Z4MC to M2 comparison

[Top pup]

A few of you were asking on my thoughts between the two cars, so if you have any questions fire away and i'll do my best to answer.

[bananabun]

Originally Posted by Top pup

A few of you were asking on my thoughts between the two cars, so if you have any questions fire away and i'll do my best to answer.

Thanks for doing this.

Some of the things are obvious, such as torque availability and steering feel but what other nuances are there in driving both?

Have you tracked them both? I feel like the difference in wheel base and/or seating position will also be apparent between the two, but what else?

Do you prefer either car for certain roles?

Also, please explain why the Z4M is obviously the better car

[86Zed]

Having driven both on an identical canyon road I can chime in as well.

The most prominent difference is the ease at which speed comes in the M2. It's longer wheelbase and more supple suspension help the M2 eat swaths of pavement and allows for confident driving almost immediately. Unfortunately the electronic steering is no match for it's Z4M hydraulic counterpart and the auto-rev feature a nuisance. I also found the dash to be a little bleh, rumor is this has been fixed for the 2018 MY cars.

My wife and I also put 37K miles on a 228i as a daily driver and the M2 is an amazing platform for that plus a little fun on the weekends. Testing the waters for M2 CS dealer positions as it were... The 07 M coupe in my garage is special and provides sense of occasion and character in spades, but it does come with its fair share of headaches.

[Andyh1]

Originally Posted by 86Zed

The 07 M coupe in my garage is special and provides sense of occasion and character in spades, but it does come with its fair share of headaches.

Can you elaborate on the above? In comparison to .... M2?

I drove a M235i before I got my Z4MR, but the absolute raw feeling I get behind the wheel from my roadster is enough to hang on to. Keep in mind that I'm coming from a E36 M3 also, but the M3 lacks power from the US based S52 engine.

[86Zed]

Originally Posted by Andyh1

Can you elaborate on the above? In comparison to .... M2?

I drove a M235i before I got my Z4MR, but the absolute raw feeling I get behind the wheel from my roadster is enough to hang on to.

My experience in the M235i is limited, however my wife and I did share a 228i MSport and the M2 is a very different beast. Loads of work done on the suspension, transmission, engine and tuning bits.

Returning to my 07 M Coupe after the M2 experience I immediately noted the sheer size of the car, low slung seating position and more spartan interior. In the M2 you sit on top of the car, in the Z4M you are shoved deep into the cockpit and low to the ground. Both cars have good exhaust notes but the S54 engine provides some personality building torque towards an 8400 rpm redline and shouting quite loudly while it does it. Downshifts come at the behest of your own skill and the E86 M coupe platform tends to dart around a bit more, feeling less planted on the road. The M2 has power right away but it didn't deliver the full punch I was expecting and there is no need to work for it or finesse the car.

Don’t get me wrong, the M2 is a fantastic package of a car that better suits 90% of my driving needs. Hands down I would happily take the M2 to work, the track and for chores… but on the backroad or lazy Sunday drive the M Coupe reigns far superior.

[W///]

Originally Posted by 86Zed

My experience in the M235i is limited, however my wife and I did share a 228i MSport and the M2 is a very different beast. Loads of work done on the suspension, transmission, engine and tuning bits.

Returning to my 07 M Coupe after the M2 experience I immediately noted the sheer size of the car, low slung seating position and more spartan interior. In the M2 you sit on top of the car, in the Z4M you are shoved deep into the cockpit and low to the ground. Both cars have good exhaust notes but the S54 engine provides some personality building torque towards an 8400 rpm redline and shouting quite loudly while it does it. Downshifts come at the behest of your own skill and the E86 M coupe platform tends to dart around a bit more, feeling less planted on the road. The M2 has power right away but it didn't deliver the full punch I was expecting and there is no need to work for it or finesse the car.

Don’t get me wrong, the M2 is a fantastic package of a car that better suits 90% of my driving needs. Hands down I would happily take the M2 to work, the track and for chores… but on the backroad or lazy Sunday drive the M Coupe reigns far superior.

