Euro CSL Headers damaged?

[RobMCoupe]

I like an opinion on the headers I purchased recently from a forum member. The pics sent to me before the purchase appear OK. When I received it, there are dents on both headers. Do the dents effect the function of the headers?

The last picture dated 27/03/2011 is from the seller. The other pictures are when I received it. I thought it was damged during shipping. My shop looked at it and dents look like it was used for leverage to pry on something.

[johanness]

Looks like rats have been at em

[fighting_fish]

It looks like something was sprayed and still wet on the middle dents (the ones that are 2 parallel gashes with one perpendicular) and then you see the dried residue in the after pictures. The dents that are 3 perpendicular are not noticeable in the original picture as far as I can see.

If this was not disclosed before sale I'd be unhappy.

[Z4-VILLA]

quit crying.... i got the exact same headers on mine and they less than perfect....put 2000 degree jet hot coating as i did and be done with it......I got them on now and they are amazing.....you probably got them for a good deal too. Your wasting time expressing imperfections on second hand headers (which should be expected anyways) when you could be setting off car alarms 300 hundred feet away.... Who cares how they look and as long as they dont leak.....well ive said enough.
justbe thankful you got the mod to begin with

[RobMCoupe]

Originally Posted by Z4-Villalona

quit crying.... i got the exact same headers on mine and they less than perfect....put 2000 degree jet hot coating as i did and be done with it......I got them on now and they are amazing.....you probably got them for a good deal too. Your wasting time expressing imperfections on second hand headers (which should be expected anyways) when you could be setting off car alarms 300 hundred feet away.... Who cares how they look and as long as they dont leak.....well ive said enough.
justbe thankful you got the mod to begin with

Who is crying here. I am asking for opinion about the damage which wasn't disclosed or damaged during shipping. I am sure most people will be unhappy when you compare the pictures. There are two questions I like answer for.

1. Do the dents effect the function of the header?
2. Can the dents be from shipping?

[mfanatic325]

Rob, I highly doubt the dents could be caused from shipping. It takes a good bit of force to damage these header piping like so. However, I also personally believe that the dents won't make a difference in the functionality of the headers. It's down to the matter of whether you think the cost was justifiable or not. Good luck either way!

[pokeybritches]

I would be unhappy if the information wasn't disclosed, more for the dishonesty (or less-likely, oversight) than anything else. The course of action I would take depends on the price paid. Do they affect functionality? Probably, but somewhat insignificantly. :making up a number: ~1-2 hp max.

The closer you get to the engine block, the more critical it is to have a well-designed exhaust system because the exhaust gasses are hot and moving quickly. I'm not a ME, but I'd venture to say the bend design is more important than the straight sections of pipes based on what I know about fluids. So, the damage appears to be in a bad spot. However...

In a hydraulic system, it's undesirable to have a 90 degree bend before a pump - it creates turbulence which causes cavitation. As you get further away from the bend, the turbulence smooths out and the flow becomes laminar. Why do I say this? Because I believe whatever turbulence that damage creates within the bend will be smoothed out and non-existent by the time that cylinder's exhaust header combines with the others. The loss in performance will be isolated to that cylinder alone because the turbulence won't be introduced into the flow of the other cylinder's exhaust headers.

The largest horsepower gain comes from the removal of the catalytic converters. From what I've read, Euro headers alone give about a 10-15 whp gain. And while it's somewhat "ricer math," you can divide 12.5 hp by 6 and get ~2 hp per cylinder. Will that cylinder's header flow better with the damage but no cat? I think so. That's where I came up with the 1 hp figure. A real engineer would probably kill me for such a broad generalization and assumption, but I think it's accurate.

Maybe Gio can chime in, as he's designing a full exhaust system for the M.

[Rated M]

I would definitely reach out to the seller and figure out what they are going to do. That's false advertising.....


And just to protect other members and vouch for a buddy... We all know who has been selling euro headers on this forum, and I can 100% guarantee these didn't come from starscream!


I'll let you do your own research, but buyer beware!

