HPF feramic stage 1 clutch for Z4M

[tikamak]

Hi folks, anyone ever use this ?

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/part..._Stage_1/18336

I need a review or an opinion, i can't stand the jerkiness of my stock clutch anymore and it is driving me crazy.
everytime it jerks i start thinking that there's something wrong with my transmission, Mdiff.

I still have the CDV that should be removed soon, but that is a seperate problem.

[Beedub]

nice... didnt realise this was out as yet..... these support 700 wheel hp and i believe are meant to be a useable as a stock clutch.....

OP id just like to say my stock clutch is perfect, no grabbiness, no jerkyness.... very smooth and is handling every drop of performance that 500hp offers!! CDV on these cars makes little to no difference imo..... i think the drivetain on my z4m is really nice, its a car i cant wait to drive!!

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by tikamak

Hi folks, anyone ever use this ?

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/part..._Stage_1/18336

I need a review or an opinion, i can't stand the jerkiness of my stock clutch anymore and it is driving me crazy.
everytime it jerks i start thinking that there's something wrong with my transmission, Mdiff.

I still have the CDV that should be removed soon, but that is a seperate problem.

It's not the clutch, sorry.

[Beedub]

Originally Posted by O-cha

It's not the clutch, sorry.

i agree!!

[Rated M Roadster]

Originally Posted by tikamak

I need a review or an opinion, i can't stand the jerkiness of my stock clutch anymore and it is driving me crazy.
everytime it jerks i start thinking that there's something wrong with my transmission, Mdiff.

I still have the CDV that should be removed soon, but that is a seperate problem.

The first time driving a manual is harder for some. The jerkiness will get better once you learn to use the clutch... Haha

Don't attribute a lack of ability to a problem with the car.

[Z4-VILLA]

damn you guys are harsh....reminds me of when I first came one here asking about clutch techniques.
Now Heel Toe MF!!!!

[Finnegan]

^LOL

FWIW, things can be jerky going 1st to 2nd if the revs drop while shifting (same 2nd to 3rd, but much less so). This is worse with the A/C on, and if you shift real slowly (revs have time to drop more).

If that's what you're describing, keep the revs up to very close to where they'll end up once the next gear is fully engaged. Do that by feeding in some throttle when shifting rather than letting off the throttle completely. Sort of an upshift "heel/toe" thing.

If it's downshifting, then like Villalona says, heel/toe it.

If it's not related to the above, then describe the issue a bit more fully.

at the first time I drove a Z4M--it was like being 16 and trying to drive my first MT all over again.

[tikamak]

I drive pretty well, its just that when slipping the clutch for a smooth take off,it either grabs too much and chirp the tyres or stalls the engine depending on my throttle or slipping too much and the car stays stationary then grabs all of a sudden and jerks.

A clutch bleed and fluid change and CDV delete might cure my problem.

One more thing when shifting 1st to 2nd really fast,2nd gear feels the car is hitting a train and the tyres are chirping like crazy.

[Finnegan]

Originally Posted by tikamak

I drive pretty well, its just that when slipping the clutch for a smooth take off,it either grabs too much and chirp the tyres or stalls the engine depending on my throttle or slipping too much and the car stays stationary then grabs all of a sudden and jerks.

A clutch bleed and fluid change and CDV delete might cure my problem.

One more thing when shifting 1st to 2nd really fast,2nd gear feels the car is hitting a train and the tyres are chirping like crazy.

Never had issues like that with my stock clutch, starting out in first is pretty smooth. It sounds like the engagement point is wandering and bit different each time you start off. I think you may be on to something with the fluid change, bleed, and CDV delete (although my money would be on the fluid change and bleed in this case, and I'm a CDV delete fan).

[tikamak]

Some days there are no problems and the clutch is a dream especially when the car has been garaged for a couple of days and other days the clutch seems a little bit softer than usual.

[Andrew@LutzPerformance]

Hey guys, if you have any questions about these kits please feel free to ask, we have installed quite a few HPF clutches here at the shop as we are one of the biggest HPF Dealers/Installers!

we also stock and offer the best pricing on any HPF product!

Any questions please just shoot my way, Andrew@lutzperformance.com!

Thanks!

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by tikamak

I drive pretty well, its just that when slipping the clutch for a smooth take off,it either grabs too much and chirp the tyres or stalls the engine depending on my throttle or slipping too much and the car stays stationary then grabs all of a sudden and jerks.

A clutch bleed and fluid change and CDV delete might cure my problem.

One more thing when shifting 1st to 2nd really fast,2nd gear feels the car is hitting a train and the tyres are chirping like crazy.

Right, it's you, or there's a problem. This is one of the easiest and smoothest clutches in BMWs.

[jpapanas]

I think the jerky 1st to 2nd shift is because of the CDV - according to this:
Theory of Operation - What is a CDV?

Try deleting or installing a modifed CDV before replacing the clutch...

[tikamak]

Originally Posted by O-cha

Right, it's you, or there's a problem. This is one of the easiest and smoothest clutches in BMWs.

Is there a third option? it will be the car or me, unless you believe in fairies of the clutch world?

anyway to get back to the problem (or maybe a different problem)
@Andrew@LutzPerformance:
I am experiencing a little bit of drive train play, as in the following:
1- put 1st gear
2- take off normally to 3000 RPM
3- remove your foot from the throttle

The car jerks back and forth, again if you put down your foot on the throttle, it will jerk in the opposite way.
generally saying, quick throttle inputs make you hear clunks in the drive train especially when you're on and off the throttle in traffic.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this issue first.

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by tikamak

Is there a third option? it will be the car or me, unless you believe in fairies of the clutch world?

anyway to get back to the problem (or maybe a different problem)
@Andrew@LutzPerformance:
I am experiencing a little bit of drive train play, as in the following:
1- put 1st gear
2- take off normally to 3000 RPM
3- remove your foot from the throttle

The car jerks back and forth, again if you put down your foot on the throttle, it will jerk in the opposite way.
generally saying, quick throttle inputs make you hear clunks in the drive train especially when you're on and off the throttle in traffic.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this issue first.

Yes, something wrong with the car, or it's you. There is no third option because there's nothing else that could cause it. If there was something wrong with the clutch, that would be part of the car.

FYI the scenarios you just described are not play in the tranny/driveline, quite the opposite. The M cars are built with much less play and give in the drive line, which result in rougher more abrupt load changes IE "jerkiness". Don't be so abrupt in your inputs. I can assure you this is normal.

If the clunks are from the rear and of a low tone (not a clank) they are likely from the differential, BMW could not get this right and it's either backlash or the viscous pump moving on its mounts. I call this "common" but not "normal".

And finally, the HPF clutches are fullface metallic clutches with significant increase in weight, switching to one when you don't need it is ill advised as it will make actually changing gears on the shifter rougher and harder/harder on the synchros. Wouldn't bother most people but seems like it would bother you.

[Andrew@LutzPerformance]

Originally Posted by tikamak

Is there a third option? it will be the car or me, unless you believe in fairies of the clutch world?

anyway to get back to the problem (or maybe a different problem)
@Andrew@LutzPerformance:
I am experiencing a little bit of drive train play, as in the following:
1- put 1st gear
2- take off normally to 3000 RPM
3- remove your foot from the throttle

The car jerks back and forth, again if you put down your foot on the throttle, it will jerk in the opposite way.
generally saying, quick throttle inputs make you hear clunks in the drive train especially when you're on and off the throttle in traffic.

I'd like to hear your opinion on this issue first.

Definitely sounds like something is not right with the drivetrain, did you do the install yourself or have a shop do it?

I would look into this right away, as it sounds like a center support issue on the drive-shaft, clutches WILL NOT cause the problem your describing at-least not in our experience and we have done at-least 150-200 clutches on all sorts of M's over the years.

Feel free to call us 813-949-3540 and I will gladly put my shop foreman on the phone and see if he can help you verbally!

Good luck! Let me know if I can be of any assistance

[O-cha]

He didn't install a clutch, he is complaining about the stock one, and what he's describing is 100% normal, and a center support bearing would not cause those "symptoms" anyway.

[tikamak]

Could it be that the clutch needs some sort of leveling along the drivetrain?

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by tikamak

Could it be that the clutch needs some sort of leveling along the drivetrain?

The only likely thing with the clutch is that your SA pressure plate has been bottomed out, but this would only happen is someone who didn't know what they were doing removed it.

Again, you're going to have to trust that it's normal, you haven't described anything abnormal that isn't attributed to improper technique.

How long have you had the car? BMW clutches are pretty "vague" it takes time to learn.

[tikamak]

I have the car since 1.5 years now, I've learned how to drive it pretty well.

Another question to bring the reality in this to you as you seem pretty determined to help me and i appreciate that:
"when you slip the clutch for a smooth slow take off, do you feel the clutch grinding and making a grinding sound like it's struggling to the biting point?
when you the clutch bites finally (depressing the clutch pedal on its way to fully depressed), do you feel that the car does a form of oscillatory movements until it stabilizes ?"

what i want someone to try in their car is try to take off smooth without letting the revs climb more than 1.1 k and releasing the clutch pedal slowly like there's a miss daisy in front of you not giving you room to accelerate, tell me if you experience the oscillating movement.

Just to note for everyone interested in this behavior that when the car is parked for 2-3 days or more, the first manipulating of the clutch seems to be extremely smooth and none of the above is experienced at all, only after slipping the clutch for a good deal of time in the traffic that this behavior is back as well as the next days after it if you drive the car.


please let me know if you need extra explanation.

[ga41]

Originally Posted by tikamak

what i want someone to try in their car is try to take off smooth without letting the revs climb more than 1.1 k and releasing the clutch pedal slowly like there's a miss daisy in front of you not giving you room to accelerate, tell me if you experience the oscillating movement.

This is how i usually take off in city driving and it's smooth with no kangarooing.

Perhaps try to video the problem and post it here?

[O-cha]

Originally Posted by tikamak

I have the car since 1.5 years now, I've learned how to drive it pretty well.

Another question to bring the reality in this to you as you seem pretty determined to help me and i appreciate that:
"when you slip the clutch for a smooth slow take off, do you feel the clutch grinding and making a grinding sound like it's struggling to the biting point?
when you the clutch bites finally (depressing the clutch pedal on its way to fully depressed), do you feel that the car does a form of oscillatory movements until it stabilizes ?"

what i want someone to try in their car is try to take off smooth without letting the revs climb more than 1.1 k and releasing the clutch pedal slowly like there's a miss daisy in front of you not giving you room to accelerate, tell me if you experience the oscillating movement.

Just to note for everyone interested in this behavior that when the car is parked for 2-3 days or more, the first manipulating of the clutch seems to be extremely smooth and none of the above is experienced at all, only after slipping the clutch for a good deal of time in the traffic that this behavior is back as well as the next days after it if you drive the car.


please let me know if you need extra explanation.

That quote about grinding, are you saying that's what your car is doing? The clutch should never make or feel like it's grinding. The part about oscillating still wouldn't be caused by the clutch itself, but if there is something wrong with your clutch making it grind and be extra bitey, the oscillations could just be a result of that.

That you say things get strange after slipping it a lot are also suggestive of something, as things change when clutches get hot. Sounds like you might be glazing the clutch over slipping it too much.

All this is very hard to explain in words though, and only guesses assuming what you call grinding is what I call grinding and so on. You will not get a for sure answer for this reason.