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      09-26-2013, 05:03 PM   #1
gas-can
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Question New Tires- Conti DWS- like driving on balloons? :(

EDIT: Most of the instability was caused by the car being out of alignment, as suggested by forum members. Read post 19 for full details.

Hi ladies and gents,


After about a year of putting up with the stock run flats (they finally wore out! yay!) I finally got some Conti DWS installed the other day. At first I was amazed at how much quieter and smoother the ride was, but then I took it on the highway and noticed that at higher speeds (~80 mph is the cruising average around here), the car seemed pretty unstable. Things like lane changes result in a distinct floaty feeling, where the car seems almost wobbly and "lexus like".

Now I know that going from the stiff run flat Summer tire to an all season is obviously going to result in reduced feel and traction, but this seems excessive. I've had all seasons on hondas before that didnt feel this floaty. it seriously is like driving on a balloon

Has anyone else that had this tire noticed this? I've noticed a lot of talk about soft sidewalls but this is ridiculous...

I've upped the pressure from 32 to 40 on the fronts tonight. I'm hoping this along with some burn in will reduce this but any input is welcome!!

Regards,
gas-can

Last edited by gas-can; 10-07-2013 at 01:06 PM..
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      09-26-2013, 05:43 PM   #2
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I would stay around the recommended pressure on the driver door plate.

Maybe you have an alignment issue.
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      09-26-2013, 05:46 PM   #3
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As Huz said, was there an alignment done with the new tires? If so, what are the settings?
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      09-26-2013, 05:49 PM   #4
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I had DWS before and didn't experience the issue.
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      09-26-2013, 06:24 PM   #5
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Maybe your toe in setting? When I changed from the OE runflats to Hankook V12s, which have a soft sidewall like the Contis, the ride/response felt like it was floating and wandering to me. Going to the oe suggested tire pressure helped minimally (33/39 psi). Increasing the toe in made a noticeable improvement in the feel.
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      09-27-2013, 07:54 AM   #6
gas-can
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Thanks for the info gentlemen.

I was originally scheduled for an alignment on the same day as the tire installation, but that had to be dropped due to an unforeseen event. I'll definitely get one done either this weekend or next.

Incompatible- do you by any chance know what the toe in setting you set to was?

I got the car up to speed today with the increased psi (40 warm, ~37 cold). While it helped a bit, the floatiness was still there past 70mph. It's actually kind of scary b/c things like lane changes make the car seem unstable. The razor sharp scalpel like handling that was there previously is gone...

Up to that speed though, it's ok. Ride comfort and quietness are excellent though....

If the alignment doesn't work out, I'll just use the Conti 60 day satisfaction guarantee to put on some DW's or other summer tire, and steal one of my parent's vans when the snow comes.

I'll update this post either way on what I find for future reference....

-gas-can
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      09-27-2013, 08:54 AM   #7
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I'll try to find my spec sheet. The additional toe in was suggested by the tech who did the work and also tracks a 3 series.
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      09-27-2013, 09:22 AM   #8
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I agree, sounds like car needs an alignment tweaking. The DWS is a great all-season tire but its sidewall is a bit soft (esp compared to RFTs). You'd notice turn-in to be a bit 'squishier' almost like a performance winter tire (but not quite). But in no way would this tire characteristic contribute to the instability you've described. Currently on my E85, I have a set of GY F1 Assymmetrics AS and overall I've been quite happy with the tires' feel (comfortable ride, decent grip etc). They definitely feel 'firmer' than the DWS I used to have on my W211.
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      09-27-2013, 09:34 AM   #9
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500-600 miles.

You've got to get the mold release agent/lubricant to wear off. I've got a set of Conti Extreme DWs and after I had about 600 miles on them they handled very differently. I also needed to up the pressure about 3 or 5 lbs to stiffen the sidewalls to my liking.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete...e.jsp?techid=5
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      09-27-2013, 07:19 PM   #10
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gas can, I had V12 on the rear of my old M and it was all over the place. I had stock conti's in front... so with new tires and still being slick...it wasn't the best feeling driving on the freeway...I also lowered the back tires PSI to about 35...I suspect the V12 is a thinner tire so more pressure would make the tire not as flat...no proof...just my thoughts.

When the rear tires were replaced...I had alignment done same time...I had to take it back and tweak it more...I still never liked it. My stock tires were really worn in, so I believe it gripped better just because of the car being slight out of alignment...wearing the tires more.

After 600 miles or so...it felt better...but at times it would feel tail happy at higher speeds not like the old tires I had or the older 3.0SI I drove... mixing tires suck... too bad your not dialed in with your new tires..I heard good things about the Conti DWS and DW
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      09-30-2013, 12:36 PM   #11
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Thanks guys.

I scheduled an alignment for this Saturday- hopefully this will alleviate some of the issues.

This weekend I got a chance to take the car up Skyline Drive in VA (very highly recommended!) with 2 other friends. It was very early in the morning with no people, so we got a chance to open the taps up a bit, and though the runflat summers would obviously have allowed for sharper handling, the tires and car did great. The grip was a bit less, and there was a slight "roll", but the breakaway on turns was very predictable and controlled.

After that, I noticed on the drive back that some of the instability had reduced, so I'm wondering if that floaty feeling is a part of the break in, as suggested by elerner. I'm not sure I'm completely sold on the tires yet, but I will try them for a bit more before I choose whether to swap them for the DWs.

If you do find that sheet, incompatible, it would be greatly appreciated!

