z4 2.5 to m motor transplant

[mkivbora]

ok so basically my motor is getting higher into the high miles 70k, and im looking to swap to the m engine,tranny will everything wiring harness wise match. i understand i will have to get ecu from the m . but is this possible. i figure swaping in a lower miles engine is better way and i dont want to go back to a 2.5.

need advice thank you.

[Chris04Z4]

got 82k on my and still going strong.. 3.0i though.. unfortunatly everything else on the car is falling apart lol

i'll end up doing this too prob.... either that or an LS1 swap

[03BeastCharmer]

70k miles is not a lot. I have 78K miles on my M5 engine, and my friend has 130K miles on his M5 engine. I would not be concerned about the engine at 70K. If you really want the M engine I'd recommend just selling your car and getting an M as the amount of pain and cost to get all the systems to work to transplant the S54 into your car will be more than just buying the car in teh 1st place....

[psygnosis]

This is a BMW engine, not a rotary, it should have another 100k in it at the least.

[misterawa]

I have 81K on my moded 2.5i and it's still runing like a champ. I actually don't consider it too high for a BMW motor. I agree with 03BeastCharmer, if you really want a M motor, then sell you 2.5i and buy a M. It would be a lot of work plus $$$ to do the swap.

[The__J__Factor]

Yeh 70k is no where near the end of an engines life.

Swaps are always a pain in the ass - and i dont think the s54 would be cheap to find in good condition.

[mkivbora]

pulling a motor is not an issue i do it all the time. im just not too keen on bmw's . as its n=my daily but i understand that 70k isnt a lot im saying like pull it at 150k but its nearing that point so i thought id throw the idea out there. one of my friends owns hpf so engines are not hard to find. back to my topic has this been done?

[mkivbora]

it would take me 8 hours to pull and swap this motor out and put a new one in it. not that hard. plus i dont plan on ever selling this car. And too me its easier and more fun to modify what i have , i have a machine shop, dyno lifts all at my disposal free to use anytime so these projects are fun for me. i understand it would be easier to sell and buy a m but as a project when its higher miles. , in then end ill probably swap for a 2.5 anyhow. but its an idear

i have custom exhaust on car, soon headers getting those custom made i dont like the price tag on the supersprint when it will cost me 300 tops for parts , tuned, new bored out throttle body(didnt want to buy a dinan one so i made one) custom intake with ram air. and the sprint drive by wire voltage mod, cams.. so the car does great right now and is about 250 crank hp.

i like it but i was just thinking could it be done. thats all i like the 2.5 and the milage i get . it just deemed on me today and i wanted to know if it could be done. if not ill stick with what ive got and when the time comes swap a new lower miles 2.5 in.

[mousitch]

You got that 2.5 up too 250Hp? I'd be happy with that. That's quite a boost in itself. Going from 184 to 250 with intake and throttle body?

[mkivbora]

like i said crank hp. not wheel. custom tune. and running race gas and it says on the dyno 246.7 so close. want the dyno sheet ? if you want rear wheel,Multiply by 0.82 (202.294 rwhp) so not a big jump from 185 . i also have a vbn file from the vbox if you want to analyze the data and see where my numbers are. by using a little math and a graph its spot on!!

btw this is my gf daily driver.

[trsbmw]

Originally Posted by mkivbora

like i said crank hp. not wheel. custom tune. and running race gas and it says on the dyno 246.7 so close. want the dyno sheet ? if you want rear wheel,Multiply by 0.82 for rwhp.(202.294 rwhp) so not a big jump from 185!

Your comparison is wrong. BMW publishes bhp values for power (brake horse power, aka crank hp) stock z4 2.5 = 185 bhp.. You have to understand the skepticism instilled with a claim of 60 hp gained based on the mods you mention.

Also, it sounds like you are fairly confident in your abilities, why bother asking a forum whether you can do something you claim you can do in 8 hours??

[Thisisdudewhoru]

Yea get your buddy that owns hpf to help you. Better yet, just swap the new m3 v8 in a bitch.

[pokeybritches]

The standard Z4 gets much more than 82% crank power to the ground. It's closer to 90% with a manual transmission. Dynamometers are only useful for showing a horsepower delta, not an absolute power. So unless a car is dynoed before and after mods, under the same test conditions, your result is going to be worth less than the paper its printed on (unless maybe comparing two different cars on the same day and dyno).

