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      07-22-2015, 10:21 PM   #1
intoflatlines
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Question Stock Z4M brakes - best pad for autocross and HPDE?

Stock Z4M. Fluid is ATE Type 200. Never had any issues with the stock setup over several dozen autocross events. I am doing my first track day on a "big boy" track in a couple weeks. My friend highly suggested getting new pads, but I'm not sure what to get. The car is occasionally used on the street but sees most of its use at autocross and a couple track days this year. I do not want to switch pads back and forth. I do not mind a lot of brake dust. Noisy/squeaky brakes are annoying but not an absolute deal breaker.

Hawk Street Race or HP Plus? Pagid S Sport? Something else?

Do all four corner's pads need to be changed or do you only do the front?

Do you have to change rotors at the same time even if they have plenty of life left?

I have read that some say stock pads are fine for a beginner. I mentioned this to my buddy, who is an accomplished road racer and autocrosser, and he agreed that stock pads are good for a beginner but he thinks that I will cook the pads, from how he's seen me drive at autocross events.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance!
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      07-22-2015, 10:34 PM   #2
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I have Hawk HP Plus for track days, but do swap them before and after because they are very loud and annoying for street driving. They do fine on the track, I have not noticed any brake fade. Because I am swapping before and after, I could put a higher performance pad on, but I do drive to/from the track so maybe that's a good reason to stick with the HP+. Again, HP+ are very loud on the street.
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      07-22-2015, 11:11 PM   #3
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Hawk DTC60 or 70 if you want to stay with Hawk family.

There's a school of thought to stay with the same "family" of pads on the same rotor, and while I never fully understand why, I have experienced first hand how swapping between Hawk DTC60 and Cool Carbon pads leaves some really weird deposit problems.

Your mileage may vary.
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      07-23-2015, 09:39 AM   #4
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After thinking more about it, I'm probably going to go with dedicated track pads and run them year round since the car is really mainly driven to/from events.

Pagid RS29 all around? What do you think?
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      07-23-2015, 11:02 AM   #5
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Before you do that. SOME track pads take a lot of heat to work properly. Especially the ones designed for short sprints. They will feel like braking with butter until it's heated up.

It is not advisable to drive certain track only pads on the street, unless you're prepared for that initial "shock" of having little friction in your compound.
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      07-23-2015, 01:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
Before you do that. SOME track pads take a lot of heat to work properly. Especially the ones designed for short sprints. They will feel like braking with butter until it's heated up.

It is not advisable to drive certain track only pads on the street, unless you're prepared for that initial "shock" of having little friction in your compound.
Good point indeed, thanks. There's a thread in here where it appears several people like the RS29 for street duty as well, so I'm thinking/hoping I will be OK. It will probably be noisy though.
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      07-23-2015, 08:57 PM   #7
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Performance friction pads work really well. I ran the 01 compound but found the initial bite a little too touchy for me so switched to the 08 compound, very happy so far. I've used both on the street without any issue though it doesn't get very cold here. The 01s squeak a lot (you'll get noticed), haven't had much squeaking from the 08s though.

"Big boy" tracks are addicting, have fun!
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      07-24-2015, 12:46 AM   #8
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I know you've already decided on track pads, but just to share my experience... I went with OEM pads for a while but it didnt take long before I was going through a set of pads in 3-4 track days (about 2mm wear per day) and started feeling the brakes drop off towads the end of a session. Switched to pagid s sports and had serious problems with deposits. Eventually resulted in warped rotors. Now I'm running pfc08s and very happy with them. They feel a bit like you're braking with a brick until hot, but then they smooth out. Way longer life, no fade. They do wear rotors faster then OEM pads. They also squeal like crazy after a track day. I'm still looking for anti-squeal paste that stands up to track use. I've used the ate stuff and some purple permatex goop that both work great to stop squeal but track heat just cooks the stuff away.
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      07-25-2015, 08:55 PM   #9
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I tried the Hawk Street/Race pads for a while. They performed fine on the street, just took higher pressure when cold, but still stopped fine. Great grip once they got warmed up and no indications of any fade. Very dusty and really hard on the rotors, but the main reason I switched to some PFC pads was the noise. On the street it was like listening to a school bus stop. The squeal was unbelievable. On the track once they got warmed up, the squeal moderated to a loud groan that you could hear half way across the track site. I was running them on R1 Concepts drilled and slotted rotors which contributed somewhat to the noise, but it still was excessive even for performance pads.
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      07-26-2015, 08:01 PM   #10
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Hawks are very hard on rotors and the Hawk Dust is very damaging to the rims over time. I haven't tracked my Z4M yet (and I won't because it a roadster) but I had great success with carbotech Bobcat 1512 for daily driver and Autocross and the XP8,s or XP10" for the track on my 2005 STi, 3240 lbs. They are dusty but the dust doesn't damage rims.
The Bobcat was great for autocross and the XP8's had good stopping power, great modulation. They are made of the same compounds, just different ratios so you don't have to re-bed them when you switch from street to track. I even drove to the track on the XP8's with no problem stopping cold.
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      07-27-2015, 04:30 PM   #11
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Installing pads soon. Since I am keeping the stock rotor, should I do anything special to prep the rotor, or should I just bed them in right away? The car is not daily driven.
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      07-28-2015, 09:00 AM   #12
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Also it appears that the "lip" on each rotor surface is around 0.4 mm. That is OK, right?
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      07-28-2015, 06:41 PM   #13
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The real issue is whether the rotors are at min thickness: 26.4mm front. New they are 28mm. If they aren't cracking I believe you can safely use them to min thickness. I don't remember the rear numbers, something like 18.x min.

