Installing JVT (eBay) Headers on Z4M (S54)

[wrh3]

Originally Posted by onebluemcm

Back on topic - if JVT's aren't available anymore, what is the next best low-dollar option again?

Originally Posted by wrh3

JVT is no longer available but these look like another option:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=798546

But if you were not worried about addressing some of the fitment issues as I did, you can find the same Chinese headers on eBay for under $100 shipped.....search for E46 M3 Headers.

[F360C]

Originally Posted by onebluemcm

This is admittedly off topic - I don't get the need or desire for 8400+ rpm redline in a stock engine. In Grand Am, Turner, FallLine, Automatic - all the big boys running the S54 topped them out at 8400, and this with fully bluprinted and balanced engines. I'd personally never exceed maybe 8100 in a stock engine, just too much unnecessary risk for a catastrophic engine failure.....

Back on topic - if JVT's aren't available anymore, what is the next best low-dollar option again?

Sorry I ment to say 8400rpm. Turner runs 8500rpm on stock S54s in SCCA T2. Is it good to run 8400rpm on a stock s54 all day long... no but I am not looking to run 8400rpm all day long. It is just for those certain cases where I am on track and a shift to another gear may be costly instead of just using the extra couple hundred rpm. I have 8200rpm now and I barely use it as is. It is only those odd couple occasions where it is faster for me to use the extra rpm then to swictch up a gear. Its just nice to know its there. I am actually thinking of doing titanium valve springs this spring. Worst case the motor blows and I go 3.4l stroker!

[Nate2046]

Originally Posted by Eccentric

whyd you remove them?

Only because I couldn't live with the SES light. I installed headers because of the assurances that the O-cha sim was legit. When that turned out to be a bust I decided to cut my losses and remove the headers and sim. I loved the sound of the JVT's so I bought a SS non-catted section 1. Hopefully that will give the sound without the headache of O2 sensor codes.

The JVT's are really nice for 1/8th the price of anything else. When I got them in the mail I couldn't believe how small the package was. My V8 conversion RX7 headers were 4 times the size and cheaper than any 'name brand' s54 headers.

[wrh3]

Well, the SES light came back on again tonight- it takes two "trips" to light up for the codes. I am under the impression I will have to pull the DME again and send back to ESS for recoding, for some reason the tuner doesn't know if I got the tune for headers or not even though it was clearly stated on the form and in several emails I had prior to sending my DME the first time. What a pain, hopefully it does not take three tries as someone here mentioned it took them to get a tune that worked. It took FIVE days to get my initial ESS response to this so to say I am frustrated with ESS at this point is an understatement. It never pays to be an early adopter......but the headers feel great :-)

[wrh3]

Spoke with Roman today and shipped the DME back tonight. Hopefully will have it back Saturday so I can do some testing over the weekend to see if the issue is resolved.

[F360C]

Originally Posted by wrh3

Spoke with Roman today and shipped the DME back tonight. Hopefully will have it back Saturday so I can do some testing over the weekend to see if the issue is resolved.

I hope everything gets fixed and your able to run without the check engine light

[wrh3]

Originally Posted by F360C

I hope everything gets fixed and your able to run without the check engine light

Thanks, me too. I don't really care about the light so much as I care about what the computer does when it thinks the cats are not working......

[wrh3]

Well, the DME left ESS today but without them checking the SAT delivery box so it looks like Monday before I'll know if this is the last time I have to pay to ship the DME to ESS

Hopefully it works and is worth the frustration. I wonder how the AA software is for our car.......

http://store.activeautowerke.com/act...ware-p139.aspx

[kav]

I'm running the ESS tune (with the secondary 02s off) and a set of Euro M3 catless headers. I also kept getting the cat insuf. code. I talked to ESS a few times but they wanted me to get the BMW dealer to get the actual BMW error codes. I could not live with the CEL on the dash, so I would always clear the code but it would never happen at a time I could get to the dealership.

In the end, I relocated my 02 sensors behind the secondary cat and this fixed my problems. No CEL.

I'm not convinced that my 02 sensors are off as requested. I'm curious to hear how things work with you new tune.

Keep us posted.

[wrh3]

Originally Posted by kav

I'm running the ESS tune (with the secondary 02s off) and a set of Euro M3 catless headers. I also kept getting the cat insuf. code. I talked to ESS a few times but they wanted me to get the BMW dealer to get the actual BMW error codes. I could not live with the CEL on the dash, so I would always clear the code but it would never happen at a time I could get to the dealership.

I had the same request so the last time I got codes I did not clear them, I figured they would have a way to read them on their end since I was already out money for shipping the DME back for their problem.

In the end, I relocated my 02 sensors behind the secondary cat and this fixed my problems. No CEL.

This will be my next move, but really hate to do that as it was the primary reason I bought the tune from them. Then I would want to send the DME back to turn the post cat O2s on so that the readiness codes for the post cat O2s would work and get to go through this fun all over again.

I'm not convinced that my 02 sensors are off as requested. I'm curious to hear how things work with you new tune.

Keep us posted.

Will do, hopefully I'll have good news and ESS can deliver as promised when we bought the tune.

I'm not quite sure what has happened over there at ESS but my initial buying experience was GREAT- good communication from Todd/Dawn and responsive to questions, usually within the hour but at a minimum same day. Now you can call and leave voicemail, send emails, send PMs and you have a 10% chance of receiving a response. If I called and got someone to pick up the phone, that was the only contact I had other than some PM responses before I installed the headers. I guess business must be good and they can ignore providing customer service now to their "old" customers. Thing is, I was on a path to buy an SC for this car and potentially start on the M3....not sure I would spend that kind of money at this point with them, hopefully AA will come out with some comparable products and deliver on the service side.

[inTgr8r]

^ that's not good to hear about declining service Bill.

[krnnerdboy]

ess now sends out programmers in lieu of sending the DME's in. If this doesn't work I would ask for a programmer so you can upload it yourself and remove it when wanted...that sounds fair

PM rom3n, they are pretty busy with the e9*M, but he will get back to you

[mousitch]

Sounds like a similar situation that I had with them. I too was moving toward a SC package with them also. Makes ya think.

[wrh3]

Roman is who I primarily dealt with other than some limited contact with Todd and AJ. I understand they might be busy but the key in business is relationships and managing expectations. If they had told me I wouldn't have the DME until Monday, I would be unhappy but less than when told it would be here today and it didn't show up. I thought they were relatively quick turning the DME recoding around, there Thursday afternoon and I had tracking info and a note from Roman Friday afternoon saying it would be here today.

Roman provided next day PM responses on some questions I had about the O2 sensors prior to the header installation, it was not until I started throwing codes I had contact issues.

I wasn't real excited about having to pay to ship the DME back when it was their code that didn't deliver either, most companies send out call tags when it is their issue and he was quick to let me know that return shipping would not be covered if it was not an issue related to their code- understood but I thought the customer was assumed right until proven otherwise, what else could it be with the codes I was getting?

Had I requested a code change this might all be a non-issue, but it was for a fix for a product I bought two years ago. I understand being an early adopter has its risks but.......

[Diokaef]

Supersprint headers on the Z4M is known to have a bad position and angle to the O2 Sensor and this causes the tune to not work, Many people with Supersprint headers can't ever turn the O2 sensor off because of that. It's not because the tuning company don't know how, but because of the headers, If you change the headers to AA you should not have a Light even if you don't change anything on the tune that was done. Supersprint headers or copies of it will always have problems with this aspect. (Friends in Rome and Japan that use the headers also have problems like this one).

I'm not promoting AA, ESS or saying bad things of SS, This are just facts.

[F360C]

Originally Posted by Diokaef

Supersprint headers on the Z4M is known to have a bad position and angle to the O2 Sensor and this causes the tune to not work, Many people with Supersprint headers can't ever turn the O2 sensor off because of that. It's not because the tuning company don't know how, but because of the headers, If you change the headers to AA you should not have a Light even if you don't change anything on the tune that was done. Supersprint headers or copies of it will always have problems with this aspect. (Friends in Rome and Japan that use the headers also have problems like this one).

I'm not promoting AA, ESS or saying bad things of SS, This are just facts.

Both my brother and I have the ebay copies of SuperSprint headers along with the ESS tune and neither of us have a check engine light. Infact the first person to ever get the ESS header tune was a guy named "tintboy" on this forum and he also had the SuperSprint headers and didn't get a check engine light. I am also on my second set of JVT SuperSprint header copies and I didnt get a check engine light with this set or the first set I had on the car. This is forsure a programming issue.

[Diokaef]

Originally Posted by F360C

Both my brother and I have the ebay copies of SuperSprint headers along with the ESS tune and neither of us have a check engine light. Infact the first person to ever get the ESS header tune was a guy named "tintboy" on this forum and he also had the SuperSprint headers and didn't get a check engine light. I am also on my second set of JVT SuperSprint header copies and I didnt get a check engine light with this set or the first set I had on the car. This is forsure a programming issue.

But would not seams odd that ESS unlearn how to do it? or is way more acceptable that a small difference in O2 placement put's off the tune range?

[F360C]

Originally Posted by Diokaef

But would not seams odd that ESS unlearn how to do it? or is way more acceptable that a small difference in O2 placement put's off the tune range?

I don't think they unlearned it but instead are not putting the correct flash on the car. My first set of JVT SS copies I put on my car didn't cause a check engine light. I then didn't like the placement of the 02 sensors on the headers so I took them off and had a shop move the sensors to a totally different position. I still didn't get a check engine light. I then thought that I may have a leak in the merge collector of my headers so I bought another set of JVT headers that had a totally different 02 sensor placement and put those on. Still I don't have a check engine light. Two other owners have different brand headers and they don't have check engine lights either. One owner tintboy has the really cheap ebay no name headers and the other owner has real SS headers and he doesn't have a check engine light either. I think this shows that the excuse of 02 sensor placement is just that... an excuse! I think it is just ESS's way of passing the blame off to the owner instead of fixing the mistake they made. Only time will tell though because once whr3 gets his DME back we should know if it was a tuning mistake or not. I really hope this is not the case though because I have always held ESS in very high regard.

[Diokaef]

My statement has no use of ESS information, I don't have ESS tune on my car and people that I know similar problem. That is a true fact of the placement alone, yes you can get luck with the placement of the O2 sensor but it does not take away the problem with placement, because even other companies that don't have any problem with some headers have problems with other.

[Diokaef]

A mistake by ESS can occur as well, people are not perfect, and if was corrected then the problem is solved, that does not make a company bad.

[pokeybritches]

I was under the impression if you turn off your secondary O2s, it doesn't matter where they are placed because their readings are no longer used. You could zip tie them together if you wanted. Is this not the case?

[wrh3]

Originally Posted by pokeybritches

I was under the impression if you turn off your secondary O2s, it doesn't matter where they are placed because their readings are no longer used. You could zip tie them together if you wanted. Is this not the case?

That was my question, Roman really was not sure but thought they had to be installed anyway so that the heater signal would be present. I don't think the O2s are turned off completely but turned down so that the delta between pre-cat and post-cat satisfies the cat efficiency requirements in the DME.

I am pretty sure that I did not have the header tune or it was wrong and has been changed, they did reflash my DME.....we'll see if it works tomorrow.