moton or mcs - which to choose?

[604skyline]

going to be getting a coilover/suspension set-up in the new year, wondering everyone's thoughts between the two;

moton or mcs?

thanks for your time and help, also have a bbs wheel dilemma in the wheel/tire section.

[Gt4]

Originally Posted by 604skyline

going to be getting a coilover/suspension set-up in the new year, wondering everyone's thoughts between the two;

moton or mcs?

thanks for your time and help, also have a bbs wheel dilemma in the wheel/tire section.

What exactly are you going to do with that car? Track car only, street car or both? Or maybe a showcar? What tires threadwear are you running (slicks, R-Compound, street)? Do you have a cage in the car? (you can get coilover rear with a cage or half cage)

You can't go wrong with Moton or MCS. Both are similar quality, price is also similar. Are you looking for 2way or 3way adjustable?

For the wheels, in terms of looks and soul, I would definitely go with the E88 magnesium wheels. They would looks amazing on a M Coupe.

[beta]

I'd go mcs just because it's the same people that brought you moton, but supposedly newer/better designs (as they sold off moton and made a new company).

They've also been doing well in NASA GTS (German Touring Series), lots of winners were running MCS.

[Beedub]

damn please post detailed pics when your choosen setup comes in ;-)

[sabbanick]

http://www.motioncontrolsuspension.c...e-dampers.html

MCS, newer technoogy and these single adj shocks have the ability to be upgraded to external res. dual adj. in future.

Its the route i plan to go when the time is right for me.

[604skyline]

thanks for the feedback everyone, I know its going to be complete overkill, but no track, just my daily driver that I purchased back in may of 2008, that now has 19,XXX km's on it.

I am leaning towards to MCS....

[sabbanick]

It may be too stiff for street driving but there is only one way to find out. The KW kits would make for a nice street kit IMO. If it too much and you are not happy ill gladly take them off your hands...haha.

[Gt4]

Originally Posted by 604skyline

thanks for the feedback everyone, I know its going to be complete overkill, but no track, just my daily driver that I purchased back in may of 2008, that now has 19,XXX km's on it.

I am leaning towards to MCS....

For street use, I would suggest 1-way damper, no need for 2 or 3 way IMO except if you want the look of external reservoir.

Go with spring rates that are not too hard to keep a little bit of comfort. Something like 400 front and 500 rear. Choose a camber plate with a bushing, no spherical bearing for street use.

[beta]

I'm seriously considering single adjustable non-remote mcs. If I like it there will be some kw v3s for sale on here. So if you can wait a few months (not sure how long they're taking to ship) I can compare both.

[Ontrack]

Originally Posted by beta

I'd go mcs just because it's the same people that brought you moton, but supposedly newer/better designs (as they sold off moton and made a new company).

They've also been doing well in NASA GTS (German Touring Series), lots of winners were running MCS.

I just installed, in face car still at shop, MCS 2 way with exterior reservoirs. I talked to James Clay with Bimmerworld about which way to go, he recommended MCS over both Moton and JRZ.

[604skyline]

Originally Posted by Ontrack

I just installed, in face car still at shop, MCS 2 way with exterior reservoirs. I talked to James Clay with Bimmerworld about which way to go, he recommended MCS over both Moton and JRZ.

for starters, what is the ride like? what springs were used? they seem to use swift springs if i am correct? anyone know anything about swift springs....

vorshlag seems to be the company of choice for camber plates? what about rear mounts? might as well ask about springs too...

if possible would you please list all parts used on the install, brands, etc.

finally, any pics after the install?

[beta]

Just heard back from mcs, at max height you're looking at a 1" drop from stock. I already have trouble with the 0.5" drop of the KW V3s (even on my own driveway). I'm pretty sure vorshlag does not increase ride height, so that wouldn't help. Not sure if anyone has any ideas.

As for parts, you should definitely get some rear shock mounts. I also got some rear trailing arm limiters, this way you can keep the stock bushings and not make the ride harsher or increase NVH.

I keep hearing great things about swift springs, but haven't tried them. One of the reasons I want to sidegrade from KWs to these.

[Gt4]

I think you should go with KW Clubsport for street use. It would be more than enough and would cost $$$$ way less.

[beta]

mcs single adjustable non remote + swift springs + vorshlag camber plates + rear adjusters are within $100 of clubsports.

