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      01-18-2008, 02:12 PM   #23
karmasabish
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reach View Post
Are you kidding? Guys, its an air scoop. A PRE-FILTER air scoop. Give me a break. 20HP/Tq? Don't be delusional, you're making me laugh.

Smells like a troll to me. Is this your first spin around the block or what?

well, in comparison to "mods" like light bulbs and pedal sets and interior trim (no offense to anyone here). Something that's performance related is nice to see.
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      01-18-2008, 02:44 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karmasabish View Post
well, in comparison to "mods" like light bulbs and pedal sets and interior trim (no offense to anyone here). Something that's performance related is nice to see.
Offense taken.

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Supersprint Headers /w Jet Hot Coating
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iForged Aero with Nitto Invo tires

Hrmm.

Nope.. no rice on that list...
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      01-18-2008, 03:09 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reach View Post
Are you kidding? Guys, its an air scoop. A PRE-FILTER air scoop. Give me a break. 20HP/Tq? Don't be delusional, you're making me laugh.

Smells like a troll to me. Is this your first spin around the block or what?
So let me guess... you think 1000hp drag cars have the turbos mounted at the front of the car so they can suck in small animals, right?

Ever consider what a supercharger or turbo does? It compresses air...
Ever consider what an intake pointed to the front of the car does?
It compresses air (as long as the car is moving forward).

Go figure... air ducts DO do something!! Wow!!

Makes me wonder why there are even brake cooling ducts on the Z4M! must be there for show...
Cuz surely moving air can't cool brakes!
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      01-18-2008, 03:48 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPIpower View Post
70mph is just what our dyno fan is rated at. Our fan flows 70mph at 8ft from the front of the car. We do all our hp tests with the hood closed. The factory air ducting is very efficient but relies on vacuum to provide air to the engine. There is a small cup with 1/4 to 1/2 of a velocity stack. The scoop pictured above is the first prototype (laidback has been asking us for some time to make him one.). As with our scoops for the m5 and m6, the final design will be done on the car on the dyno. Its hard to tell from the picture but the scoop flares outward to provide a larger surface area to collect air. It them flares inward to help with air velocity going into the factory air duct. We conduct our tests in an "open house" manner so all are welcome to come watch our product testing. If the stuff works, you all can see. If it doesnt work, you all can see too. Its our priority to provide a good, funcitonal yet cost effective product to our customers.

I'd love to come watch and even take part in the testing if you'd let me...

But SOCAL is kinda far from NE. Anyway, have you optomised the shape of the scoop to perform best at 70 mph, or your fan conditions, and what's the change in efficiency as speed varies from the fan speed?

I guess I would like to know if you've engineered it from a compressible/incompressible fluid dynamics perspective or if you're just stuck a scoop behind the grill...
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      01-18-2008, 03:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dammmittt View Post
I'd love to come watch and even take part in the testing if you'd let me...

But SOCAL is kinda far from NE. Anyway, have you optomised the shape of the scoop to perform best at 70 mph, or your fan conditions, and what's the change in efficiency as speed varies from the fan speed?

I guess I would like to know if you've engineered it from a compressible/incompressible fluid dynamics perspective or if you're just stuck a scoop behind the grill...
YEAH!
what he said^^^^^
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      01-18-2008, 03:54 PM   #28
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      01-18-2008, 04:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dammmittt View Post
I guess I would like to know if you've engineered it from a compressible/incompressible fluid dynamics perspective or if you're just stuck a scoop behind the grill...
Are compressibility effects really going to be significant at Mach 0.1?
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      01-18-2008, 06:35 PM   #30
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You are right to a point. To expect double digit gains from a scoop while not at a high speed is a little to hopeful, especially on relatively the small displacement of the motor....

Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdm4k View Post
So let me guess... you think 1000hp drag cars have the turbos mounted at the front of the car so they can suck in small animals, right?

Ever consider what a supercharger or turbo does? It compresses air...
Ever consider what an intake pointed to the front of the car does?
It compresses air (as long as the car is moving forward).

Go figure... air ducts DO do something!! Wow!!

Makes me wonder why there are even brake cooling ducts on the Z4M! must be there for show...
Cuz surely moving air can't cool brakes!
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      01-18-2008, 06:58 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vachss View Post
Are compressibility effects really going to be significant at Mach 0.1?
I dunno...what's the velocity of the air in the pipe? If the external velocity is Mach .1 it doesn't necessarily make the internal velocity Mach .1

Inside the pipe it's duct flow. Compressibility effects are easy to compute if you know what the flow looks like inside the duct. And if the area of the duct is variable (converging/diverging) you're definately going to change densities...
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      01-18-2008, 07:09 PM   #32
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One more thing... Depending on the temperature...speed of sound is somewhere between 740-780 mph...so...if it's warm out and we go with the 780 mph value...

30 mph = M = 0.04
60 mph = M = 0.08
100 mph = M = 0.13

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      01-18-2008, 07:29 PM   #33
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Sorry for the late replies guys.

Skid Plates: In production and I should have a solid answer as far as eta and pricing goes for you. We expect pricing to be around or well under the $100 range.

Ram Air Scoops:

We make several changes to the scoops to optimize airflow and pressurization of air into the stock ducting. Laidback was here and he saw at the piles prototypes we did on the E60 and E63. Even the slightest angle change can affect how air pressurizes and flows into the ducting. For example, we flared the E63 scoops so that the gathered air was pressurized via slight decrease of scoop size into the factory duct opening. There is no question about the extra air that is coming into the engine with the ram air scoop. It is, however a funky design (somewhat horn shaped). The reason we have Laidback driving around with it is to get driving impressions and to see if there are any heat issues with the scoop in place. I've been getting a LOT of emails and posts about the scoops. I just ask that people be patient at this time so we can conduct our tests thoroughly. So far Laidback has given us great feedback but we would like to test it on a few cars. Those who are local and are willing to participate in the dyno testing phase, please CALL me (DO NOT PM or EMAIL ME) at 562-630-5966. Generally, we would like to see similar results on the dyno and on the street for atleast 4 cars. We prefer a stock car.

Here are updated pictures:











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      01-18-2008, 08:39 PM   #34
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Well, I'm glad to hear that you guys are big into experimental testing of your designs. Might be easier to do some analytical work before hand, but I understand nonetheless. I'm hoping that the tests are done with the bumper on, so that the affects of the grill are taken into account...
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      01-18-2008, 08:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbdm4k View Post
Offense taken.

Mods:
Supersprint Headers /w Jet Hot Coating
Dinan Muffler
CDV delete
Brembo 4pot BBK
iForged Aero with Nitto Invo tires

Hrmm.

Nope.. no rice on that list...

you need to calm down and actually read the post.

A) i never mentioned rice
B) i'm the one saying that performance mods are true mods, so what exactly are you so offended by?
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      01-18-2008, 08:47 PM   #36
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      01-18-2008, 09:15 PM   #37
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To the vendor:

I apologize if I came off harsh initially. I realize it wasn't you who posted the statements about perceived butt-dyno gains and ridiculous figures. Your posts actually prove you are quite level with your products and it looks like you make nice stuff. It is good to have someone making products like that around, always. I dont care if its turbo kits or light bulbs, just don't make thing X and expect it to give you thing Y.

To pbdm4k,

I'm not attacking you. Realize that there is more that goes into the design of air pipes on 1000HP cars and even true CAI kits. This, however, is a pre-filter air scoop. At speeds, it can allow a modest improvement in post filter flow, but it isn't going to be significant. It is not re-ducting the way the air moves into or through the engine and isn't allowing any higher flow capacity through the air box or filter, which is where the real bottle neck is. (and on BMWs, its still not very much of a bottle neck, the air box design is actually quite good.) Its just helping shove the air in there a little easier. Your comparisons are off base.
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      01-18-2008, 09:20 PM   #38
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Yup I was with Eloy the whole day and have seen him do some serious thinking, analyzing and measuring (while i was sitting comfortably in the shop)...RPI is top notch that's why i went with them on my mods (scoop and skid plates so far) as Eloy is a thinker before anything else and does not BS around...so far i have been having fun on the freeway and side street and no temp issues or whatsoever the only thing is my butt o meter is liking every throttle i give the Mcoupe...btw I have owned the Z4 Mcoupe for quite awhile and it's my daily driver so getting this scoops and skid plates are a plus
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      01-18-2008, 09:22 PM   #39
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Sounds like it, but they may save themselves some time and effort if they hire an aero engineer
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      01-18-2008, 09:37 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reach View Post
Realize that there is more that goes into the design of air pipes on 1000HP cars and even true CAI kits. This, however, is a pre-filter air scoop. At speeds, it can allow a modest improvement in post filter flow, but it isn't going to be significant. It is not re-ducting the way the air moves into or through the engine and isn't allowing any higher flow capacity through the air box or filter, which is where the real bottle neck is. (and on BMWs, its still not very much of a bottle neck, the air box design is actually quite good.) Its just helping shove the air in there a little easier. Your comparisons are off base.
True story!
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      01-18-2008, 09:49 PM   #41
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BTW laidback, I friggin love the car It seems like you got some good fun mods and I don't want to be a buzzkill, just a reality check. I mod my cars too, or I wouldn't be here.

Keep on motoring.
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      01-18-2008, 10:19 PM   #42
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LOL...Thanks and hope your a fan of my other project (it's at the shop right now getting some paint work done ) here are some pics :








Quote:
Originally Posted by Reach View Post
BTW laidback, I friggin love the car It seems like you got some good fun mods and I don't want to be a buzzkill, just a reality check. I mod my cars too, or I wouldn't be here.

Keep on motoring.
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      01-19-2008, 12:14 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laidback View Post
LOL...Thanks and hope your a fan of my other project (it's at the shop right now getting some paint work done ) here are some pics :



i love this car....
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      01-19-2008, 08:44 PM   #44
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Ok...I was at RPI and we were able to squeeze in some dyno time...so i will let you all on with a little bit of info...we dyno'd the car on Dyno dynamics (heart breaker is what we call this dyno as it puts down low numbers) my max on the Mcoupe was 277 stock (to the wheels) and for the RPI scoop we only did one or two pull and it dyno'd at 281 (to the wheels) these are very conservative numbers as we didn't have time to let the car cool down ( and also 7 guys waiting for the dyno) all dyno's were done with the hood closed...I ask Ely to order the BMC filter and we will try them on...we will do more testing and Eloy will chime in here i'm sure on some of his ideas...now I did some highway pulls in Mexico today with an M3 and on our previous runs am month ago we were dead on (60 miles till) and this time with the scoops ON... I pulled on him at 70 miles and just kept on pulling away...4 times we did and the same thing i pulled away...so there you go dyno and real world testing...and i'll try yo update asap as i get more info...again i would like to thank Eloy for even considering doing this mod which i am stoke right now...

Last edited by laidback; 01-19-2008 at 09:54 PM..
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