sell them easily when the time comes.

After another 15-20 track days, if you still think you are really hooked and motivated, buy a properly built track/race car with a full cage and get a trailer. They can be had for cheap these days as people are literally dumping their track toys for cash. That is assuming you have a tow vehicle and parking space.

The territory in between is ever illusive. There is no such thing as a streetable track weapon IMO, and you'll just be constantly frustrated with trying to make your nice Z4M a track car. There will always be the next thing you wish the car had that will make it even less streetable.

My 2 cents...
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      08-10-2010, 06:24 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
If you really think you will get serious about tracking, I'd say just track your car in its current state + camber plates and street tires that will deal with temperatures better. That will address your tire wear problem (and understeer issues that are inherent in the stock setup). When you swap tires, go for less stagger to the extent that your rims will allow. Or get new rims + street tires as you can sell them easily when the time comes.

After another 15-20 track days, if you still think you are really hooked and motivated, buy a properly built track/race car with a full cage and get a trailer. They can be had for cheap these days as people are literally dumping their track toys for cash. That is assuming you have a tow vehicle and parking space.

The territory in between is ever illusive. There is no such thing as a streetable track weapon IMO, and you'll just be constantly frustrated with trying to make your nice Z4M a track car. There will always be the next thing you wish the car had that will make it even less streetable.

My 2 cents...
Sound advice. I will take that route.
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      08-10-2010, 07:36 AM   #25
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If you do end up considering buying a track car later on, it is much cheaper to buy one that is already prepeared with the exception that you wouldn't want to inherit someone else's failed/poorly done project or a car that has been in a serious incident. I would recommend having a shop dealing with race cars check the chassis for straightness, the quality of the cage design, tubing, and welds and their compliance with regulations, inspect the subframes for cracks, conditions of all suspension and subframe bushings and engine mounts, and of course a leakdown compression test. You can find a fun clean car in the $10k-$25k range depending on the model and the quality of the components on it beyond what I mentioned.
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      08-10-2010, 09:40 AM   #26
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If you do end up considering buying a track car later on, it is much cheaper to buy one that is already prepeared with the exception that you wouldn't want to inherit someone else's failed/poorly done project or a car that has been in a serious incident. I would recommend having a shop dealing with race cars check the chassis for straightness, the quality of the cage design, tubing, and welds and their compliance with regulations, inspect the subframes for cracks, conditions of all suspension and subframe bushings and engine mounts, and of course a leakdown compression test. You can find a fun clean car in the $10k-$25k range depending on the model and the quality of the components on it beyond what I mentioned.
I have decided overnight that your way of thinking was the right way to go. I have passed on that idea on my track thread.

My Z4M is my daily driver. If I add coilovers, the already harsh ride will be worse. So I will do the Camber, the new Max performance street tires (Dunlops again). They should last more than the 9 track days of this year since the camber will help them. Cryogenic Rotors and Hawk HT10 that I will install and remove at the track.

I should be fine for another 1 or 2 years like that. Then, if I still want to invest in this sport/passtime, I will search for a used and in good shape proper race car with trailer. And all the costs associated with that. Or just buy myself a Radical.


Thanks for your wise advice.
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      08-10-2010, 10:04 AM   #27
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These is just what I learned for myself over time, which eventually led me to my current ride; I plan to start racing it next year in NASA GTS2. I am currently doing time trials. I am not saying what made sense in my case will apply to all; just a point of view.

One thing about coilovers though. You can get an adjustable setup that woud be fine on the street and improve track performance as long as you don't go with high spring rates. But even if you did that, I bet that in time you'll want to up the spring rates knowing that will give you more track performance, and you'll then get frustrated at the ride quality on the street.

A key issue for me was safety. I was really not that comfortable cornering at speed in an uncaged car without a harness and neck restraint system lap after lap. Even if you trust yourself, there is much else that can go wrong that is beyond your control. The speedo hit 150mph at the Glen in my old E92 M3, and that pretty much did it for me, so I stopped tracking that car.
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      08-10-2010, 10:43 AM   #28
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Somewhat related :P
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      08-10-2010, 06:59 PM   #29
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jragan, thanks for that hilarious video! made my day.
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      08-23-2010, 12:42 AM   #30
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So little recap on my latest event. Nothing learned really.
It was at Mont-Tremblant again, and it was wet. 1 session dry, 7 sessions wet. Rivers and lakes were forming on the track.

My Dunlops Direzzas were getting close to the end of their life, so traction was quite difficult. I was in the advanced group, so I got to track at the same time as instructors were tracking their cars. Signed off after 10 minutes in the opening session. In the rain, the car parts (brakes, throttle, tires etc) don't get used very hard... it's more my body that has to go through the ordeal of stress. Feather the throttle, feather the brakes, feather the steering inputs.

