ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Track / Autocross / Dragstrip / Driving Techniques
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-14-2009, 01:44 PM   #1
STM34
New Member
2
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: E36 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Z4 M Coupe as track car

I am looking to purchase a Z4 M Coupe this year with the intent on it becoming the eventual successor to my E36 M3 as a street/track car. I have a couple questions and would really appreciate your opinions since you obviously know the car and most likely have driven it on the track:

What is the Z4 M Coupe like on the track, (pro's, con's)? If you have driven an E36 M3 on the track, in what ways is the M Coupe different / better / worse?

I will eventually want to have a rollbar installed. Has anyone here done this? Do you have pictures? Have you experiences any negative ramifications i.e. visibility, fitiment, etc.?

Thanks for any insights you can provide!
Appreciate 0
      05-14-2009, 04:30 PM   #2
jragan
Imola Lover
jragan's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
733
Posts

Drives: 2007 Imola Red M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

iTrader: (0)

As a platform, the E86 is a great jumping off point due to its extreme body rigidity. I forget who it is, but there is a BMW club race team that races two pre-facelift non ///M E85s (roadsters) competitively
__________________
His: RIP-"Ruby" E86 ///M Coupe: Pics Track Pics Short Vids Long Vids
Hers: 997-1 C4S: Pics
Appreciate 0
      05-14-2009, 05:09 PM   #3
The HACK
Roger Murdock
The HACK's Avatar
870
Rep
4,751
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2015 Fiat 500e
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

MZ4 Coupe pros: Stiffer chassis, more power, shorter wheel-base (better rotation), better limited slip diff (variable from full open to full lock, unlike E36 M3's static ratio), better rear suspension design, accommodate wider wheels and tires front and back, 6 speed, better head-room for helmet clearance. Bigger and better brakes (bigger caliper, pads, and floating rotors).

Cons: You HAVE TO RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG. Meaning there's no way to carry an extra set of track tires and rims unless you go ballah and add a custom tow-hitch. Trunk is big enough to carry maybe a duffel bag full of clothes for a weekend and a small assortment of tools. Clearance to the side of the head is limited and it's much harder to get in and out. Solutions for mounting in-car camera more limited (must use suction-cup on rear hatch instead of popular clamp mounts on head-rest). Can't take more than 1 passenger for e-ticket ride.

I think that just about covers it. If you plan on a "full on" track car, with cages and coil-overs and intake and exhaust and whatever you want to throw on the car that would meet rules for the particular class you run in, an E36 M3 is still a better choice because it's cheaper, more parts available, and the fact that it's easier to get a cage in the car would pretty much preclude the MZ4 Coupe.
Appreciate 0
      05-14-2009, 07:52 PM   #4
STM34
New Member
2
Rep
9
Posts

Drives: E36 M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MA

iTrader: (0)

Thanks to you both for your feedback - I appreciated it. If anyone else has additional thoughts please pass them along.

BTW - I have seen some guys get roof racks on their coupes (Z3s, Caymans) and put tires on the roof as a way to avoid needing a trailer. I'm not convinced that that is a better option though.

I don't plan on building a full race car but will want to add safety equipment like a rollbar, 6 point harness, and seats at some point. I know there is a school of thought that a harness in a street car is unsafe in the event of a crash on the street, but I think it probably depends on how close the bars are to your head, and I'm more concerned about incidents on the track anyways.

I wonder still about rollbars in the coupe. If anyone has one I'd like to hear about it.

Thanks
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2009, 01:38 PM   #5
The HACK
Roger Murdock
The HACK's Avatar
870
Rep
4,751
Posts

Drives: 2006 MZ4C, 2015 Fiat 500e
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Welcome to Jamaica have a nice day

iTrader: (1)

Given the structural rigidity of the MZ4 Coupe, it is probably STIFFER in a roll-over accident than an E36 M3 with a full cage. Just a thought.

And no, unlike the Z3 coupe the Z4 coupes do not have roof rails and roof-racks as you see on the other cars can not be installed. There's a BMW optional hitch rack that installs onto the bumper support in the rear bumper but that pretty much means absolutely no visibility out the back in the Z4 Coupe since the hitch is covered up.

As a track car, the Z4 Coupe is still RUN WHAT YOU BRING. Meaning wheels and tires should be mounted on the car, and what you leave the house with, will most likely be what you drive with on the track. At least, that's been my experience.

