ZPOST
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   ZPOST > BMW Z4 Technical Talk > Engine, Exhaust, Drivetrain Modifications
  TireRack

SUPPORT ZPOST BY DOING YOUR TIRERACK SHOPPING FROM THIS BANNER, THANKS!
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-26-2011, 09:55 PM   #23
mfanatic325
///M-fanatic
mfanatic325's Avatar
Taiwan
192
Rep
3,885
Posts

Drives: '01 911 Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cupertino, CA.

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpower03 View Post
have you guys ever thought that maybe ess is over exaggeratting on how hard it is to tune our ecu's... after all all they sell is superchargers, and if they can discourage us from trying to go turbo'd then they are pretty much competition less. just a thought, but does anybody really now for a fact if it is that much more difficult.
This was my very suspicion. However, I gather that a low estimation would still be ~$10k for a turbo app. ECU, tuning, hardware and all inclusive.
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2011, 10:02 PM   #24
onelove
Track Head
onelove's Avatar
United_States
24
Rep
503
Posts

Drives: 07 Z4M
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Orlando,FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
Can you give me a ballpark of what's needed and what the costs are for piggyback or standalone for turbo application? I'm thinking V8 or V10 swap would be MORE expensive, no?

- Give me some namebrand ECUs to look into, that can possibly work with our MSS70
- I'm sure finding turbo hardware will be a piece of cake compared to everything else
- I know tuning costs will obviously not be very easy to estimate..
ECU cheap AEM $1500 / Motec $4500
Custom Patch Wiring Harness Figure $1500-2000
Tuning $1500-2000
+Misc Sensors, etc. $400-500

Of course the wiring can be eliminated if someone is capable with an electrical diagram and has know-how, and you may be able to snag a used ECU out there for cheap.

It's not that the MSS70 is harder to tune, it's that it's not as commonly used so most tuners would have to spend some time finding the proper maps / etc to change in the binary which takes some time, as well as buying the proper Check-sums, etc. I've had a few 1-2 friends in the industry tell me they could tune the ECU no problem, just I've never had the need or time to bring them the car. It's definitely not a "drop it off for 1-2 hours and I'll tune it" deal like a standalone, but it's also no the something that requires a team of Nasa engineers either.
__________________
2004 Porsche GT3 |White
HRE R40 Monoblocks | KW Clubsport Suspension | RSS Lower Control Arms and Suspension Links | GT3RS Wing and Front Bumper | Cup Car Lip | Euro GT3 Seat | GMG Half Cage | Europipe Exhaust | EPL Tuning
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2011, 11:35 PM   #25
mfanatic325
///M-fanatic
mfanatic325's Avatar
Taiwan
192
Rep
3,885
Posts

Drives: '01 911 Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cupertino, CA.

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by onelove View Post
ECU cheap AEM $1500 / Motec $4500
Custom Patch Wiring Harness Figure $1500-2000
Tuning $1500-2000
+Misc Sensors, etc. $400-500

Of course the wiring can be eliminated if someone is capable with an electrical diagram and has know-how, and you may be able to snag a used ECU out there for cheap.

It's not that the MSS70 is harder to tune, it's that it's not as commonly used so most tuners would have to spend some time finding the proper maps / etc to change in the binary which takes some time, as well as buying the proper Check-sums, etc. I've had a few 1-2 friends in the industry tell me they could tune the ECU no problem, just I've never had the need or time to bring them the car. It's definitely not a "drop it off for 1-2 hours and I'll tune it" deal like a standalone, but it's also no the something that requires a team of Nasa engineers either.
Sigh...I need to have access to capable people like that. Especially with friendly hookups
Appreciate 0
      05-26-2011, 11:38 PM   #26
onelove
Track Head
onelove's Avatar
United_States
24
Rep
503
Posts

Drives: 07 Z4M
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Orlando,FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
Sigh...I need to have access to capable people like that. Especially with friendly hookups
The bad thing, the best guys are booked months out, so friendly hookups are hard to get. Even the friendly hookups are more expensive than the cheap guys, but it's worth every penny.