70k miles is not high miles, and it is nowhere near 150k miles. You're looking at 3-4 years down the road at least. Since the last iteration of the S54 was produced in 2008, good luck finding a low mileage junk car. A new crate engine will run you about $17k.

There is absolutely no way you're getting 250 crank hp from a 2.5 without some very serious modifications. http://www.my330i.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8770 That is what a naturally aspirated M54 build looks like, and he was far from 100 hp/liter.

If you really are able to transplant a BMW engine in 8 hours, and you're set on swapping a transmission too, go with an E9x M3 V8 or the V10 from the M5. Since you say you can custom fabricate all kinds of parts, you will find those engines more of a playground. BMW left a lot more on the table with the S65/S85 (92 mm bore and 75.2 mm stroke) compared to the S54 (87 mm bore and 91 mm stroke, had to look these up). You're going to be much more likely to find a low mileage used engine when you turn over 150k miles.

[mkivbora]

Originally Posted by trsbmw

Your comparison is wrong. BMW publishes bhp values for power (brake horse power, aka crank hp) stock z4 2.5 = 185 bhp.. You have to understand the skepticism instilled with a claim of 60 hp gained based on the mods you mention.

Also, it sounds like you are fairly confident in your abilities, why bother asking a forum whether you can do something you claim you can do in 8 hours??

like i said im not a bmw guy so to speak . i was wondering if it has been done? and if it is painful process mainly the wiriing etc. I build mostly corvettes, 240's, supra's and play around with my vw. . here are a few cars ive been playing with!!!

http://www.youtube.com/user/rubbaducksqur

Ive done motor swap's in supra's and vw's in less than 8 hours. it could be the same and or different with bmw's so its nice to ask people who have experience with there cars. and what they know about them, (hence why forums are around).

i understand people and there skeptics although dyno's rarely lie. and i did not to base dyno before mods, with the cam's and the custom exhaust and intake and re tune with race gas the gains were intense although on pump fuel im sure our numbers are less. i bet a significant loss. since i added the sprint and the throttle body i only see a change in throttle response. its a little more snappy. the 246 bhp was at the peak and that was with no heat soak a dry run a one time thing . i doubt it puts down that power after heat soak! my mid range was around 215-220bhp and that is what id call my actual bhp and what i should say but im greedy and usually say what was the peak. (as do most people) There is a clutch and lightweight flywheel in the car as well.

I dont bother they guys out at hpf, they are very busy 2 1/2 month back log of cars to be done. Im saving for a M3 and to do a stage 1 in the next year. so soon enough. ha ha

the headers should be finished in a matter of weeks and then i shall pull the motor any how for fitment and will find out how long it takes me to pull it.
i will post video of dyno and pictures my setup on the car when headers are installed , along with a vbn file to show data of it in action. hopefully some of you can read this data. i am a firm believer in the vbox all should own one.

[mkivbora]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

The standard Z4 gets much more than 82% crank power to the ground. It's closer to 90% with a manual transmission. Dynamometers are only useful for showing a horsepower delta, not an absolute power. So unless a car is dynoed before and after mods, under the same test conditions, your result is going to be worth less than the paper its printed on (unless maybe comparing two different cars on the same day and dyno).

70k miles is not high miles, and it is nowhere near 150k miles. You're looking at 3-4 years down the road at least. Since the last iteration of the S54 was produced in 2008, good luck finding a low mileage junk car. A new crate engine will run you about $17k.

There is absolutely no way you're getting 250 crank hp from a 2.5 without some very serious modifications. http://www.my330i.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8770 That is what a naturally aspirated M54 build looks like, and he was far from 100 hp/liter.

If you really are able to transplant a BMW engine in 8 hours, and you're set on swapping a transmission too, go with an E9x M3 V8 or the V10 from the M5. Since you say you can custom fabricate all kinds of parts, you will find those engines more of a playground. BMW left a lot more on the table with the S65/S85 (92 mm bore and 75.2 mm stroke) compared to the S54 (87 mm bore and 91 mm stroke, had to look these up). You're going to be much more likely to find a low mileage used engine when you turn over 150k miles.

ever heard of copart.com . i see wrecked m3's on there all the time for 10k. if i only need the motor a part out is fine with me its not about the $.

a v8 swap would be nice but there goes the mileage . I have read that guys build before and that is where my motivation came from. but id didnt think he used race gas .

as for the .82 that was an estimated guess . so thanks for the correct drivetrain loss.

thanks for the constructive criticism i appreciate it.