Now this was my last event of the year. I'll be going on a few rides in the Fall and then we start over in 2011.
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      08-23-2010, 10:15 PM   #31
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i've just attended my first hpde and learnt a great deal about driving on track and about the limits of the stock z4m coupes. apart from the noticeable understeer and mild brake fade towards the end of each 22 minute session, the car seems great on the track in its stock form. at least this is from a complete novice perspective.

i'm curious how the z4m's handle in the wet, since i've only ever driven in a steady downpour once and the car on stock contis definitely did not inspire confidence in traction.
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      08-24-2010, 09:38 AM   #32
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i've just attended my first hpde and learnt a great deal about driving on track and about the limits of the stock z4m coupes. apart from the noticeable understeer and mild brake fade towards the end of each 22 minute session, the car seems great on the track in its stock form. at least this is from a complete novice perspective.

i'm curious how the z4m's handle in the wet, since i've only ever driven in a steady downpour once and the car on stock contis definitely did not inspire confidence in traction.
You can slightly correct understeer by getting wider tires...
255 R
225 F

265 R
235 F

275 R
245 F

You get a more square setup as you go to the 245 F size but you will need new wheels. I am at 265 and 235.

Stock contis are bad IMO. Try the Dunlops. In rain, the Bridgestones RE050 Polo Positions are great.

As a novice, you might have been braking for too long of a distance... Better to brake later and harder. But remember you will get more and more experience as time goes by.

If your front lower air ducts are still 50% covered, make sure you cut them open.
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      08-24-2010, 10:48 AM   #33
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You get a more square setup as you go to the 245 F size but you will need new wheels.
This is entirely incorrect. 245 front and 275 rear work perfect on the stock wheels. This is generally the most popular fitment of the Dunlop Direzza Star Specs for the E85/6 ///Ms.
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      08-24-2010, 10:51 AM   #34
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This is entirely incorrect. 245 front and 275 rear work perfect on the stock wheels. This is generally the most popular fitment of the Dunlop Direzza Star Specs for the E85/6 ///Ms.

Whoah... I really thought you couldn't put that wide on the OEM wheels. I guess it's the absolute limit, isn't it?
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      08-24-2010, 11:13 AM   #35
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Running a more sq set up should help with you understeer issue
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      08-24-2010, 12:43 PM   #36
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Whoah... I really thought you couldn't put that wide on the OEM wheels. I guess it's the absolute limit, isn't it?
With pictures of the setup: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=294185
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      08-25-2010, 11:50 AM   #37
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simply by virtue of my remote location (3 hours from the nearest road track), i will not be tracking my car all too often. i may get in some track time at the much nearer continental tire company test track in uvalde (45 minutes away) since a friend of mine's girlfriend works there. will have to see.

thanks to all who have chimed in regarding the understeer issue and possible corrections with a different tyre set-up. my front stock contis are original and have about 15,000 miles on them. rear stock contis are new, so about 2,500 miles right now. thread depth still seem to be healthy on all fours though, so i won't be swapping tires anytime soon.

if ever i do though, i'm keeping the stock oem wheels, and am intending to go with the hankook v12s namely for value. i'm hoping these handle well in the wet?

tonybest, what specifically are u referring to regarding the 50% brake duct covering?
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      08-25-2010, 12:21 PM   #38
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...

tonybest, what specifically are u referring to regarding the 50% brake duct covering?
The ducts are indicated by the yellow arrows. inside you may have it 50% covered. You can see it also from the wheel well.

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      08-25-2010, 05:21 PM   #39
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interesting, i'll have to take a look through my brake ducts. why on earth would 50% be covered though, and i'm presuming it's by plastic?
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      08-25-2010, 05:48 PM   #40
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interesting, i'll have to take a look through my brake ducts. why on earth would 50% be covered though, and i'm presuming it's by plastic?
It is plastic. Rumors has it that it's only in North America that it is half covered. BMW didn't want to have ridiculous lawsuits from *ahem* USA owners because so much crap may go in through those ducts in winter and can screw up the braking capacity.
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      08-26-2010, 09:07 AM   #41
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It is plastic. Rumors has it that it's only in North America that it is half covered. BMW didn't want to have ridiculous lawsuits from *ahem* USA owners because so much crap may go in through those ducts in winter and can screw up the braking capacity.
well, i know loads of bugs end up getting sucked through the brake ducts, and they're usually found plastered to the insides of my front wheels or some such. how did u accomplish trimming off the extra 50% of plastic?
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      08-26-2010, 11:36 AM   #42
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Somewhat related :P
Great video!
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      08-26-2010, 11:42 AM   #43
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well, i know loads of bugs end up getting sucked through the brake ducts, and they're usually found plastered to the insides of my front wheels or some such. how did u accomplish trimming off the extra 50% of plastic?
They are rivetted on. You can just pull them off or trim them out with a utility knife from the inside of the fender well. You don't want to do this from the front of the car through the ducts. You want to remove the front wheels and pull them off toward the cockpit.
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      08-27-2010, 10:38 PM   #44
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They are rivetted on. You can just pull them off or trim them out with a utility knife from the inside of the fender well. You don't want to do this from the front of the car through the ducts. You want to remove the front wheels and pull them off toward the cockpit.
whoa, just had a gander down my front brake ducts, and there are indeed flaps of plastic covering what i can tell is more than 50% of the outlet! 4 rivets, 2 on each side, not going to be a particularly clean pull. hmm.
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