I should add, since you're installing new pads I would replace rotors near min. For reference, I got 13 track days out of my last set of front rotors and pads. Rear pads were also shot but rear rotors are only about at half.
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      07-28-2015, 07:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossdog View Post
Hawks are very hard on rotors and the Hawk Dust is very damaging to the rims over time. .........
+1^
Im running the Hawk DTC for track and if you get that brake dust wet it turns as hard as concrete & it's a SOB to clean up.
You have to clean the wheels right away after track.
"Iron out " really helps to get them cleaned up.


I really like the pads but I'm looking to try something more friendly the next time.
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      07-28-2015, 08:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dschultz View Post
The real issue is whether the rotors are at min thickness: 26.4mm front. New they are 28mm. If they aren't cracking I believe you can safely use them to min thickness. I don't remember the rear numbers, something like 18.x min.

I should add, since you're installing new pads I would replace rotors near min. For reference, I got 13 track days out of my last set of front rotors and pads. Rear pads were also shot but rear rotors are only about at half.
Gotcha. I tried to measure total thickness but my caliper design doesn't allow it to fit over the lip. So 28.0 - 0.8 = 27.2, so they are around halfway worn, and I noticed no cracks. Should be good then, thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inTgr8r View Post
+1^
Im running the Hawk DTC for track and if you get that brake dust wet it turns as hard as concrete & it's a SOB to clean up.
You have to clean the wheels right away after track.
"Iron out " really helps to get them cleaned up.


I really like the pads but I'm looking to try something more friendly the next time.
Thanks for the input. Hopefully the RS-29 are more forgiving on the wheels.
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      07-29-2015, 12:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intoflatlines View Post
my caliper design doesn't allow it to fit over the lip.
http://t.harborfreight.com/6-in-long...per-60248.html

On sale!
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      08-02-2015, 01:06 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intoflatlines View Post
Installing pads soon. Since I am keeping the stock rotor, should I do anything special to prep the rotor, or should I just bed them in right away? The car is not daily driven.
Most of the pad manufacturers will tell you to remove the previous Pads deposit from the Rotor. You do this by sanding the rotor. A power palm sander and some emery cloth makes it much easier. Different pad materials don't always mix. Under slow braking its just pad friction that stops the car. Under high speed and high temperature braking, the stopping power comes from the brake pad grabbing its own deposit on the rotor. So, if you don't have a good deposit of the new material on the rotor, braking will not be optimal. Pad materials can be incompatible and can ball up and make uneven deposits on the rotor causing a pulsing like a warped rotor, but its not, its uneven deposit of brake material.
I always turn my rotors before putting new pads on. I understand the Z4M has some kind is Pseudo Floating rotor that cant be turned??? In any case, if you can turn your rotors prior to changing pads, I would highly recommend it. There is nothing more important than Brakes when tracking your car. Be sure to use High temp Brake fluid as well. I had good luck with Brembo LCF 600 but there are several good track fluids out there.
Good Luck

Last edited by Bossdog; 08-02-2015 at 08:02 AM..
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      09-17-2015, 03:46 PM   #18
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So, Intoflatlines,
What happened at your first Track day?
How did you prepare your brake system?
What pad did you select. Share your experience?
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      09-18-2015, 11:05 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossdog View Post
So, Intoflatlines,
What happened at your first Track day?
How did you prepare your brake system?
What pad did you select. Share your experience?
Thanks for the interest!

I did not turn or replace my rotors, I just put the new pads (Pagid RS29) right on and bedded them after I flushed the brake fluid. They are pretty loud when cold but quiet down as they get hot. I had no brake fade on my track day. I did have vibration of the steering wheel under heavy braking develop as the day went on. Probably uneven deposits on the rotor. After the track day, the rear pads were making incredibly loud rattling noises, since the RS29 pads do not have the little spring clip things that hold it into the piston. No big deal, I pulled the pads out and put a lot of pad compound on the backing plates so they don't rattle anymore, but we'll see how they sound after the next track day in about three weeks.
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      03-26-2016, 05:57 PM   #20
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Can anyone speak to the comparison between the Stop Tech Street performance pads and the Stock OEM pads for the Z4M? My use will be street and AutoX, NO Track days.

Are the Brake pads on the E85/E86 the same as the E46 competition Package?

Last edited by Bossdog; 03-26-2016 at 06:10 PM..
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      03-27-2016, 10:03 PM   #21
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I can't speak to the Z4M specifically but I have the Stop Tech Street pads on my E90 M3 and I love them. Very linear feel and take to autocross very well. Dust seems to be about the same as OE pads. No issues though. I will probably buy them again when I need new pads.

Looking at getting the same pads for my Z4 at some point.
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      05-11-2016, 12:14 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bossdog View Post
Are the Brake pads on the E85/E86 the same as the E46 competition Package?
Yes. Same brakes set up in both.
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