Michelin PS2's more expensive than PSS?

[elwesso]

I was doing some casual browsing on TireRack, and in a few different sizes I checked the old PS2's were significantly more expensive than the PSS... I thought that was very unusual seeing how the PSS's are supposed to be the predecessor to the PS2's, you'd think the prices for the PS2's would be less especially if they're trying to phase them out.

According to TireRack, the prices are as following for the following sizes.

265-35-18
PS2- $361/ea
PSS- $263/ea

245-40-18
PS2- $312
PSS- $243
PS3- $308

225-45-18
PS2- $217
PSS- $220

275-35-18
PS2- $412
PSS- $275

Those would be the most interesting sizes to Z owners here, and that's quite a significant difference.. It seems that most people's reviews here on the PSS's is that they're superior to the PS2's, but maybe there's something we're missing?

The PS2's have a 220 treadwear rating, where the PSS's have a 300 treadwear rating. As we all know typically the lower the threadwear rating the more grip you get, especially when comparing inside the same brand.. Obviously comparing treadwear ratings from brand to brand isn't necessarily a fair comparison.

For such a significant difference, it would appear to me that you gotta be paying for SOMETHING...

EDIT: After doing a little digging, I found this article which is interesting:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...t/viewall.html

Seems that the PS3's and PSS are the same tire, just that they're called PS3's in Europe where in the US they're called PSS.

[Finnegan]

PSS is a multi-compound tire. Endurance rubber on the outside of the tire, stickier stuff inboard, etc. with newer compounds in the entire mix. That's how it has a better wear rating while performing at levels above the PS2.

I don't know why it's cheaper. Maybe there's still an incentive in place to get folks to try it? In any case, PSS is a great dry and great wet tire. Best wet tire I've driven in fact.

[sixspeed]

Originally Posted by elwesso

I was doing some casual browsing on TireRack, and in a few different sizes I checked the old PS2's were significantly more expensive than the PSS... I thought that was very unusual seeing how the PSS's are supposed to be the predecessor to the PS2's, you'd think the prices for the PS2's would be less especially if they're trying to phase them out.

According to TireRack, the prices are as following for the following sizes.

265-35-18
PS2- $361/ea
PSS- $263/ea

245-40-18
PS2- $312
PSS- $243
PS3- $308

225-45-18
PS2- $217
PSS- $220

275-35-18
PS2- $412
PSS- $275

Those would be the most interesting sizes to Z owners here, and that's quite a significant difference.. It seems that most people's reviews here on the PSS's is that they're superior to the PS2's, but maybe there's something we're missing?

The PS2's have a 220 treadwear rating, where the PSS's have a 300 treadwear rating. As we all know typically the lower the threadwear rating the more grip you get, especially when comparing inside the same brand.. Obviously comparing treadwear ratings from brand to brand isn't necessarily a fair comparison.

For such a significant difference, it would appear to me that you gotta be paying for SOMETHING...

EDIT: After doing a little digging, I found this article which is interesting:

http://www.motortrend.com/features/p...t/viewall.html

Seems that the PS3's and PSS are the same tire, just that they're called PS3's in Europe where in the US they're called PSS.

The PS2 is no longer in production. The higher price probably reflects availability since they'll be hard to find.

The PSS is a newer tire that combines increased grip with longer life through newly developed compounds realised from Michelin's involvement with endurance racing.

In the UK, we get both the PS3 and PSS. They are NOT the same tire. The PS3 is a mid-performance tyre, that effectively replaced the old Pilot Exalto. There is a lot of mis-information about the PS3 being the replacement for the PS2, which is understandable given the name of the tire. However, it is not the case. It is suspected that Michelin chose the name to cash in on the success/popularity of the PS2. The PSS is the natural replacement for the PS2, being Michelin's extreme performance summer road tire.

[ANUSTART]

Glad I hadn't ordered my wheel tire package yet. Looks like I'll put a set of PSSs on them. That's quite a value. Thanks for posting this!

[beta]

Originally Posted by hogzilla

Glad I hadn't ordered my wheel tire package yet. Looks like I'll put a set of PSSs on them. That's quite a value. Thanks for posting this!

I've turned a few of my coworkers who were still buying PS2s. Explained to them that PSS were better, cheaper, and lasted longer. At first they didn't believe me but a little searching and the info checks out.

[avsbmw]

Good to know as I am about to buy another set of tires. I think I'll be going with PSS

[inTgr8r]

its really about time that we start to see some new technology in tires.
Some of the old standbys (Star specs etc) have been around for a long time now.

[zubydafa]

for a track tire i would still use PS2 over PSS. my last few track experiences have been on PSS, and while they're brilliant and predictable, PS2 will outperform.

i believe, someone chime in if they can link the comparo, there was a report done on PS2 vs PSS on the same car (F12?) and PS2 outperformed.

[inTgr8r]

there were other reviews that rank the PSS above Star Specs & Hankook Ventus R-S3
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...omparison-test

i take all such tests with a grain of salt.

[elwesso]

It would seem to me that the faster a tire wears out the more grip you get... Even though technology might be great, there comes a line where you can't get something for nothing. I'd have a hard time believing that the PSS can out perform AND last longer than the PS2s.. I believe they last longer because of the tread wear number, but if they out perform is a different story.

I really wish there was a more objective way of comparing tires, like to numerically quantify the various attributes of a tire so it's easier to directly compare rather than on someone elses's subjective opinion.. Just like on an engine, 400HP is 400HP regardless if it comes from 3 cylinders or 30 cylinders, or 100 rpm or 10,000 RPM.

[Finnegan]

I'd say that if we're talking mainly track use vs. street, then we should not be looking at PS2s or PSS. Rcomps, or a extreme summer performance tire like the g-force rival, Star Spec, RS-3, NT-05 are better choices. Then again The Hack was pretty impressed with the PSS, and his opinion carries weight with me.

But if we're talking mainly street and occasional track, the PSS shines. It's got that endurance outer rubber to hold up in corners, while offering superior wet traction to any of the extreme summer performance tires. My wife can drive her Z 10-15 MPH faster than I can in the rain. I'm hydroplaning with my NT05s at those faster speeds and it's unsafe. The PSS is safe and solid and happy. Likewise, under 50 degrees my tires drop off quickly. Not so with the PSS until under 40 degrees. And even then it's gradual.

For a car that sees more than dry/warm weather, and if you have one setup only, the PSS is the way to go IMO. I'm getting a stock sized set of PSS for my stock wheels next fall, and I'll run that and keep my other set/tires for warm weather and track.

Edit: If I get a chance I'll try the PSS vs. NT-05 tomorrow at Thunderhill raceway.

[beta]

Originally Posted by elwesso

It would seem to me that the faster a tire wears out the more grip you get... Even though technology might be great, there comes a line where you can't get something for nothing. I'd have a hard time believing that the PSS can out perform AND last longer than the PS2s.. I believe they last longer because of the tread wear number, but if they out perform is a different story.

As finnegan posted its because of the different compounds. I know you can't believe vendors, but according to Michelin test data:

Road-holding on dry surfaces: Tests showed a 1.5-second gain on a 2,700-meter closed-circuit track.

Braking on dry surfaces: When decelerating from 100 km/h to a full stop, braking distance was shortened by 1.5 meters.

Road-holding on wet surfaces: Time was reduced by 2.5 seconds on a 4,100-meter closed-circuit track.

Braking on wet roads: When decelerating from 80 to 10 km/h, braking distance was shortened by 3 meters.

Total mileage on the track: 50% more laps.

Total mileage on the road: 10% greater distance.

[inTgr8r]

^yes, tire tech has come a long way

[davesz4mc]

I had 255 PS2's and now 275 PSS and I think the 255 PS2's had more traction and less slide.