For street V3s would probably be a better choice anyway. What I don't like about the V3s is that the rear damper reservoirs get in the way of replacing brake pads and the rear springs rub because they're progressive. I believe the clubsports will have the same two drawbacks, with the advantage is that they're better on the track (linear front springs, stiffer valving, plates, etc.).

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Ontrack

I just installed, in face car still at shop, MCS 2 way with exterior reservoirs. I talked to James Clay with Bimmerworld about which way to go, he recommended MCS over both Moton and JRZ.

Originally Posted by 604skyline

for starters, what is the ride like? what springs were used? they seem to use swift springs if i am correct? anyone know anything about swift springs....

vorshlag seems to be the company of choice for camber plates? what about rear mounts? might as well ask about springs too...

if possible would you please list all parts used on the install, brands, etc.

finally, any pics after the install?

Here I go with my elitist attitude again...

His handle is "Ontrack." He consulted James Clay, a professional race team owner and an accomplished racer himself. The three brands he cross shopped, MCS, Moton, and JRZ, are all professional grade RACE dampers.

I don't think ride quality is the first and foremost on his mind. Just a guess.

IMO, when you're talking about the stratospheric level in terms of PROFESSIONAL race quality dampers, there are so little difference in how they're built and their quality and function that it literally comes down to personal preference and professional obligations. Now, having zero professional obligations to neither company, my personal preference would be MCS because the company I used to work for looked into a bid to buy Moton's US distribution rights and was turned away before it even got to due diligence. Not that there's anything wrong with Moton. It's just that I am still bitter that we didn't even get a chance to submit a bid, but that's water under the bridge, so they say.

But. I am fond of saying, that if you're going to buy ANYTHING in the automotive aftermarket, you should really know why you're buying it, and why one product cost more than another...Basically, you should really know what you're buying FOR. The key reason why the Motons and the MCSes and the JRZs and the Ohlins in the world cost so much, isn't because they're superior shocks. Oh, they're superior. But they cost so much because they're RACE dampers designed to be REBUILD at the end of every season. Most professional and amateur teams running these dampers will have them removed, and sent back to each respective brand's facility (or the likes of James Clay at Bimmerworld) to have the internals re-valved and rebuilt. Because "racing" puts such incredible amount of stress on the components that by the end of a single (or two, depending on how many races you enter) season that most of the internals would require reconditioning regardless of what brand of shocks you use.

So you MUST ask yourself. Are you buying MCS or Moton because they're better shocks (oh believe you me, they are), or are you buying MCS or Motons because you NEED them. In all honesty, you're paying for the better internals and the race development behind the product, not necessarily better or stronger material. The best analogy I can give you, as an amateur camera buff, are guys who paid $8,000 for an advanced professional DSLR system with another $10,000 invested in lenses, only to leave the camera in "program" mode and basically POINT AND SHOOT. Yes you're paying for a world class, professional camera that can do some amazing stuff. But in reality, all you need, at best, are the prosumer level camera because frankly, you don't have all the associated professional equipment to take full advantage of the $8,000 pro camera.

Now, off on a tangent. I am an avid amateur photographer and COULD probably eek out a living doing that. Recently I art directed a photoshoot for a client with a friend of mine who's a fashion photographer for the good part of the last 30 years and is universally pegged as the top photographer in his field. He's got a phenomenal setup in his studio. I did a mental tally of the equipment outside of his cameras and lenses, and it probably exceeded $40,000 worth. But the ONE tool he has at his disposal, that he took extra care for more than anything else in the room, that I don't have? His color card. A $100 piece of paper. He wouldn't let me touch it. I can go off on more tangent about how he shoots with controlled light and I shoot with available light due to the different subjects we shoot, but that'd be boring most of you who are not into photography, but that was the one single tool that caught my eye that makes it having a professional level camera worth while. A color card.

Frankly I don't know why I'm telling you all that stuff. Maybe another analogy that would suit better. For someone who's never going to see track use on his MZ4, choosing between MCS and Motons is like trying to decide between a night with a couple of $10,000 high-end escort, who most likely won't put up with fellatio and using other parts of the body not entirely designed for giving pleasure, while all you really want and need is a night at the Bunny Blue Ranch for $1,000. Sure, the end result is PROBABLY going to be similar to you. Sexual release and satisfaction. But frankly? The girls at Bunny Blue Ranch will probably do a better job with the fellating and might even open up the possibility of using other orifices for your use than the high end escort.

But do know this. Either the MCS or the Motons will likely be the BEST dampers you can possibly buy, just like the $10,000 escort will look damn nice as you two stroll down Beverly Hills and all the on-looker wonder which movie star you are.

[seank]

the end.

[Ontrack]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Here I go with my elitist attitude again...

His handle is "Ontrack." He consulted James Clay, a professional race team owner and an accomplished racer himself. The three brands he cross shopped, MCS, Moton, and JRZ, are all professional grade RACE dampers.

I don't think ride quality is the first and foremost on his mind. Just a guess.

IMO, when you're talking about the stratospheric level in terms of PROFESSIONAL race quality dampers, there are so little difference in how they're built and their quality and function that it literally comes down to personal preference and professional obligations. Now, having zero professional obligations to neither company, my personal preference would be MCS because the company I used to work for looked into a bid to buy Moton's US distribution rights and was turned away before it even got to due diligence. Not that there's anything wrong with Moton. It's just that I am still bitter that we didn't even get a chance to submit a bid, but that's water under the bridge, so they say.

But. I am fond of saying, that if you're going to buy ANYTHING in the automotive aftermarket, you should really know why you're buying it, and why one product cost more than another...Basically, you should really know what you're buying FOR. The key reason why the Motons and the MCSes and the JRZs and the Ohlins in the world cost so much, isn't because they're superior shocks. Oh, they're superior. But they cost so much because they're RACE dampers designed to be REBUILD at the end of every season. Most professional and amateur teams running these dampers will have them removed, and sent back to each respective brand's facility (or the likes of James Clay at Bimmerworld) to have the internals re-valved and rebuilt. Because "racing" puts such incredible amount of stress on the components that by the end of a single (or two, depending on how many races you enter) season that most of the internals would require reconditioning regardless of what brand of shocks you use.

So you MUST ask yourself. Are you buying MCS or Moton because they're better shocks (oh believe you me, they are), or are you buying MCS or Motons because you NEED them. In all honesty, you're paying for the better internals and the race development behind the product, not necessarily better or stronger material. The best analogy I can give you, as an amateur camera buff, are guys who paid $8,000 for an advanced professional DSLR system with another $10,000 invested in lenses, only to leave the camera in "program" mode and basically POINT AND SHOOT. Yes you're paying for a world class, professional camera that can do some amazing stuff. But in reality, all you need, at best, are the prosumer level camera because frankly, you don't have all the associated professional equipment to take full advantage of the $8,000 pro camera.

Now, off on a tangent. I am an avid amateur photographer and COULD probably eek out a living doing that. Recently I art directed a photoshoot for a client with a friend of mine who's a fashion photographer for the good part of the last 30 years and is universally pegged as the top photographer in his field. He's got a phenomenal setup in his studio. I did a mental tally of the equipment outside of his cameras and lenses, and it probably exceeded $40,000 worth. But the ONE tool he has at his disposal, that he took extra care for more than anything else in the room, that I don't have? His color card. A $100 piece of paper. He wouldn't let me touch it. I can go off on more tangent about how he shoots with controlled light and I shoot with available light due to the different subjects we shoot, but that'd be boring most of you who are not into photography, but that was the one single tool that caught my eye that makes it having a professional level camera worth while. A color card.

Frankly I don't know why I'm telling you all that stuff. Maybe another analogy that would suit better. For someone who's never going to see track use on his MZ4, choosing between MCS and Motons is like trying to decide between a night with a couple of $10,000 high-end escort, who most likely won't put up with fellatio and using other parts of the body not entirely designed for giving pleasure, while all you really want and need is a night at the Bunny Blue Ranch for $1,000. Sure, the end result is PROBABLY going to be similar to you. Sexual release and satisfaction. But frankly? The girls at Bunny Blue Ranch will probably do a better job with the fellating and might even open up the possibility of using other orifices for your use than the high end escort.

But do know this. Either the MCS or the Motons will likely be the BEST dampers you can possibly buy, just like the $10,000 escort will look damn nice as you two stroll down Beverly Hills and all the on-looker wonder which movie star you are.

The HACK;

You are right on the money in your assessment except for one facet. My wife still loves to drive the MC on the street so I went with MCS instead of JRZ because they ride better on the track and street. Had I been looking for a street kit no way would I have put out for MCS!!! I ONLY went that way because I track the car and it also goes on the street, albeit rarely!

Good observation Hack!

[z3papa]

Hack's comment, while true, was pretty damn funny. Having the ability to rebuild the units is key in my mind if you are tracking or competing regularly.