I really do think the Z4M is one of the most special feeling BMW ever made. The cock pit, the long hood, the seating position, the S54, the top down experience (Roadster only of course), the handling is amazing. I love that the car has a singular purpose.

If I want to go out purely for an entertaining drive, I'd grab the keys to my Z4MR before I do for my E36 and E92 M3.

P.S. if I could only have 1 car, I'd be a toss up between the E9x M3 and M2 (get to rent one for a day next month).

[Andyh1]

The Z4M definitely has a singular purpose..well said.
I look forward to my Saturday mornings in the roadster, just me and road ahead.

[Lucky1]

What about the throttle response? The S54 in these cars is so visceral and the throttle input so immediate. Not to mention complete confidence inspiring suspension that doesn't punish. Was going to throw this question out to the general boards but seeing as how this thread exists...does the M2 or any other BMW M since the S54 provide this "raw" experience as you put it? I didn't think I'd want these things in a daily driver but now after driving my Z4 M I crave them

[SDCoupe]

A friend of mine takes his M2 to the autocross and it is blazingly fast. In fact, he was the fastest bmw of the day beating every M3/M4 Z4 whatever of any type or modification. Even full on trailered e36 race cars. And his M2 is completely stock except for the RE71 tires. It's no comparison to my Z4M. I would measure us as equal drivers because at a electric cart track he beats me and I beat him. His 375hp (or whatever it is) has instant torque. It just hooks up and goes. Very very planted.

If I had one car, the M2 would be it. But the Z4M is so raw and real and non turbo and the hand built engine and just so very special. They don't make cars like this anymore or ever will. I love it.

[86Zed]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

What about the throttle response?

does the M2 or any other BMW M since the S54 provide this "raw" experience as you put it? I didn't think I'd want these things in a daily driver but now after driving my Z4 M I crave them

BMWs new series of tuned turbo engines is not to be overlooked. Yes they lack the luster and persona of the old NA engines but boy do they deliver the power immediately and in a hurry. The M2 was faster in nearly every situation, however it did not feel as fast. Cars like the Lotus, Miata and sometimes Z4M allow the sensation of speed without the speeding ticket possibility

Hydraulic steering definitely comprises some of that "raw" feeling and many folks argue the BMW 1M is the end of an era, even though it does not possess an SXX engine. Unfortunately I have yet to sample that car.

It should also be noted many folks prefer the older cars do to their DIY nature. Harder to work on some of these modern setups.

[Top pup]

A few thoughts on the M2.

The steering has almost no feel, occasionally you notice the tiniest bit of feedback but it's pretty much non existent, it is however very nicely weighted and accurate and there is enough feedback through the chassis that it's not an issue.

The chassis is every bit as good as the hype, it has great balance, and is really confidence inspiring.

The gear change is pretty decent (mines manual), much better than the Z4's and one of the stand out points jumping between the cars, the rev matching works very well and I find it unobtrusive, but why they didn't put a simple switch in to turn it off is beyond me.

The engine is where things go downhill a bit, it certainly produces the numbers but it's just a bit dull, certainly when you have a s54 to compare with. It sounds decent enough but just doesn't feel special, the turbo lag I guess isn't that bad but it's very noticeable jumping between the two. The extra torque is nice but you still have to keep it on the boil if you want to make the most of it. There is a little flourish of excitement from 5500rpm to 7000rpm but that's it.

Perhaps the most interesting difference is that the M2 only really starts to feel special when you drive it hard (but when you do it does feel extremely special and sorted) my Z4MC simply feels special all the time.

I guess I should also add I spent a good amount of time driving M4's and M2's before ordering/buying the M2, apart from some extra power the M4 fixes non of the M2 weak points whilst adding quite a few of it's own.

[wdb]

Do they pump fake sounds into the M2 cabin?

[KevinM]

Originally Posted by Top pup

A few thoughts on the M2.

The steering has almost no feel, occasionally you notice the tiniest bit of feedback but it's pretty much non existent, it is however very nicely weighted and accurate and there is enough feedback through the chassis that it's not an issue.