With modern day extreme high performance summer tires being so close in performance, and sometimes exceeding last generation R-Comps in lateral grip, I could live with driving to the track on my Toyo R1-Rs and using them there, and when I come home I swap my OEM rims back with Michelins.
Appreciate 0
      05-15-2009, 01:44 PM   #6
jragan
Imola Lover
jragan's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
733
Posts

Drives: 2007 Imola Red M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

iTrader: (0)

I always "run what I bring", so to speak, but my local road course is close enough that I usually enlist a helper (parent or girlfriend) to drop a support vehicle off the night before with everything I might need, just in case (tools, brakes components, daily-driving wheels/tires, etc). I'ts overkill, and I've never needed any of the just in case items, but my OCD requires that I be over prepared
__________________
His: RIP-"Ruby" E86 ///M Coupe: Pics Track Pics Short Vids Long Vids
Hers: 997-1 C4S: Pics
Appreciate 0
      05-16-2009, 01:31 AM   #7
RussRamz
M Slut
RussRamz's Avatar
United_States
-49
Rep
565
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 Coupe Mineral White
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adenau, GE via 3 years in dreadful El Paso, TX

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via ICQ to RussRamz
The Z4MC is becoming a very popular car here in Germany for more focused roadracing. Schubert Motorsport, Goke, BMW Motorsport, Weichers, KW, you can get everything you need to make the car a track weapon. I imagine in a short amount of time when people realize the car can compete with 997 GT3 RSs with only suspension, brake, and tire mods, more and more people will hop on the bandwagon.
__________________
You have to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back.

David Brent
Appreciate 0
      05-17-2009, 07:36 PM   #8
silversprint
Private First Class
1
Rep
164
Posts

Drives: Z4M
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SOCAL

iTrader: (0)

The Z4M hasn't proven to be much faster than a properly setup E46 M3. It should be but since no one is really racing the z4 it's is way behind in development.

Due to the rarity of the Z4M and the lack of aftermarket race parts support I actually believe the M3 is a better track car. Some of the race prepped M3 are down to 2600lbs.

The Z4 does need a rollbar. If you are serious about a track car then a rollbar, seat, and harnesses are fundamental.

This is what a Z4M looks when you roll it.

Appreciate 0
      05-17-2009, 11:27 PM   #9
03BeastCharmer
Lieutenant Colonel
03BeastCharmer's Avatar
139
Rep
1,591
Posts

Drives: '13 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houston

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversprint View Post
This is what a Z4M looks when you roll it.
Down the side of a mountain.
__________________

Current: '13 E92 M3 Euro Delivery
Wife's: E36 M3
Gone: E86 M Coupe; E30 M3, E39 M5
Appreciate 0
      05-18-2009, 01:14 AM   #10
silversprint
Private First Class
1
Rep
164
Posts

Drives: Z4M
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: SOCAL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03BeastCharmer View Post
Down the side of a mountain.
The car only rolled forward once.
Appreciate 0
      05-18-2009, 04:10 AM   #11
HBspeed
Lieutenant
29
Rep
584
Posts

Drives: 05 M3, 00 Z3MC, Boxster Spyder
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversprint View Post
The car only rolled forward once.
I remember the thread when that accident happened and it was just one roll. I've been thinking down the line in regards to some sort of roll cage as I would like to have a well set up track car that is also a street car. My buddy is getting his rally car project set up with a cage right now, and I am hoping to get around to taking my car by and going over the possible options.
Appreciate 0
      05-18-2009, 11:23 AM   #12
Z4MCJJ
Lieutenant
Z4MCJJ's Avatar
4
Rep
448
Posts

Drives: Z4MC
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Z4MC

iTrader: (0)

Let me know what you do for a roll cage...I want one also.
Appreciate 0
      05-19-2009, 03:35 PM   #13
bjo
New Member
0
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: 1995 BMW M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

Anyone care to comment on an Z4 M roadster as an auto-x and light duty DE car? I know that some clubs will allow 'verts to run up to a certain level at DE's. I am coming from a heavily prepped e36 M3 auto-x/DE car as well, but there is something about the Z4Mroadster that keeps tempting me.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 12:17 AM   #14
bkz4mc
Mars Bitches... Red Rocks !
bkz4mc's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
344
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Trapped in a glass case of emotion !

iTrader: (0)

Here's some pix of different cages I've found ( been thinking of doing the same in the future )

The top one is the Hamann RennTaxi... Then the green Studie Z4M Coupe and the bottom one is a full blown racing cage.
Attached Images
     
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 10:54 AM   #15
JCz04Bimmer
Captain
JCz04Bimmer's Avatar
20
Rep
606
Posts

Drives: 06 Z4MC
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: New York City

iTrader: (2)

If you're going to be doing any amount of street driving, I highly recommend that you avoid the full cage option. It's always been advised to me that a cage can be very dangerous on the street without a helmet and the Z4's already has a very tight cabin.