[inTgr8r]

I agree everyone here (well almost everyone )

This is definitely not shipping damage and if it was not disclosed at time of purchase it should have been.

[XMetal]

If you pay close attention to the original picture, it looks like the damage is already present. It's just less noticeable on the original picture because of the discoloring (or paint) in that area and camera angle.

[onelove]

Looks like it was in the original picture as well. I wouldn't be too worried about it, it may be possible for a good metal shop to cut that section out and weld in a new section, or fill the area and have em coated if aesthetically it bothers you that much.

[Beedub]

i hope this wasnt from one of my fellow uk Zers... imo im sorry but that is completely unacceptable, id want my money back.... simple as that.... why the hell would you want to take off your good manifold to add this battered heap instead..... no way.

OP ignore the mentality of forget this issue... hell no, unless you were aware of this from the off, i WOULD not put this on my ///M.

to the Seller you suck ASS!!

[-c-]

You can see the damage in the original pic ....looked like it was doctored up so it wasn't noticeable. I wonder if you took it to a dent wizard if they could work that out before you install it.

[-c-]

A friend of mine had a dent in his header and an exhaust guy heated up the pipe and worked out the dent from the inside

[NickyC]

They're obviously busted beyond repair and are scrap. I'll take 'em off your hands for $100 shipped.


I kid, I kid.

[fighting_fish]

What bothers me the most is that the damage was hidden by some kind of paint or oil (which is shiny and probably wet in the original picture). Then in your pictures you can see the marks of that liquid now dry (which means it wasn't even cleaned off with a rag). VERY shady. Is it me or is it damaged in two separate places?

If you cannot reach an agreement with the seller I'd give us a heads up so we don't do business with that person. The damage should've been disclosed in the ad.

[Z4-VILLA]

Originally Posted by fighting_fish

What bothers me the most is that the damage was hidden by some kind of paint or oil (which is shiny and probably wet in the original picture). Then in your pictures you can see the marks of that liquid now dry (which means it wasn't even cleaned off with a rag). VERY shady. Is it me or is it damaged in two separate places?

If you cannot reach an agreement with the seller I'd give us a heads up so we don't do business with that person. The damage should've been disclosed in the ad.

i aggree

[Z4Murder]

agreed with most here. it looks like the "paint" was a cover up. and if something like those dents werent disclosed, i would demand money back or a complete refund.

[RobMCoupe]

The seller never discloeed the damaged prior to purchased. I thought the dark spot was cosmetic from discolor. It was purchased from a UK forum memeber. PM was sent to seller for a return and full refund. As you probably guess, no reply from seller.

I will not disclose the seller handle for now. Hopefully, original seller will PM me to work this out. If not, I will go through Paypal to see if they can help.

Thanks for all the comments. I will post a follow up in a few days.

[-c-]

I know it sucks that this happened but it really isn't that bad and fixable, I would first take it to a custom muffler shop let them heat up the pipe and spoon the marks out, and it will be back to normal, then have them coated inside and out. But do this as a last resort if nobody helps out. It's right near the opening so it would be easy to spoon out the marks. To me its less stressful to fix it and wish karma on the seller and move on. But I wish you complete satisfaction in getting this resolved.

[Beedub]

rob m coupe a quick message calling the UK owner out on he z4 forum will cause enough embarressment for him to act, if its the person im thinking of he's very well known on that forum and will be forced to act........

Not impressed......

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by -c-

I know it sucks that this happened but it really isn't that bad and fixable, I would first take it to a custom muffler shop let them heat up the pipe and spoon the marks out, and it will be back to normal, then have them coated inside and out. But do this as a last resort if nobody helps out. It's right near the opening so it would be easy to spoon out the marks. To me its less stressful to fix it and wish karma on the seller and move on. But I wish you complete satisfaction in getting this resolved.

why should he have to pay to get them rectified?? sorry but when im buying from the US, you guys have a DUTY to be honest with me and Always have been, UK sellers no better and need to be pulled up on this.

byron