The chassis is every bit as good as the hype, it has great balance, and is really confidence inspiring.

The gear change is pretty decent (mines manual), much better than the Z4's and one of the stand out points jumping between the cars, the rev matching works very well and I find it unobtrusive, but why they didn't put a simple switch in to turn it off is beyond me.

The engine is where things go downhill a bit, it certainly produces the numbers but it's just a bit dull, certainly when you have a s54 to compare with. It sounds decent enough but just doesn't feel special, the turbo lag I guess isn't that bad but it's very noticeable jumping between the two. The extra torque is nice but you still have to keep it on the boil if you want to make the most of it. There is a little flourish of excitement from 5500rpm to 7000rpm but that's it.

Perhaps the most interesting difference is that the M2 only really starts to feel special when you drive it hard (but when you do it does feel extremely special and sorted) my Z4MC simply feels special all the time.

I guess I should also add I spent a good amount of time driving M4's and M2's before ordering/buying the M2, apart from some extra power the M4 fixes non of the M2 weak points whilst adding quite a few of it's own.

I don't disagree with many of your points. I will say I'm happy with my M3's steering although the Z4M's is a world apart to be sure. For a DD, I love the S55, which is probably similar to the N55 in the M2. The torque is always there and driving the M3 is much more like driving my E39 M5 in that respect. All that said, for an actual fun/weekend drive, the Z4M is much more engaging and when you have the opportunity to really wring out the S54, well...you guys know.

I guess most telling is that I'll likey replace the M3 with another DD in a few years, while the Z4MC (and my M5) will always be permanent residents of my garage.

[Top pup]

Originally Posted by KevinM

I don't disagree with many of your points. I will say I'm happy with my M3's steering although the Z4M's is a world apart to be sure. For a DD, I love the S55, which is probably similar to the N55 in the M2. The torque is always there and driving the M3 is much more like driving my E39 M5 in that respect. All that said, for an actual fun/weekend drive, the Z4M is much more engaging and when you have the opportunity to really wring out the S54, well...you guys know.

I guess most telling is that I'll likey replace the M3 with another DD in a few years, while the Z4MC (and my M5) will always be permanent residents of my garage.

It's weird, the steering in the M3, M4 and M2 is the same system and obviously both cars use the same basic suspension, however the M2 just feels more confidence inspiring somehow. Perhaps it's not that the steering is better but maybe there's more feedback through the chassis.

I have no idea how long I will have the M2, but I think I will either keep the M2 for ages or upgrade to the M2CS if it hits it's potential.

Similar to yourself my Z4MC is going nowhere.

[wdb]

I just purchased a Z4MC after driving a Z4C 3.0si for a couple of years. It's only been a few days but difference is more than I imagined. The 3.0si can snarl when pushed but can be a sweetheart too. The M feels like a coiled snake -- on the edge all the time. It's a very exciting, very visceral experience. But I'm wondering whether it wears thin after a while. I've done 12-hour trips in the 3.0si without feeling the need to take a break from it. Will the M let me do that?

We're going to take it on a long weekend driving trip early next month, meeting up with a bunch of other Z cars. That should tell the tale. In the meantime I sure will enjoy my day trips.

[W///]

Originally Posted by wdb

I just purchased a Z4MC after driving a Z4C 3.0si for a couple of years. It's only been a few days but difference is more than I imagined. The 3.0si can snarl when pushed but can be a sweetheart too. The M feels like a coiled snake -- on the edge all the time. It's a very exciting, very visceral experience. But I'm wondering whether it wears thin after a while. I've done 12-hour trips in the 3.0si without feeling the need to take a break from it. Will the M let me do that?

We're going to take it on a long weekend driving trip early next month, meeting up with a bunch of other Z cars. That should tell the tale. In the meantime I sure will enjoy my day trips.

12 hours would be brutal. I picked up mine from Cleveland Ohio and drove it back to SC over 2 days. That was pretty tiring.

But I'm ok with it, it fills the job of being a weekend car perfectly IMO

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by wdb

I just purchased a Z4MC after driving a Z4C 3.0si for a couple of years. It's only been a few days but difference is more than I imagined. The 3.0si can snarl when pushed but can be a sweetheart too. The M feels like a coiled snake -- on the edge all the time. It's a very exciting, very visceral experience. But I'm wondering whether it wears thin after a while. I've done 12-hour trips in the 3.0si without feeling the need to take a break from it. Will the M let me do that?

We're going to take it on a long weekend driving trip early next month, meeting up with a bunch of other Z cars. That should tell the tale. In the meantime I sure will enjoy my day trips.

Are you referring to the nature of the engine/throttle or the suspension/ride quality? I find the engine had a Jekyll and Hyde personality where it can indeed be driven slow and smoothly with little fanfare/noise as my Dad the Sunday driver has proven As for ride quality etc its all personal preference. I've driven it all day on quality highway roads and felt "ok" (not as great as I do after driving my 128i) but I'd have no problem driving it for 12 hours with breaks as long as the road wasn't rough. Rough roads would be unbearable over even just short distances however. I'm in my 30's though, smaller and generally don't have any physical problems like with my legs, knees or back.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Are you referring to the nature of the engine/throttle or the suspension/ride quality? I find the engine had a Jekyll and Hyde personality where it can indeed be driven slow and smoothly with little fanfare/noise as my Dad the Sunday driver has proven As for ride quality etc its all personal preference. I've driven it all day on quality highway roads and felt "ok" (not as great as I do after driving my 128i) but I'd have no problem driving it for 12 hours with breaks as long as the road wasn't rough. Rough roads would be unbearable over even just short distances however. I'm in my 30's though, smaller and generally don't have any physical problems like with my legs, knees or back.

I guessed we must have a higher tolerance of pain than most people

I have done numerous road trips in the MC without issues - some roads are smooth, most not so much. I have done numerous 5-day+ and 10-day+ long road trips, and feels fine at the end of the day. I'm in my late 40's I would like to continue taking the MC on road trips until I can find a fun 4-door sport sedan that has a spare tire (I feel like I'm rolling the dice in the MC on long road trips without a spare). Feel free to help me find my road trip replacement by chiming in on this thread => http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1410027

[W///]

Originally Posted by XMetal

I guessed we must have a higher tolerance of pain than most people

I have done numerous road trips in the MC without issues - some roads are smooth, most not so much. I have done numerous 5-day+ and 10-day+ long road trips, and feels fine at the end of the day. I'm in my late 40's I would like to continue taking the MC on road trips until I can find a fun 4-door sport sedan that has a spare tire (I feel like I'm rolling the dice in the MC on long road trips without a spare). Feel free to help me find my road trip replacement by chiming in on this thread => http://www.zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1410027

I have a high pain tolerance as I DDed an E36 M3 that had coilovers set on full stiff (softened now).

Regarding the Z, it must really depend on the roads. Because going through Ohio felt like I was riding a wild bull the entire time.

Regarding your new car option, is it to replace or to add to the Z4MC?

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by W///

I have a high pain tolerance as I DDed an E36 M3 that had coilovers set on full stiff (softened now).

Regarding the Z, it must really depend on the roads. Because going through Ohio felt like I was riding a wild bull the entire time.

Regarding your new car option, is it to replace or to add to the Z4MC?

Addition - The Z4MC will never get sold The new car would be daily driven and takes over the longer road trip duty - hopefully, something nearly as fun as the MC

[wdb]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

Are you referring to the nature of the engine/throttle or the suspension/ride quality?

Engine/throttle mostly. MY 3.0si has M Sport suspension so there's very little difference between the two in that regard.

[Lucky1]

Originally Posted by wdb

Engine/throttle mostly. MY 3.0si has M Sport suspension so there's very little difference between the two in that regard.

You'll be perfectly fine, just don't use the SPORT button which will keep the throttle response tame. In really severe stop and go traffic the clutch is a little stiffer than my 128i and thus less comfortable for sure in that regard but the throttle and gearing can be managed to keep the car very docile and relaxed. If its a highway trip you can just leave it in 6th gear and even turn on cruise control, problem solved