If anyone is truely serious about doing one of these kits, I can put you in touch with one of the best EFI guys in the business, he doesn't come cheap but his work speaks for itself, and he'll save you more with time and headaches saved, than money.
__________________
2004 Porsche GT3 |White
HRE R40 Monoblocks | KW Clubsport Suspension | RSS Lower Control Arms and Suspension Links | GT3RS Wing and Front Bumper | Cup Car Lip | Euro GT3 Seat | GMG Half Cage | Europipe Exhaust | EPL Tuning
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 12:03 AM   #27
mfanatic325
///M-fanatic
mfanatic325's Avatar
Taiwan
192
Rep
3,885
Posts

Drives: '01 911 Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cupertino, CA.

iTrader: (23)

If I somehow sell my MR2, I'd be needing your friend's #
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 12:57 AM   #28
ZooyorQ
Private First Class
11
Rep
147
Posts

Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

We're building a Turbo Z4M right now. We're sticking with the stock ECU (vs a E46 M3 ecu swap) and 'piggybacking' with a ProEFI. It will be running E85/Flexfuel and will have some pretty trick stuff done to it. We just delivered the car to ProEFI last weekend and we'll be bringing it to the fab once the wiring harnesses are completed/etc. The car will be back up in the bay area in probably a month and a half. Goal is GTX35R, and roughly 500rwhp. Stock internals for now.. next step probably in the winter will be alow compression build and a GTX37 or slightly larger with 650rwhp. Goal is keep its trackability as thats where this car will shine.

I'm sure either myself (or my buddy as its technically his car) will create a build thread once we get a bit deeper into the process. The car is just now going under the knife.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 01:08 AM   #29
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
701
Rep
7,850
Posts

Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

^ Can't wait to see more on this!
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 01:13 AM   #30
ZooyorQ
Private First Class
11
Rep
147
Posts

Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
^ Can't wait to see more on this!
Thanks, wait till you see what's being done with the 'pop-up' nav. A full blown color display monitoring clutch pressure, radiator pressure, boost, g's, etc.. will all be on display in the pop-up. Which can easily be hidden for 'street driving'.





The ProEFI ECU will also be datalogging everything via GPS. 60', 100', lateral g's, etc.. track mapping.. all automatically to an SD card.

Its going to be nuts!


Edit: We're removing the NAV/Radio/Etc.. and will be relocating it to where the current CD/Radio unit is, or replacing it entirely with a aftermarket doubledin.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 01:26 AM   #31
mfanatic325
///M-fanatic
mfanatic325's Avatar
Taiwan
192
Rep
3,885
Posts

Drives: '01 911 Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cupertino, CA.

iTrader: (23)

Holy shit! Do you think your friend would let me check out and possibly test-drive the car once it's done? I'm from the South Bay
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 01:28 AM   #32
ZooyorQ
Private First Class
11
Rep
147
Posts

Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
Holy shit! Do you think your friend would let me check out and possibly test-drive the car once it's done? I'm from the South Bay
I can't say whether or not he'd let you test drive it, but I'm certain he'd give you a ride. We're in the southbay as well.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 01:33 AM   #33
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
701
Rep
7,850
Posts

Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

Nuts is a understatement for the whole concept, including the re-purposing of the Nav. Holy cow!
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 01:38 AM   #34
mfanatic325
///M-fanatic
mfanatic325's Avatar
Taiwan
192
Rep
3,885
Posts

Drives: '01 911 Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cupertino, CA.

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZooyorQ View Post
I can't say whether or not he'd let you test drive it, but I'm certain he'd give you a ride. We're in the southbay as well.
Yessssssssss, at least a ride would be awesome
Could you PM me your guys' info? I definitely wanna stay in touch
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 01:41 AM   #35
ZooyorQ
Private First Class
11
Rep
147
Posts

Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mfanatic325 View Post
Yessssssssss, at least a ride would be awesome
Could you PM me your guys' info? I definitely wanna stay in touch
We'll be starting a thread here once things start progressing. Right now we're still hashing things out and in the discovery process. I'm guessing a thread will start in 2 weeks as thats when the fabbing will begin.

No worries, we're anxious to share the progress as I know many Z4M owners have been neglected as far as having options. I believe AA might be working on a kit, but I've also heard that it fell through. So really you only have ESS as an option right now. They make great stuff, but many would love a turbo option. We'll be divulging everything as far as where we run into issues, whats feasable, what isn't.. etc. This isn't a 'secret' project. So stay tuned
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 02:59 AM   #36
beta
Lieutenant Colonel
80
Rep
1,663
Posts

Drives: 2006 M Roadster
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: CA

iTrader: (2)

Subscribed. I'm also in the south bay, can't wait to see where this goes. The more I see these threads, the more I think that I'll eventually get a coupe and murder it out for track duty. That way I can keep my roadster stock for DD
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 03:34 AM   #37
mfanatic325
///M-fanatic
mfanatic325's Avatar
Taiwan
192
Rep
3,885
Posts

Drives: '01 911 Turbo
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cupertino, CA.

iTrader: (23)

Quote:
Originally Posted by beta View Post
...the more I think that I'll eventually get a coupe and murder it out for track duty. That way I can keep my roadster stock for DD
What a baller!
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 06:25 AM   #38
onelove
Track Head
onelove's Avatar
United_States
24
Rep
503
Posts

Drives: 07 Z4M
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Orlando,FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZooyorQ View Post
We're building a Turbo Z4M right now. We're sticking with the stock ECU (vs a E46 M3 ecu swap) and 'piggybacking' with a ProEFI. It will be running E85/Flexfuel and will have some pretty trick stuff done to it. We just delivered the car to ProEFI last weekend and we'll be bringing it to the fab once the wiring harnesses are completed/etc. The car will be back up in the bay area in probably a month and a half. Goal is GTX35R, and roughly 500rwhp. Stock internals for now.. next step probably in the winter will be alow compression build and a GTX37 or slightly larger with 650rwhp. Goal is keep its trackability as thats where this car will shine.

I'm sure either myself (or my buddy as its technically his car) will create a build thread once we get a bit deeper into the process. The car is just now going under the knife.
You're in good hands with Jason on the ECU side, are you having the hardware done in Arizona as well or just the electronics side?
__________________
2004 Porsche GT3 |White
HRE R40 Monoblocks | KW Clubsport Suspension | RSS Lower Control Arms and Suspension Links | GT3RS Wing and Front Bumper | Cup Car Lip | Euro GT3 Seat | GMG Half Cage | Europipe Exhaust | EPL Tuning
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 08:29 AM   #39
ZStig
instagram 997turbotom
279
Rep
7,376
Posts

Drives: Interlagos Z4MR
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Delray Beach, FL

iTrader: (4)

Great news for us torque lovers!
__________________
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 11:40 AM   #40
ZooyorQ
Private First Class
11
Rep
147
Posts

Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by onelove View Post
You're in good hands with Jason on the ECU side, are you having the hardware done in Arizona as well or just the electronics side?
The fabbing will be done in Tampa, FL most likely. Jason at ProEFI is definitely capabale of amazing feats. My M3 is getting a ProEFI swap right now.
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 12:04 PM   #41
onelove
Track Head
onelove's Avatar
United_States
24
Rep
503
Posts

Drives: 07 Z4M
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Orlando,FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZooyorQ View Post
The fabbing will be done in Tampa, FL most likely. Jason at ProEFI is definitely capabale of amazing feats. My M3 is getting a ProEFI swap right now.
Whose doing it in Tampa ? Other than C2 don't know of many other shops there capable off the top of my head.
__________________
2004 Porsche GT3 |White
HRE R40 Monoblocks | KW Clubsport Suspension | RSS Lower Control Arms and Suspension Links | GT3RS Wing and Front Bumper | Cup Car Lip | Euro GT3 Seat | GMG Half Cage | Europipe Exhaust | EPL Tuning
Appreciate 0
      05-27-2011, 12:18 PM   #42
ZooyorQ
Private First Class
11
Rep
147
Posts

Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by onelove View Post
Whose doing it in Tampa ? Other than C2 don't know of many other shops there capable off the top of my head.
Lutz Performance

They've done quite a few one off turbo BMW's. Their fabricator Shawn is incredible as well.
Appreciate 0
      05-30-2011, 11:15 PM   #43
mpower03
Captain
United_States
39
Rep
962
Posts

Drives: 08 z4 M Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: FL

iTrader: (2)

a friend of mine is good friends with the owner of lutz... he said they know there stuff
__________________
Appreciate 0
      07-15-2011, 01:47 AM   #44
ZooyorQ
Private First Class
11
Rep
147
Posts

Drives: BMW M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpower03 View Post
a friend of mine is good friends with the owner of lutz... he said they know there stuff
Andrew & Shawn at Lutz have been very helpful w/my friends build. We're hoping to have upates here w/pics by end of next week. The build got even more involved over the last month or so. Lets just say.. top mount and lots of insane fabrication .. chromed out. The engine bay is going to be absolutely insane.. I'm pumped to see it.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:01 AM.




zpost
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST