WTB Z4 M Coupe

[AssassinGT]

Originally Posted by ruscoupe

It's a GREAT freeking alternative! Seriously, the 3.0si is a nice ride and the N52 is a fantastic engine. IIRC, it was (at the time anyway) one of best engines going (light, Ward's Top 10, etc). In Sports mode especially, it just feels crazy fast. I've had an E36 M3 and S52 M, and it's hands down quicker than both of those (albeit some would argue the S52 wasn't a true ///M engine, but I digress). I was open to the MZ4 and the 3.0si Coupe, and obviously I went with the latter, mostly because I found one helluva deal on one I couldn't pass up. But it didn't hurt any that I didn't want to be paying for valve adjustments and such anymore. Been there, done that.

I had the S54 in the old E46 M3 and while it's a badass engine, like others have already said it requires a little more maintenance (read: $$$). The S54 is solid, but so is the N52. And as far as power goes, the S54 is really only going to pull away from the N52 up there in the RPM's.

That said, I agree with what "that other guy" said. If you really want an ///M, get it. Because the last thing you want to deal with is buyer's remorse. I'll give the MZ4 this, cool looking hood, nice front end, and I damn near orgasm over quad exhausts.

But if you're looking for good reliability, enough power for most any 'real' need you're ever gonna have (unless you're a track junkie, then you always want the most you can $$$) and whose rarity is just the same as the MZ4 (except to those MZ4 owners that repeat production numbers in their prayers each night...lol), the Z4 3.0si might be just the car you're looking for.

I'm loving the little bitch myself.

Good luck in whatever you decide.

Rus

First off I just wanted to say Thank you to everyone for their overwhelming help and advice on this forum. I came from E46Fanatics a while back and I don't think anyone was nearly as courteous as the zposters here. To me; when you're buying a car, I take the enthusiast community of the car as a factor as well. It is nice to see that everyone here kind and helpful.

I hope I'm making a good choice. In about 20 minutes I'm going to go check out the M and see what's what. The only thing for me is that I'm going back to school again at Art Center Pasadena.. lol I don't know if anyone knows how the driving is around Pasadena but ideally my M would be a daily city car. So if the 3.0si would shine more in that enviornment that might be a big element in my purchase. (Especially because of the price I can get one with half the mileage)

I do my racing with Karting anyways so; if I were to track the car it would be ever once in a while. Probably just local autocross events.

When I had my E46 323Ci, all I ever did was fix it up and hope of driving an M3; so naturally I think I'm wanting to bite the bullet of an M this time around even if it might not suit me as realistically.

It's an awesome car! I love the heck out of it!

The other posts are pretty spot on with their advice. Finding a good Z4M in that price range might take a while. As others have said, the 3.0si is a pretty good alternative. It has lots of low end torque so it makes a great city car.

If you are willing to go over your budget a bit here is a beautiful z4m being sold by Nikki. The color is sooo nice in person, if I didn't already have my car I'd be all over this one.

Nikki's car definitely was one of the first that stood out to me; but with that price tag I'd probably gut myself. I'm stretching myself as it is with making it to 25k.

I'm also curious about the Navi screen because, well since it seems everyone has said it has become a useless screen.. is there anyway to mod it to use for a reverse camera? I had one installed on my E46 in trunk key slot and it was brilliant.

Well I'm off to go test drive the ///M so hopefully I'll like it. I probably won't pull the trigger until I can test drive a 3.0si as well.

[Finnegan]

If your primary use is city, the 3.0 is a bit better suited to that IMO. And there's plenty of machine there to play with on weekends or whatever.

And there's no reason you can't take the 3.0 to the track occasionally. Sure, you don't have the LSD, the larger brakes, or the higher redline, but I can't really see that getting in the way of some fun now and then. Besides, with karting experience (shifter karts I presume) you'll probably still be one of the faster guys on the track. I've seen several 3.0s on the track, and it's the guy behind the wheel not the car.

Oh, it's not that the nav is useless, just not very useful! Some have played with the reverse camera I think (haven't seen anything on this in awhile), and it's not a bad idea given the poor rearward visibility in the coupe.

[v3.0si]

Originally Posted by AssassinGT

When I had my E46 323Ci...

323ci=
168 bhp
181 lb-ft

3.0si =
255 bhp
220 lb-ft

a 3.0si is 87 bhp more than your 323ci, and has 39 lb-ft more torque, and gets better gas mileage, and i'm not biased.



///M =
333 bhp
269 lb-ft

but the ///M has more than both. except the fuel economy part. so choose wisely!

[l4zy]

Originally Posted by AssassinGT

First off I just wanted to say Thank you to everyone for their overwhelming help and advice on this forum. I came from E46Fanatics a while back and I don't think anyone was nearly as courteous as the zposters here. To me; when you're buying a car, I take the enthusiast community of the car as a factor as well. It is nice to see that everyone here kind and helpful.

Yeah...E46F is no longer what it used to be...

Originally Posted by AssassinGT

I'm also curious about the Navi screen because, well since it seems everyone has said it has become a useless screen.. is there anyway to mod it to use for a reverse camera? I had one installed on my E46 in trunk key slot and it was brilliant.

You can get this to add a backup camera

[AssassinGT]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

If your primary use is city, the 3.0 is a bit better suited to that IMO. And there's plenty of machine there to play with on weekends or whatever.

And there's no reason you can't take the 3.0 to the track occasionally. Sure, you don't have the LSD, the larger brakes, or the higher redline, but I can't really see that getting in the way of some fun now and then. Besides, with karting experience (shifter karts I presume) you'll probably still be one of the faster guys on the track. I've seen several 3.0s on the track, and it's the guy behind the wheel not the car.

Oh, it's not that the nav is useless, just not very useful! Some have played with the reverse camera I think (haven't seen anything on this in awhile), and it's not a bad idea given the poor rearward visibility in the coupe.

I think you might be right realistically about getting a 3.0. I just had a bad experience with that Silver M coupe from that dealer earlier. Well when I say bad, it was on the sales end and not the cars end. The vehicle was immaculate, clean carfax, leather was wrinkless, paint was flawless. Honestly I don't think I could of found a better M Coupe at that mileage. However I called the guy yesterday saying I had a budget of 25k and very strictly need to come close to that after tax and licensing. He said on the phone "No problem! I'm totally sure we can make that work blah blah."

Turns out the most he was willing to lower the price was $500.. Honestly it was a very shitty trip, because I should have got the finances out of the way first before driving and falling in love with the M. I'm starting to think that with a budget of 25k, trying to get a good M at that price is wishful thinking and I should probably get the 3.0si. I definitely like the feedback vibes I'm getting with people saying their 3.0 is doing the job. Everyone seems content with it; and I'm sure it will look just as good when I slam it on some 19's.

Finnegan - You'd be right, got into shifter karts not too long ago but I have a lot more exp with single speed. I'm mostly at Calspeed in Fontana or Adams in Riverside. I hope I can get a roof rack or something for the Z to shove a kart on it. (D: Since I'm too cheap to buy a trailer)

Dennis - That backup camera works awesome. Necessity mod! and yes E46fanatics is filled with a bunch of kids now.

v3.0si - Yes the figures look appealing, well anything does compared to a 323. I'll get back to you on the feel of it after I get myself into a 3.0 test drive. :]

[AssassinGT]

Originally Posted by l4zy

Yeah...E46F is no longer what it used to be...



You can get this to add a backup camera

I went to try and find where to buy it but upon further inspections, It looks like it's not available anymore? :[[[[

[l4zy]

Originally Posted by AssassinGT

I went to try and find where to buy it but upon further inspections, It looks like it's not available anymore? :[[[[

damn that sucks! i never got around to buying one for myself...

btw from that picture im pretty sure i know the dealer you went to. they have nice cars but try to sell to you at premium price...im not surprised it was a waste of time...

[AssassinGT]

Originally Posted by l4zy

damn that sucks! i never got around to buying one for myself...

btw from that picture im pretty sure i know the dealer you went to. they have nice cars but try to sell to you at premium price...im not surprised it was a waste of time...

Yeah I just wish the car wasn't so clean. It was in really good condition. Makes me almost WANT to pay for it. 63k miles for 28k with tax and licensing does seem high though. If that was the case and I didn't have to pay that stupid California Use tax, i'd have picked up Nikki's car.

[Gripster]

Originally Posted by AssassinGT

Another question is, for the PPI(Pre-purchase inspection), did you have a mechanic actually go with you to a dealer? Because seemingly in my situation it would happen that I'd be going to a used car dealer such as a carmax persay. Would they show some sort of documentation of them already getting a PPI do you think or is it better to demand that you get your own?

In my experience, most dealers will let you take the car away for a couple of hours to do a PPI if they believe you are serious. It typically means time off work and some patience, but they almost always pay for them self and have helped me avoid a couple turkeys. It is important to get the PPI done somewhere where the mechanic can get the car up on a lift and inspect for frame damage.

The best thing about a PPI is that it is nearly always "free". With my Z4, my PPI cost $125 and revealed old brake fluid, and old rotors. I used that info to negotiate even more money off the already negotiated price - which more than covered the PPI cost and offset the cost of repairs that I would have had to do anyway. You just have to make lots of noise about "deal breaker" "can't believe you didn't disclose this" "should have been put right" etc....

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Gripster

The best thing about a PPI is that it is nearly always "free". With my Z4, my PPI cost $125 and revealed old brake fluid, and old rotors. I used that info to negotiate even more money off the already negotiated price - which more than covered the PPI cost and offset the cost of repairs that I would have had to do anyway. You just have to make lots of noise about "deal breaker" "can't believe you didn't disclose this" "should have been put right" etc....

Excellent advice on the PPI and negotiation tactics.

[beta]

Originally Posted by AssassinGT

Yeah I just wish the car wasn't so clean. It was in really good condition. Makes me almost WANT to pay for it. 63k miles for 28k with tax and licensing does seem high though. If that was the case and I didn't have to pay that stupid California Use tax, i'd have picked up Nikki's car.

Unless you're not going to register it in CA, you're still going to have to pay that tax. Doesn't matter where you buy it from.

[AssassinGT]

Originally Posted by beta

Unless you're not going to register it in CA, you're still going to have to pay that tax. Doesn't matter where you buy it from.

Yeah, the state will charge you one way or another.

[Mtxzptlk]

CA has sales tax on vehicles regardless of non-private or private party sales?

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by Mtxzptlk

CA has sales tax on vehicles regardless of non-private or private party sales?

Yes. It's based on the sale price of the vehicle. New, used, doesn't matter, it's collected again and again on each sale ("use tax").

With a dealer, that's reported to the DMV on a standard form or electronically, and the tax is collected by dealer. In a private party sale as it's whatever the seller puts down as the price paid on the transfer of registration form they send to the DMV (or enter online). But the seller is not responsible for collecting or paying the taxes. Those are collected when you then register the car in your name. It's at that point the DMV collects the tax based on the sale price reported to it by the seller.

[Mtxzptlk]

That's terrible. NV has an exception for private party sales. Thank goodness. One of the few good things about this place.

[Finnegan]

Yes, it stinks, except for the state, which collects a ton more tax revenue, with an effective tax rate on the life of the vehicle of between 20% and 30% of its original value.

Let's say a car sells for 60K initially, @9.0% sales tax. Then it's bought and sold 6 times over its lifetime while it depreciates to 45k, 32k, 25K, 18K, and 8k. Initial sales tax was 5.4K, but with the repeated tax the total tax collected is nearly 17k! That's almost a 30% tax rate on the initial sales price of 60K!

[jophish17]

I bought my car in California - only state I know of that charges nonresident buyers sales tax even when it's not going to be registered in CA. Dealer gave me the option of driving it across the border to avoid paying CA tax... I just shipped the darn thing and took title in Georgia. Taxes in GA were about $750 less, too

[iStig]

assassin-
ive been watching this thread like a hawk and i am with you.
buying right now is killing me, ive seriously looked at 3 now and theyve all been perfect on paper. although when it comes down to the final bits and pieces, im finding the rarity of these toys a pita.

been finding plenty of m roadies with low miles/low price... i may end up going that route even though im not much of a soft top guy

[AssassinGT]

Originally Posted by iStig

assassin-
Ive been watching this thread like a hawk and i am with you.
buying right now is killing me, Ive seriously looked at 3 now and theyve all been perfect on paper. although when it comes down to the final bits and pieces, I'm finding the rarity of these toys a pita.

been finding plenty of m roadies with low miles/low price... i may end up going that route even though I'm not much of a soft top guy

Yeah, tell me about it. Sometimes when I'm blindly searching through the classifieds for them I see this amazing price and I [I]JUMP[I] at it thinking what a steal. Then its a soft top of course. haha; and Honestly when I see the coupe in person it turns heads very well; where as the soft top it seems everyone is used to it. I can't hate the roadster though, because when I test drove one, the open sky air is just fantastic. I only wish they had more aftermarket hardtops like the S2000.

I think your chances are better than mine honestly! Because Your region seems to be filled with more selection.. especially Florida. Quite a drive albeit, but better than from California.

[AssassinGT]

Originally Posted by jophish17

I bought my car in California - only state I know of that charges nonresident buyers sales tax even when it's not going to be registered in CA. Dealer gave me the option of driving it across the border to avoid paying CA tax... I just shipped the darn thing and took title in Georgia. Taxes in GA were about $750 less, too

LOL That dealer sounds shady but awesome. So far I'm not liking the experience of all these used car dealerships..

[AssassinGT]

I found a super clean one, the only problem is that it's a salvaged title with 20000 miles on it.. :[ What do you guys think about salvaged titles?

[Mtxzptlk]

What caused it to be a salvage title?

How good was the repair job?

Does resale value of the vehicle in the future concern you?