And imom, I can only imagine how that must've felt - especially with all the power of the M behind it! -Also, how you enjoying the BRZ? One of the cars we had up the mountain was a BRZ, and it held the corners like a bugger!

-gc
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      09-30-2013, 03:35 PM   #12
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Still looking for mine (dealing with computer crash) but I did find this. I remember that my specs were close to what the Dinan Stage 3 numbers were.
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      09-30-2013, 04:54 PM   #13
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I had mine up to around 100 with DWS installed and they were rock solid. I'm guessing as others, alignment or some other factor. Also, the DWS shine most when the weather is lousy. In warm dry, they are good, but nothing stellar.
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      10-04-2013, 07:38 AM   #14
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A couple of observations from my personal experience that may be of interest.

I've bought two sets of Hankook Ventus v12's and found them to feel slippery for well over 500 miles. Far longer than I expected ( the first time). Could be the case with the DWS.

I've also found the Z4 to be really sensitive to difference in front and rear tires. For my second set of Hankook's I replaced only the rears at first because the fronts had a lot of life left. Huge mistake - the car was noticeably different in corners and in lane changes. I couldn't figure it out, so, in desperation, I bought new fronts and the car was instantly back to normal.

Jeff
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      10-04-2013, 12:32 PM   #15
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Incompatible, thank you very much for that. I'll share that with the tech tomorrow.

ANUSTART (I'm not sure where to emphasize your name ) - I think the break in definitely helped a bit as the tires are now stiffer than in the beginning, but I'm still not 100% sold on them.

I'm thinking the alignment is contributing to the weirdness, as I took the car up to 100 and it was extremely unstable and fluttery. Hopefully the alignment tomorrow will help , and will help me decide whether I'm gonna swap these for some summers or keep them as is. Nonetheless, the soft sidewalls are definitely the biggest shortcomings of these tires. The initial instability I noticed is the rolling that the tires do on fast turns...

Jeff, I noticed the slipperiness too, and I've put on about 600 miles so far. They have improved a bit but the tires are still pretty slippery. Thankfully I replaced all 4 so mixed tires is not in this equation. I can only imagine how that would feel.

I'll share what I find after the alignment tomorrow.
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      10-04-2013, 03:00 PM   #16
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OP,

Conti's are junk, Michelin PSS or PS AS3 if you need all season.
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      10-07-2013, 07:18 AM   #17
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I wouldn't call them junk, they do what they were designed to do very well. I drove them all year during a Chicago winter and they were fantastic. However, if you're looking for a performance tire, they aren't as good at that. Get a set of PSS, they are what you want for performance.
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      10-07-2013, 07:44 AM   #18
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I had DWS's on a CTS-V I used to own and I thought they were phenomenal for an all season tire. Good grip, and I drove an entire winter on them and they were fantastic. sure, they're no dedicated summer tire but they were a lot better than I expected.
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      10-07-2013, 01:05 PM   #19
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Update:

So I had the alignment done Saturday, and got to get it to highway speeds today, and most of the instability was gone. It turns out my alignment was pretty off, and this was the reason for the weird feel I got past 70. Thanks to all that suggested this!

That said, the squishy steering feeling is still there at higher speeds (due to the sidewalls I suppose). It's definitely reduced since the beginning (I suppose the tires get "baked" a bit during the heat cycling, causing them to stiffen up a bit?), but that has not reduced since the alignment.

I drove through a rain storm today and the car handled very well- almost like the road was dry, the so wet traction is very good.

So in summary:

DWS Pros:
  • Much quieter and comfier ride
  • Very good wet traction
  • No more tramlining!
DWS Cons:
  • Steering feel is reduced- "squishy" on turns @ high speeds- cornering is not as surefooted
  • Dry grip is nothing special(given since it's A/S) [but breakaway is controlled which is a +]

I'm gonna try these tires for another week. If I decide I can't live with the steering feel and reduced traction, I'll just put some summers on it and steal a different car for wintery weather.

Thanks again!
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      10-07-2013, 07:01 PM   #20
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hey buddy. i only read the title and figured i'd give you my quick input.

i replaced the oem pirelli pzero with conti dws on my audi a5. the handling characteristics of that tire of absolutely awful. so bad that i thought the dealership screwed something up with the car when installing the new tires on oem wheels. the dealer thought i was nuts but i took a tech out on a drive with me and induced some of the floaty/balloon like handling by slightly jerking the steering wheel on the highway at around 80 and he's like yea, that's pretty bad.

they refunded my money and put on pzeros again.

to date, the dws were the worst tires i've ever driven on. the DW extremes are not that bad. i had them on my e46m3 and they even saw a light coating of snow.
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      11-11-2013, 06:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gas-can View Post
And imom, I can only imagine how that must've felt - especially with all the power of the M behind it! -Also, how you enjoying the BRZ? One of the cars we had up the mountain was a BRZ, and it held the corners like a bugger!

-gc

Hi GC, sorry I haven't been to this forum as much as researching the FT86 platform. Handling is nice on the BRZ, M is better slightly, but M was always more stiff and rough for daily driving. I never felt like I would be in trouble yet, but the brakes are no where close the M and I miss the fat steering wheel...The Z4M steering seems to be the best grip feel I felt in the various cars I've driven. I miss the power...daily driving it's okay, but it has a nasty 4K RPM torque dip a lot of folks complain about. Some mods will be needed to make it up to the level or surpass the M...but it doesn't cost as much as modding a Z4M.
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