[pokeybritches]

Good luck with your build, hope it all works out. Honestly, the S54 doesn't get that great of gas mileage. If you're concerned about your gas mileage you're probably on a budget- if it was me I'd go with a supercharger, because when it comes time to sell the car you can part out the supercharger and get some of your money back. But, I don't know how it'd react to the mods you already have, and it doesn't satisfy your goal of getting a newer low-mileage engine- only more horsepower. ESS would be able to help you if you're interested in going that route. I've never done it or known anyone personally to do it, but I don't think an S54 would be a simple drop in replacement as so many systems are electronically interdependent in these cars. I'll leave that for someone more knowledgeable than me to answer...

The electric steering on the standard Z4s help get a small percentage more power to the ground, and it helps get the car better gas mileage. That combined with less distance between the engine and rear wheels reduces the mechanical losses slightly when compared to other cars.

My point with finding an S54 is that yes, there are plenty low mileage engines out there now, but in 3-4 years when you reach 150k miles and want one they may not be around. They stopped making the S54 M3 in 2006, and the Z4M was a very low volume car.

Anyway, good luck and I hope someone can answer your questions better than I can. It'd be a very interesting build, that's for sure.

[Thisisdudewhoru]

Lol at talking about a 10k+ swap and gas mileage. Guy's a fluke. I'm putting a 2jz in my M coupe YO!

[mkivbora]

Originally Posted by Thisisdudewhoru

Lol at talking about a 10k+ swap and gas mileage. Guy's a fluke. I'm putting a 2jz in my M coupe YO!

ok mister.. that isnt bad idea .. a guy just swapped a 2jz in a e46 . so it can be done.
check this out..http://forum.E46Fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=700436
in the current setting its nice to see 30mpg i dont give a rats ass about mileage but its nice to keep it on your mind.. the vette im working on has 695whp and gets 26mpg on the highway. explain that. 10k is nothing when your doing a motor swap and or build. i have a passion for this and when i get down to it throwing a bunch of money around isnt a big deal. its cars its my love . so whatever. when all your friends are arab's and are oil rich and building there cars is what there all about you realize to get what you want throwing $50Grand into a car isnt shit.

all and all i want your advice not your a fake , its rude. im on a forum asking advice . give it and i shall return with an amazing build thread. im mainly concerned with the wiring harness . if anyone knows that would be great.

thank you

[mousitch]

I think the wiring would be a bitch. Not sure where what direction I point you to there. All the sensors and different engine management issues.

[mkivbora]

Originally Posted by mousitch

I think the wiring would be a bitch. Not sure where what direction I point you to there. All the sensors and different engine management issues.

thats why it was a ? could it be done. im not saying im doing the swap. just was wondering could it!> if its too pain in the ass. ill stick with a 2.5 and buying a engine and tranny now while there are low mileage cars out there destroyed.

i was wondering if all the wiring was the same . plus or minus a few things senors etc. and if swaping to a s54 dme worked . i mean this is common on vw's wiring harness is basically the same for a 1.9t, 1.8t and vr6 +or- a few things . then you swap the ecu. and its good to go.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by mkivbora

thats why it was a ? could it be done. im not saying im doing the swap. just was wondering could it

Could it be done? Yes. Would it be stupid? Definitely.

How could it be done? The E85 Z4 is based on the E46 3-series, and there are a couple of examples of E46 sedan owners swapping converting their cars to M3s, the most infamous a student at MIT. Do a search for MITE46 on e46fanatics. It's incredibly involved - you pretty much have to re-do all the wiring, convert ECUs, etc. The parts are just the beginning.

Why's it stupid? Well, any conversion would run you more than $10,000 in parts and labor, even with a sweetheart deal from the gang at HPF. In the meantime, you can sell your Z4 2.5 for bit over $10k and you can find a Z4MR for a bit over $20k. So, why do some bodgejob on your 2.5 when for the same money you can buy the real thing?

[mousitch]

WOW...

http://e46.mit.edu/