I personally would love to go with a seats-back cage to, at the very least, give me something to mount a camera to and some harnesses.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 12:35 PM   #16
Z4MCJJ
Lieutenant
Z4MCJJ's Avatar
4
Rep
448
Posts

Drives: Z4MC
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Z4MC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCz04Bimmer View Post
I personally would love to go with a seats-back cage to, at the very least, give me something to mount a camera to and some harnesses.
That's what i am thinking....seats-back roll bar.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 02:09 PM   #17
jragan
Imola Lover
jragan's Avatar
United_States
14
Rep
733
Posts

Drives: 2007 Imola Red M Coupe
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

iTrader: (0)

A year (or two?) back a guy had developed a really decent harness bar that used factory mounting points within the E86 cabin. He didn't end up producing them due to legal/insurance reasons, but his idea was sound. If I could remember where I saw it, I'd provide a link to the thread.
__________________
His: RIP-"Ruby" E86 ///M Coupe: Pics Track Pics Short Vids Long Vids
Hers: 997-1 C4S: Pics
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 02:31 PM   #18
bkz4mc
Mars Bitches... Red Rocks !
bkz4mc's Avatar
United_States
6
Rep
344
Posts

Drives: '07 Z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Trapped in a glass case of emotion !

iTrader: (0)

That's what I'm thinking would be smartest... the Renntaxi one looks to be the best of both world's, minus the door bars. To rip out the whole speaker bulkhead and put in a rear bar or full cage on a dd would be overkill, and dangerous like JC was saying.

I'm actually building a harness bar similar to that one right now that you're talking about jragan.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 02:53 PM   #19
Z4MCJJ
Lieutenant
Z4MCJJ's Avatar
4
Rep
448
Posts

Drives: Z4MC
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Z4MC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkz4mc View Post
That's what I'm thinking would be smartest... the Renntaxi one looks to be the best of both world's, minus the door bars. To rip out the whole speaker bulkhead and put in a rear bar or full cage on a dd would be overkill, and dangerous like JC was saying.

I'm actually building a harness bar similar to that one right now that you're talking about jragan.
Take pics. If it is "bolt on" you might be on to something.
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 03:00 PM   #20
03BeastCharmer
Lieutenant Colonel
03BeastCharmer's Avatar
139
Rep
1,591
Posts

Drives: '13 M3
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houston

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bjo View Post
Anyone care to comment on an Z4 M roadster as an auto-x and light duty DE car? I know that some clubs will allow 'verts to run up to a certain level at DE's. I am coming from a heavily prepped e36 M3 auto-x/DE car as well, but there is something about the Z4Mroadster that keeps tempting me.
Come to the coupe dark side, "we have cookies".
BJ - with the Roadster you would limit where you could drive. No O-fest driving schools. If "Dad" is settling down and just doing auto events than you could consider the Roadster, but if you still want to regularly do DE's don't lock yourself out of events by going from a preped E36 to a vert.

But if you do all the R&D on setting up a Z4M, than I can steal it all from you, and maybe get close to your times
__________________

Current: '13 E92 M3 Euro Delivery
Wife's: E36 M3
Gone: E86 M Coupe; E30 M3, E39 M5
Appreciate 0
      05-20-2009, 05:54 PM   #21
bjo
New Member
0
Rep
5
Posts

Drives: 1995 BMW M3
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Houston, TX

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03BeastCharmer View Post
Come to the coupe dark side, "we have cookies".
BJ - with the Roadster you would limit where you could drive. No O-fest driving schools. If "Dad" is settling down and just doing auto events than you could consider the Roadster, but if you still want to regularly do DE's don't lock yourself out of events by going from a preped E36 to a vert.

But if you do all the R&D on setting up a Z4M, than I can steal it all from you, and maybe get close to your times

I think that I may just buck up and keep the M3 and pickup a regular Z4 or Z3Mroadster for fun.
Appreciate 0
      05-25-2009, 01:26 AM   #22
RussRamz
M Slut
RussRamz's Avatar
United_States
-49
Rep
565
Posts

Drives: 2011 M3 Coupe Mineral White
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adenau, GE via 3 years in dreadful El Paso, TX

iTrader: (0)

Send a message via ICQ to RussRamz
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversprint View Post
The Z4M hasn't proven to be much faster than a properly setup E46 M3. It should be but since no one is really racing the z4 it's is way behind in development.
That's not the case here in Germany. A Z4M placed 10th in the ADAC Zurich 24 hour race here at the Nuerburgring yesterday. It easily smashed every E46M3 GT car on the grid including the new E90 M3 GT car...

The chassis is outstanding and is on par with the 997 GT RSRs--almost!
__________________
You have to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back.

David Brent
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:43 PM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST